ghosts

[Thig Lyfe]

are they real

[plbrdude]

Originally Posted by MOhillbilly

Purgatory isn't Christian.

glad you pointed that out, never have seen a reference to that in the Bible.

[plbrdude]

Originally Posted by Kaepernick

Yes it does. In order for ghosts to exist under Christian theology taken from the Bible, either God would have to misplace souls on earth by accident or God would have to allow animated souls with Free Will to roam earth on purpose. There is absolutly no reference to either possiblity in the Bible.

The best I can figure from my reading of the bible is that souls of the dead sleep until the final judgment day. Even Jesus was attributed to saying "Lazarus sleeps" in reference to Lazarus being dead.

Hell, even Christ's divine soul was inanimate for 3 days, only appearing to his followers after his resurrection, and that was in body not as a ghost. Doubting Thomas actually felt the holes in his hands and feet - so Christ returned in flesh form resurrected, not as a ghost.

"Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."- Luke 24:36-39

Hey, I'm not asking you not to believe in ghosts. I am only saying a belief in ghosts is directly opposed to Christian theology. There is no wiggle room for believing in Christ and believing in ghosts. The bible is pretty clear on that. Dead souls sleep or are in stasis pending Christ's 2nd coming. They aren't running around loose on earth. Ghosts are not possible under any reading of Christian theology.

That is why I directed my question to Christians. Either there are no ghosts or there is no God and the bible is all made up. It can't be any other way.

Don't blame me. I didn't write the bible.

Actually the Greek word for ghost is also the word for spirit.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Originally Posted by plbrdude

glad you pointed that out, never have seen a reference to that in the Bible.

Not every thing Christian is explicitly in the Bible. Good luck finding the word Trinity...yet all Christians believe in it. Purgatory is in the Bible. Just not explicitly.

As for Ghosts...I'm a fence rider. I do believe that none of that shit is to be messed with. Ouija boards, seances, etc. But I do believe that God sends us messages, in the form of angels. I think more often, they are demons. I believe that once we die, we go to purgation (cleansing) while we await heaven, or we go straight to hell. Any visitations we have from the beyond are either a blessing or a curse, and it takes discernment to figure out which.

Either way, it's nothing to trifle with. You'd never find me on a "ghost hunt"...

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by plbrdude

glad you pointed that out, never have seen a reference to that in the Bible.

no, but the bible acknowledges, Angels, evil angels and the Supernatural. I just recently read that in my study bible i got.

[plbrdude]

Originally Posted by InChiefsHell

Not every thing Christian is explicitly in the Bible. Good luck finding the word Trinity...yet all Christians believe in it. Purgatory is in the Bible. Just not explicitly.

As for Ghosts...I'm a fence rider. I do believe that none of that shit is to be messed with. Ouija boards, seances, etc. But I do believe that God sends us messages, in the form of angels. I think more often, they are demons. I believe that once we die, we go to purgation (cleansing) while we await heaven, or we go straight to hell. Any visitations we have from the beyond are either a blessing or a curse, and it takes discernment to figure out which.

Either way, it's nothing to trifle with. You'd never find me on a "ghost hunt"...

not all Christians believe in the trinity. on the ghost thing i pretty much agree with what you're saying there. angels are called ministering spirits. i don't agree with the purgatory thing though, Paul wrote that to be absent from the body was to be present with the Lord, either that or we get a long peaceful nap awaiting to be called into His presence.

[warpaint*]

Originally Posted by InChiefsHell

Not every thing Christian is explicitly in the Bible. Good luck finding the word Trinity...yet all Christians believe in it. Purgatory is in the Bible. Just not explicitly.

As for Ghosts...I'm a fence rider. I do believe that none of that shit is to be messed with. Ouija boards, seances, etc. But I do believe that God sends us messages, in the form of angels. I think more often, they are demons. I believe that once we die, we go to purgation (cleansing) while we await heaven, or we go straight to hell. Any visitations we have from the beyond are either a blessing or a curse, and it takes discernment to figure out which.

Either way, it's nothing to trifle with. You'd never find me on a "ghost hunt"...

No it isn't but the doctrine is derived from the Bible itself as the Bible in no uncertain terms claims the following which encompasses the doctrine of the trinity:
1. There is only one God.
2. God the Father is God.
3. Jesus is God.
4. The Holy Ghost or Spirit is God.
5. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons.

Purgatory OTOH as a word and doctrinal principle in general isn't anywhere in the Bible.

The word itself was first used I think in the 12th century although elements of the principles of going through some sort of transition between earth and heaven date further back. The difference here is they are not Biblical.

I agree that there are things not written in the Bible that are true and also possibly true so long as they don't contradict anything in God's word.

As for ghosts...don't believe in them. When was the last time a ghost haunted a highly populated office building or police station or shopping mall and appeared to someone at 2:45pm. No...it's always the middle of the night, in some dilapidated shack that's falling apart with a dearth of witnesses. As for the people that see stuff, it's not that I necessarily think they're lying or are crazy (I don't necessarily), I just think they are subconsciously hallucinating.

As for people that testify to those experiences, I respect their POV to disagree as it's their personal experience. I just think the reality is the result of something else.

I have substituted "Christian" with "Biblical" b/c the former is used to encompass a wide variety of things over time that are not necessarily rooted in God's word.

[warpaint*]

Furthermore, I agree that messing w/ Ouija boards or other things of the like is asking for trouble b/c I firmly believe demonic forces are real and present in the world. But those aren't ghosts and such belief is Biblical.

[KC native]

Lol @ the posters trying to make this a serious thread.

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by warpaint*

Furthermore, I agree that messing w/ Ouija boards or other things of the like is asking for trouble b/c I firmly believe demonic forces are real and present in the world. But those aren't ghosts and such belief is Biblical.

I used a Ouija board once and never again...**** that...

[Mother****erJones]

Got stoned and this thread for some reason creeped me the **** out

[InChiefsHeaven]

Purgatory OTOH as a word and doctrinal principle in general isn't anywhere in the Bible.

The word itself was first used I think in the 12th century although elements of the principles of going through some sort of transition between earth and heaven date further back. The difference here is they are not Biblical.

I agree that there are things not written in the Bible that are true and also possibly true so long as they don't contradict anything in God's word.

I disagree that purgutory is not Biblical. I hate to cut and paste, but this is a relatively short exerpt from Catholic.com:

Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering ("fire") there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.

Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: "In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.

More here:

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/purgatory

[bevischief]

DC 3,2,1

[InChiefsHeaven]

Originally Posted by bevischief

DC 3,2,1

Sorry, sorry. Won't happen again...

[AdumbGuy]

It doesn't matter if there are ghosts or not. Because even if there are, Frank Zombo will eat said ghosts and shit out touchdowns.

Frank Zombo.

Frank William Zombo the 3rd.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Mother****erJones

Got stoned and this thread for some reason creeped me the **** out

How about now?