Greg Williams - the obvious choice - Page 2

B_Ambuehl · 12-28-2005, 12:20 PM

I blasted on Gregg Williams last week and I still don't think he's as good of an option at head coach as Saunders, but with that not sounding like much of a possiblity, it's starting to look like it's gonna come down to Herm, Greg Williams, Tim Lewis, Stoops, and Pete Carroll.

If Stoops is named head coach I won't be able to do anything but laugh. None of his schemes have held up when he's gone against anyone other then Mack Brown. I don't think Carroll wants to leave USC and there's really nothing X and O wise he carries that makes him much of a wanted man in the NFL that I see.....other then his college record and the fact that he has some unsuccessful head coaching experience.

That leaves Tim Lewis, Herm, and Greg Williams.

I already have a thread dedicated as to why I think Tim Lewis is a poor choice. He's touted as a defensive guru but his defense is over-rated and has been gutted by every AFC west team he's faced this year giving up around 400 yards and over 150 yards on the ground in each one. As KC head coach he'll have 8 games each year against AFC west opponents and what his defense has been able to do so far against that division is terrible.

Herm is coveted entirely because he's a Rah Rah guy. Teams covet him because he talks a good game, has entertaining press conferences, and lets his players play and all that stuff. He's not an X's and O's guy whatsoever and leaves that entirely up to his coordinators. Talk is good but doesn't win football games.

That leaves Greg Williams. I looked at the stats and rewatched some games of his defense vs the AFC west this year and was impressed. The Skins are 0-4 in those football games but it's definitely not on account of his defense. His defense was dominating in most of those games. Only one of those 4 games has the opposition totaled more then 300 yards and averaged more then 3.5 yards per carry on the ground. They gave up less then 250 total yards to Denver and less then 3 yards per rush. Held KC to under 300 yards and less then 4 yards per rush. Ditto for Oakland. The only team that had some success was San Diego and the stats were schewed because the game went into overtime and they gave up one big play. That defense has played great all year and really they don't have many high profile athletes on that defensive football team. "I" accused the scheme of maybe being overly complicated but that's not as bad as the players in KC accusing Guns' scheme of being too complicated. Regardless, the schemes are both aggressive and share some similarities bit the main difference appears to be one obviously doesn't work and one does.

One interesting tidbit of info I heard was that Williams was actually DVs preferred choice at defensive coordinator after the '03 season. Who knows how things would've turned out if he had been running this KC defense the last 2 years instead of Gunther Cunningham.

The only weakness of the Williams' defense is they play with their back to the quarterback (man to man) and don't force many turnovers. One benefit of the cover 2 scheme (indy, chicago) is defenders are always facing the quarterback and thus cause a lot of turnovers. However, the cover 2 scheme requires a front 4 that can get pressure on the quarterback or it will be gutted.

Williams' was unsuccessful as head coach of Buffalo but I recently saw an interview with Mike Nolan that made me think he has been itching for the opportunity and will really be successful his second time around. As soon as Nolan was hired as the 49ers head coach, Williams met with him and talked for him for 2 hours about the things he would do over if he was awarded another head coaching position. The most important thing he said was to get the right people as coordinators. Management tries to force people into naming coordinators as soon as possible but he emphasized the importance of being 100% sure that you have the right guys.

So anyway, of the names that have been thrown around so far I'd have to consider Williams my favorite.

htismaqe · 12-28-2005, 01:36 PM

So Tim Lewis is 2-1 vs. the AFC West and he's a bad choice, but Gregg Williams is a good choice even though he's 0-4.

I see what the deal is.

People care more about yardage than winning. Vermeil might as well stay. That's all he cares about too.

FringeNC · 12-28-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gochiefs

That's hilarious. Have you ever watched one of his PC's? It's so easy to push his buttons, especially when the Jets are losing. He's a nutcase.

Watching Herm's press conferences would be the biggest positive of getting him.

FringeNC · 12-28-2005, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

So Tim Lewis is 2-1 vs. the AFC West and he's a bad choice, but Gregg Williams is a good choice even though he's 0-4.

I see what the deal is.

People care more about yardage than winning. Vermeil might as well stay. That's all he cares about too.

And you're the type of guy to blame the pitcher when he loses 1-0.

Hammock Parties · 12-28-2005, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

So Tim Lewis is 2-1 vs. the AFC West and he's a bad choice, but Gregg Williams is a good choice even though he's 0-4.

I see what the deal is.

People care more about yardage than winning. Vermeil might as well stay. That's all he cares about too.

I think you have to look at what matters. Those guys are coordinators. They control the defensive side of the ball.

Are you going to blame Gunther for losing to the Broncos under Marty?

Chiefnj · 12-28-2005, 01:45 PM

I am a firm believer that a large, large part of a head coach's success, or failure, is attributable to who he picks as coordinators and assistants.

Herm has floundered with that aspect of the job.

htismaqe · 12-28-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

And you're the type of guy to blame the pitcher when he loses 1-0.

Not at all.

I understand that a pitcher is a PLAYER, not a coach. And I also understand that being a coach is far more than X's and O's.

If you can find a RELEVANT analogy, feel free.

RedThat · 12-28-2005, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

I am a firm believer that a large, large part of a head coach's success, or failure, is attributable to who he picks as coordinators and assistants.

Herm has floundered with that aspect of the job.

Maybe Herm can be like Dungy? IF Herm became our next head coach, hopefully he can recognize that the Chiefs have had the top offenses in the league the last 4 years. By then, maybe, just maybe we can retain the services of Al Saunders? Maybe Roaf and Shields will come back? Hopefully Herm can see all this and we can keep the same offense in tact for the next 2 years.

Also, IF Herm became our next head coach, hopefully he can recognize that the Chiefs have had one of the worst defense units in the last 5 years. By then, it's possible, just possible Herm can eradicate the entire defensive staff, including Gunther and bring his own defensive staff. By then, maybe Surtain, Knight, D.Johnson, Mitchell, Allen, Bell, Sims will all improve under his staff? Maybe we might add some new defensive players, and just maybe, maybe, we might have a better defense?

*This all sounds good to me...Would any of you agree?

FloridaMan88 · 12-28-2005, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Yep. Williams is my first choice. Seems to be the only guy that brings anything to the table.

Yeah he brings a 17-31 head coaching record to the table, including a 6-10 record his final season in Buffalo, a season that the Bills went into with Super Bowl aspirations.

All he's proven in Washington is he's a good defensive coordinator.

tk13 · 12-28-2005, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

I am a firm believer that a large, large part of a head coach's success, or failure, is attributable to who he picks as coordinators and assistants.

Herm has floundered with that aspect of the job.

We don't have to force Herm to build an offense though... we've got an offense. That's been his biggest problem... I like Donnie Henderson, his DC. I don't think that was a bad choice. Heck, Gregg Williams had Kevin Gilbride as his offensive coordinator. I'd rather have Jimmy Raye.

And much like Gregg Williams and Al Saunders, I'm sure Herm's learned some things from his first coaching stint.

MOhillbilly · 12-28-2005, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

Heck, Gregg Williams had Kevin Gilbride as his offensive coordinator. I'd rather have Jimmy Raye.

Gilbride is the QB coach for the Giants.

Lorenz is still fat BTW.

FloridaMan88 · 12-28-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

We don't have to force Herm to build an offense though... we've got an offense. That's been his biggest problem... I like Donnie Henderson, his DC. I don't think that was a bad choice. Heck, Gregg Williams had Kevin Gilbride as his offensive coordinator. I'd rather have Jimmy Raye.

And much like Gregg Williams and Al Saunders, I'm sure Herm's learned some things from his first coaching stint.

Any head coach the Chiefs hire is going to have to build, or I should say rebuild the offense because of the age of many of the key players on offense.

If Saunders isn't named the head coach I don't think he stays in KC. The main thing that attracted him and has kept him here is Dick Vermeil IMO. I think its likely Shields is going to retire, Priest may not be back, Trent Green is near the end of his career, as is Roaf, T-Rich and Kennison.

That means that the new head coach is going to play a big role in rebuilding the Chiefs offense. Looking at the Jets offenses under Herm Edwards, that would be a scary prospect if he were to become the Chiefs HC.

tk13 · 12-28-2005, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88

Any head coach the Chiefs hire is going to have to build, or I should say rebuild the offense because of the age of many of the key players on offense.

If Saunders isn't named the head coach I don't think he stays in KC. The main thing that attracted him and has kept him here is Dick Vermeil IMO. I think its likely Shields is going to retire, Priest may not be back, Trent Green is near the end of his career, as is Roaf, T-Rich and Kennison.

That means that the new head coach is going to play a big role in rebuilding the Chiefs offense. Looking at the Jets offenses under Herm Edwards, that would be a scary prospect if he were to become the Chiefs HC.

I don't think we have to rebuild the offense. Trent isn't retiring yet. Neither is Roaf I don't think. Shields might, but we can slide Black into his natural position at RG, he'll be fine. We obviously have a replacement for Priest. Tony G. is 29, he's not washed up yet. We could use another WR, but I don't think our offense is dead yet. Herm would make sure we use LJ, then play off that.

NJ Chief Fan · 12-28-2005, 04:33 PM

JIM FASSEL FOLKS

**Tribal Warfare** · 12-28-2005, 05:20 PM

I'm surprised noone's on the Tim Lewis bandwagon, and if rumors are correct besides Edwards Lewis is one of the top coaching candidates that Carl's looking at.

FloridaMan88 · 12-28-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

I'm surprised noone's on the Tim Lewis bandwagon, and if rumors are correct besides Edwards Lewis is one of the top coaching candidates that Carl's looking at.

Hell no.

Dick LeBeau, Jim Haslett, Mike Mularkey, Chan Gailey... all failures as NFL head coaches, all ex-Pittsburgh Steelers assistant coaches, like Lewis.

12-28-2005, 12:20 PM
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9805405	Greg Williams - the obvious choice I blasted on Gregg Williams last week and I still don't think he's as good of an option at head coach as Saunders, but with that not sounding like much of a possiblity, it's starting to look like it's gonna come down to Herm, Greg Williams, Tim Lewis, Stoops, and Pete Carroll. If Stoops is named head coach I won't be able to do anything but laugh. None of his schemes have held up when he's gone against anyone other then Mack Brown. I don't think Carroll wants to leave USC and there's really nothing X and O wise he carries that makes him much of a wanted man in the NFL that I see.....other then his college record and the fact that he has some unsuccessful head coaching experience. That leaves Tim Lewis, Herm, and Greg Williams. I already have a thread dedicated as to why I think Tim Lewis is a poor choice. He's touted as a defensive guru but his defense is over-rated and has been gutted by every AFC west team he's faced this year giving up around 400 yards and over 150 yards on the ground in each one. As KC head coach he'll have 8 games each year against AFC west opponents and what his defense has been able to do so far against that division is terrible. Herm is coveted entirely because he's a Rah Rah guy. Teams covet him because he talks a good game, has entertaining press conferences, and lets his players play and all that stuff. He's not an X's and O's guy whatsoever and leaves that entirely up to his coordinators. Talk is good but doesn't win football games. That leaves Greg Williams. I looked at the stats and rewatched some games of his defense vs the AFC west this year and was impressed. The Skins are 0-4 in those football games but it's definitely not on account of his defense. His defense was dominating in most of those games. Only one of those 4 games has the opposition totaled more then 300 yards and averaged more then 3.5 yards per carry on the ground. They gave up less then 250 total yards to Denver and less then 3 yards per rush. Held KC to under 300 yards and less then 4 yards per rush. Ditto for Oakland. The only team that had some success was San Diego and the stats were schewed because the game went into overtime and they gave up one big play. That defense has played great all year and really they don't have many high profile athletes on that defensive football team. "I" accused the scheme of maybe being overly complicated but that's not as bad as the players in KC accusing Guns' scheme of being too complicated. Regardless, the schemes are both aggressive and share some similarities bit the main difference appears to be one obviously doesn't work and one does. One interesting tidbit of info I heard was that Williams was actually DVs preferred choice at defensive coordinator after the '03 season. Who knows how things would've turned out if he had been running this KC defense the last 2 years instead of Gunther Cunningham. The only weakness of the Williams' defense is they play with their back to the quarterback (man to man) and don't force many turnovers. One benefit of the cover 2 scheme (indy, chicago) is defenders are always facing the quarterback and thus cause a lot of turnovers. However, the cover 2 scheme requires a front 4 that can get pressure on the quarterback or it will be gutted. Williams' was unsuccessful as head coach of Buffalo but I recently saw an interview with Mike Nolan that made me think he has been itching for the opportunity and will really be successful his second time around. As soon as Nolan was hired as the 49ers head coach, Williams met with him and talked for him for 2 hours about the things he would do over if he was awarded another head coaching position. The most important thing he said was to get the right people as coordinators. Management tries to force people into naming coordinators as soon as possible but he emphasized the importance of being 100% sure that you have the right guys. So anyway, of the names that have been thrown around so far I'd have to consider Williams my favorite.
Posts: 2,605

12-28-2005, 01:36 PM	#16
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	So Tim Lewis is 2-1 vs. the AFC West and he's a bad choice, but Gregg Williams is a good choice even though he's 0-4. I see what the deal is. People care more about yardage than winning. Vermeil might as well stay. That's all he cares about too.
Posts: 100,022

12-28-2005, 01:45 PM	#20
Chiefnj MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Willis, Harris and Davis. Casino cash: $10004900	I am a firm believer that a large, large part of a head coach's success, or failure, is attributable to who he picks as coordinators and assistants. Herm has floundered with that aspect of the job.
Posts: 6,811

12-28-2005, 04:33 PM	#28
NJ Chief Fan DAMMIT CARL! Join Date: Mar 2005 Casino cash: $10004900	JIM FASSEL FOLKS
Posts: 2,510

12-28-2005, 05:20 PM	#29
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $932813	I'm surprised noone's on the Tim Lewis bandwagon, and if rumors are correct besides Edwards Lewis is one of the top coaching candidates that Carl's looking at. __________________
Posts: 42,053