Home and Auto Owners of Toyota Cars in Rebellion Over Accidents Caused by Sudden acceleration. - Page 7

Extra Point · 01-17-2010, 06:04 AM

The drive-by-wire method of contolling throttle plate angle is totally dangerous. The cost to change all these vehicles could be devastating, but mandatory. Seems that the command signal for accelerating must be due to a short in the board, and the boards need to be redesigned and replaced. Whether the board is in the throttle assembly or external, or integral to the PCM, this shit needs to be fixed.

**HemiEd** · 01-17-2010, 06:37 AM

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-bea...-80761142.html

Floor Mats Ruled Out in Fatal Southlake Crash: Police

Cause of wreck that killed four is still unclear

Recalled Toyota floor mats had nothing to do with a car crash that killed four people in Southlake the day after Christmas, police said Tuesday.

Four people in a Toyota Avalon drowned when the car went off the road, through a fence and landed upside down in a pond.

The four, all Jehovah's Witnesses, were doing religious work at the time.

The car was one of more than four million recalled by Toyota, after federal safety regulators found a problem with the car suddenly accelerating.

The automaker said the problem is caused by the floor mat pushing against the gas pedal.

Southlake police said the floor mat in the car that crashed was found in the trunk and was not inside the vehicle.

"That's the thing we've been able to rule out pretty much for sure,” said Lt. Ben Brown.

Police said there are many other possible causes, including human error or, as some safety experts have suggested, another defect that causes rapid acceleration.

"We can't really rule that out,” Brown said. “The investigators are looking at everything they can.”

Police identified the driver as Monty Hardy, 56, of Southlake. The passengers were Wendy Akion, 38, of Irving; Sharon Ransom, 56, of Grapevine; and Hadassah Vance, 35, of Euless.

An autopsy found Hardy died from drowning and detected no heart problems or other medical condition, police said. The road was dry at the time of the accident.

A Toyota spokesman, John Hansen, said he could not speculate on what went wrong.

He acknowledged the floor mats in some models, including the one that crashed in Southlake, can get wedged near the gas pedal, causing rapid acceleration.

“There has been speculation there are other causes of unintended acceleration,” Hansen said. “Our position is we have been able to find no other cause.”

Toyota’s solution is to replace the mat and the floor cushion under the carpeting and to shorten the pedal, he said.

The company has urged owners of recalled models to remove the floor mats and put them in the trunk until they can go to a dealer to fix the problem.

HMc · 01-17-2010, 07:27 AM

Is there any evidence at all at this stage that the dallas accident was a result of a faulty vehicle (be it a stuck throttle or any other fault)?

Param · 01-17-2010, 07:24 AM

so ur sayin i shouldn't drive toyata huh

**Bwana** · 01-17-2010, 07:34 AM

Christine? It sounds like "ota" has some serious issues to work out.

JD10367 · 01-17-2010, 08:08 AM

While it's fun to bash Toyota over this, in general foreign cars are still looked upon as more trustworthy than American cars. However, we should also keep in mind that this was not always the case. Not too long ago, "Japanese" was synonymous with "cheap". (I think they used to use recycled steel left over from WW2 or something, and their cars would rust out.) Toyota was considered a cheap low-level car company; now it's not. Datsun (Nissan), same thing; now, it's not. Honda. Et cetera. People laughed at Hyundai when they first came over from Korea; now, I would think they outsell most American companies. People laughed at Kia, most recently; Kia is now making inroads towards respectability.

So, instead of everyone using the moment to bash Toyota as they deal with their own "Belichick went for it on 4th and 2, huh huh huh" moment, perhaps we should spend more time figuring out how to raise the respectability of U.S.-made cars.

As for the rampant acceleration, it makes me glad I bypassed the Toyota Yaris and got a Smart instead. I don't have to worry about rampant acceleration. If the throttle opened wide, it really wouldn't make much of a difference.

Earthling · 01-17-2010, 08:41 AM

For the life of me I can't understand how the floor mat could cause acceleration unless it was on top of the accelerator pedal and pressing it down. I have both foreign and domestic vehicles and have no agenda. I will be sure to talk to my daughter and niece about what they should do if an acceleration issue happens while they are at the wheel and thank you for this heads up.

Earthling · 01-17-2010, 09:04 AM

I watched more of the videos and see what Toyota is claiming...That the mats are catching the edge of the accelerator pedal and forcing it down that way. Like one gentleman in the video stated "that is probably the cause of some of these accidents" but many occured with the absense of those mats. Anyway, its a very good thing to be aware of.

**Bwana** · 01-17-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earthling

For the life of me I can't understand how the floor mat could cause acceleration unless it was on top of the accelerator pedal and pressing it down. I have both foreign and domestic vehicles and have no agenda. I will be sure to talk to my daughter and niece about what they should do if an acceleration issue happens while they are at the wheel and thank you for this heads up.

I had a 2008 Grand Prix as a company car and I had it happen at least five times and that's exactly how it happened. I would hit the gas and if the mat was to far up, it would catch on the pedal and I would be going like a bat out of hell. No big deal, I would just reach down and give the mat a tug, problem solved. In this Toyota case however, it's not the mat causing the problem.

**Bwana** · 01-17-2010, 09:25 AM

Another thing I don't understand, is the brakes have more doninance than the engine. Even if the engine is going all out, people should be able to use the brakes to stop, pull over and shut off the key. If you don't panic, there shouldn't be a death involved.

JD10367 · 01-17-2010, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwana

Another thing I don't understand, is the brakes have more doninance than the engine. Even if the engine is going all out, people should be able to use the brakes to stop, pull over and shut off the key. If you don't panic, there shouldn't be a death involved.

Crowded city streets or busy highways + crucial seconds passed before most people figure out what's happening + the fact that most people are stupid drivers = death.

**Bwana** · 01-17-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD10367

Crowded city streets or busy highways + crucial seconds passed before most people figure out what's happening + the fact that most people are stupid drivers = death.

That would explain it.

**HemiEd** · 01-17-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwana

Another thing I don't understand, is the brakes have more doninance than the engine. Even if the engine is going all out, people should be able to use the brakes to stop, pull over and shut off the key. If you don't panic, there shouldn't be a death involved.

Greg, I guess some of these incidents have happened on some pretty bad stretches of road.

Toyota is going to install a band-aid, even though there is not a problem.
http://jalopnik.com/5446129/toyotas-...t-fiery-deaths

**Bwana** · 01-17-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Greg, I guess some of these incidents have happened on some pretty bad stretches of road.

Toyota is going to install a band-aid, even though there is not a problem.
http://jalopnik.com/5446129/toyotas-...t-fiery-deaths

I understand Ed and if the correct action was not taken right away, (brakes) I could see how it could result in a dirt nap. This problem and Toyotas action, (or lack there of) remind me a little bit of the Ford Pinto cases back in the day. It will cost the company less to pay the court actions, than fix the problem.

**007** · 01-18-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwana

I understand Ed and if the correct action was not taken right away, (brakes) I could see how it could result in a dirt nap. This problem and Toyotas action, (or lack there of) remind me a little bit of the Ford Pinto cases back in the day. It will cost the company less to pay the court actions, than fix the problem.

It sickens me that a company can get away with that.

01-17-2010, 06:04 AM	#1
Extra Point MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Prairie Village, KS Casino cash: $10004900	The drive-by-wire method of contolling throttle plate angle is totally dangerous. The cost to change all these vehicles could be devastating, but mandatory. Seems that the command signal for accelerating must be due to a short in the board, and the boards need to be redesigned and replaced. Whether the board is in the throttle assembly or external, or integral to the PCM, this shit needs to be fixed. __________________ "Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits." --Satchel Paige
Posts: 7,845

01-17-2010, 06:37 AM	#2
HemiEd Supporter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ozarks Casino cash: $3100564	http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-bea...-80761142.html Floor Mats Ruled Out in Fatal Southlake Crash: Police Cause of wreck that killed four is still unclear Recalled Toyota floor mats had nothing to do with a car crash that killed four people in Southlake the day after Christmas, police said Tuesday. Four people in a Toyota Avalon drowned when the car went off the road, through a fence and landed upside down in a pond. The four, all Jehovah's Witnesses, were doing religious work at the time. The car was one of more than four million recalled by Toyota, after federal safety regulators found a problem with the car suddenly accelerating. The automaker said the problem is caused by the floor mat pushing against the gas pedal. Southlake police said the floor mat in the car that crashed was found in the trunk and was not inside the vehicle. "That's the thing we've been able to rule out pretty much for sure,” said Lt. Ben Brown. Police said there are many other possible causes, including human error or, as some safety experts have suggested, another defect that causes rapid acceleration. "We can't really rule that out,” Brown said. “The investigators are looking at everything they can.” Police identified the driver as Monty Hardy, 56, of Southlake. The passengers were Wendy Akion, 38, of Irving; Sharon Ransom, 56, of Grapevine; and Hadassah Vance, 35, of Euless. An autopsy found Hardy died from drowning and detected no heart problems or other medical condition, police said. The road was dry at the time of the accident. A Toyota spokesman, John Hansen, said he could not speculate on what went wrong. He acknowledged the floor mats in some models, including the one that crashed in Southlake, can get wedged near the gas pedal, causing rapid acceleration. “There has been speculation there are other causes of unintended acceleration,” Hansen said. “Our position is we have been able to find no other cause.” Toyota’s solution is to replace the mat and the floor cushion under the carpeting and to shorten the pedal, he said. The company has urged owners of recalled models to remove the floor mats and put them in the trunk until they can go to a dealer to fix the problem.
Posts: 33,460

01-17-2010, 07:27 AM	#3
HMc from the very deep south. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia. Casino cash: $9944900	Is there any evidence at all at this stage that the dallas accident was a result of a faulty vehicle (be it a stuck throttle or any other fault)?
Posts: 2,792

01-17-2010, 07:24 AM	#4
Param Veteran Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $10005218	so ur sayin i shouldn't drive toyata huh
Posts: 2,173

01-17-2010, 07:34 AM	#5
Bwana It's Five O'Clock Somewhere Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Billings, Montana Casino cash: $2139373647	Christine? It sounds like "ota" has some serious issues to work out. __________________ Adventure is dangerous....but monotony can kill you.
Posts: 69,767

01-17-2010, 08:08 AM	#6
JD10367 Cheaterlover* Join Date: May 2009 Location: RI Casino cash: $10010716	While it's fun to bash Toyota over this, in general foreign cars are still looked upon as more trustworthy than American cars. However, we should also keep in mind that this was not always the case. Not too long ago, "Japanese" was synonymous with "cheap". (I think they used to use recycled steel left over from WW2 or something, and their cars would rust out.) Toyota was considered a cheap low-level car company; now it's not. Datsun (Nissan), same thing; now, it's not. Honda. Et cetera. People laughed at Hyundai when they first came over from Korea; now, I would think they outsell most American companies. People laughed at Kia, most recently; Kia is now making inroads towards respectability. So, instead of everyone using the moment to bash Toyota as they deal with their own "Belichick went for it on 4th and 2, huh huh huh" moment, perhaps we should spend more time figuring out how to raise the respectability of U.S.-made cars. As for the rampant acceleration, it makes me glad I bypassed the Toyota Yaris and got a Smart instead. I don't have to worry about rampant acceleration. If the throttle opened wide, it really wouldn't make much of a difference.
Posts: 12,916

01-17-2010, 08:41 AM	#7
Earthling MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Casino cash: $10008447	For the life of me I can't understand how the floor mat could cause acceleration unless it was on top of the accelerator pedal and pressing it down. I have both foreign and domestic vehicles and have no agenda. I will be sure to talk to my daughter and niece about what they should do if an acceleration issue happens while they are at the wheel and thank you for this heads up.
Posts: 5,995

01-17-2010, 09:04 AM	#8
Earthling MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Casino cash: $10008447	I watched more of the videos and see what Toyota is claiming...That the mats are catching the edge of the accelerator pedal and forcing it down that way. Like one gentleman in the video stated "that is probably the cause of some of these accidents" but many occured with the absense of those mats. Anyway, its a very good thing to be aware of.
Posts: 5,995

01-17-2010, 09:25 AM	#10
Bwana It's Five O'Clock Somewhere Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Billings, Montana Casino cash: $2139373647	Another thing I don't understand, is the brakes have more doninance than the engine. Even if the engine is going all out, people should be able to use the brakes to stop, pull over and shut off the key. If you don't panic, there shouldn't be a death involved. __________________ Adventure is dangerous....but monotony can kill you.
Posts: 69,767