Movies and TV The Official "Lost" the series discussion - Page 175

Deberg_1990 · 10-06-2004, 04:29 PM

I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....

**BigRedChief** · 02-21-2008, 03:09 PM

New course sets ‘Lost’ back on track
‘Freighter group’ and flash fowards send show on smart, inventive path
COMMENTARY

By Jacob Clifton
MSNBC contributor
updated 1:57 p.m. CT, Thurs., Feb. 21, 2008

As a show whose major selling points have always been mystery and confounded expectations, perhaps it's inevitable the eventual rescue implied in the premise of ABC's hit drama "Lost" would be turned on its ear.
Season four's fourth (of 13) episode airs tonight, and this season has associated the concept of rescue from the island with terrible fates, both in the immediate (the terrifying "freighter," its off-putting personnel) and the future (uniformly depressing flash forwards of the Oceanic Six).
Three and a half years ago, who could guess fans would eventually cross their fingers that the castaways would stay lost forever?

By setting these two new concepts against the show's central premise, "Lost" has managed to reverse its own course in a way that's intelligent, inventive and unexpectedly moving. Where viewers once cheered on Claire's quixotic messenger birds and Michael's raft-building, fans are now in the position of knowing that a few make it home and how bad things get there.

These developments are not entirely surprising, as we've been conditioned by the show to accept and expect game-changing reversals at least twice a season.
Remember when the castaways only had to worry about a burlap bag over the head in the middle of the night? Now they're contending with multimillion-dollar paramilitary organizations whose purposes are still unknown.

Where the show has fallen in the past is in the careful preparation of its revelation-to-mystery ratio. However, viewers also need that chaotic feeling that anything can happen — that the true size and scope of the field of play are still unrevealed — or else the show's central attraction falls by the wayside.

The new flash-forward structure seems like a brilliant way to reintroduce that first-season sense of enormity while still giving fans their time's worth.

New roles
"Lost" is as compelling and intriguing as ever, drawing the revelations and threads of last season's finale tightly around the new off-island threat. One of the most exciting aspects of the show's new rules is the fascinating new angles and opportunities they create for the characters. New divisions in the central crash group, fights over leadership and new alliances have all revitalized and sometimes irrevocably radicalized tired characters.

In the wake of Jack's capture by, dicey collaboration with and eventual "rescue" from the Others, he's become his own opposite: haunted, ethically gray, nearly unlikable. His decisive — and sometimes violent — actions as the leader seem to stem from his knowledge and opinion of the Others, and have bemused and enraged members of the group who weren’t captured.

What were once Jack's finest qualities — his innate sense of right and wrong and his trust, as a physician, in the laws of cause and effect — become more and more limited and suspect as viewers learn more about the island's nonstandard physics. And then, through his flash forwards, fans know his rescue and escape have created a lonely prison of what was formerly a life, before the island.

Likewise, there's a chilling anticipation in the concept of watching Sayid go from repentant ex-torturer to murderer in Ben's service: How does it happen? What will it look like? Will it seem so repugnant when we get there?

The one thing fans can count on with "Lost" is that nothing is what it looks like. If something seems awful or scary at first, chances are it's probably pretty cool in the end. And the opposite is true as well, as with Walt and Locke's relationship going from spiritual haven to possible psychotic break, while Jack and Locke's once-comforting patriarchal presences become rigid, violent and scary.

Or take Hurley, who this season has become a doomed hero of nearly epic proportions. Between his flash forwards of psychological relapse and his growing relationship with the island, he seems to be one to watch this season.

And as for Ben and Juliet, those holdovers from the conflict with the Others, it would seem the freighter is the best thing that could have happened to them. By joining the original group's narrative, by hook or by crook, they've made themselves invaluable in the conflict to follow.
Now, having spent enough time with these characters to see their strengths and weaknesses, there is an opportunity to see just how far they can be pushed by the realization of their greatest wish: the possibility of escape, and of return.

The future's great, but …
Where it gets most interesting is in the flash forwards. They offer proof that Locke and Ben are completely correct — leaving the island is a terrible, terrible idea.

Jack's in an alcoholic shame spiral worse than anything he experienced pre-Oceanic, Kate's seems caught in yet another horrible relationship, Hurley's crazier than ever and Sayid seems to have lost the sense of honor that was always his best quality.

There's a feeling close to trepidation when a flash-forward story begins, if only because they are so uniformly bleak and open-ended.
Tonight marks the 73rd episode of 117. The show’s nearly two-thirds of the way to its conclusion. As the headlong rush into that last third of the story begins, it's tempting to spend every episode reviewing how far things have come, and how much things have changed.
But it's much more fun to imagine how much more things have left to change.
Jacob Clifton is a staff writer for Television Without Pity.
© 2008 MSNBC Interactive
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23262056/

**Baby Lee** · 02-21-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ct

That's quite a resemblance to Charlotte

My point was that there's a picture from Ben's childhood [or at least his childhood girlfriend's childhood] where there's a book copyrighted September 2000 on the shelf.

**Baby Lee** · 02-21-2008, 03:51 PM

**noa** · 02-21-2008, 10:30 PM

I didn't really like the episode tonight, but that was a huge bombshell at the end. I thought it was a return to those days where very little happened both in real time and in the flash back/forward. They could have told that whole story with future Kate in about two scenes with just as much drama, and very little happened back on the island. The only redemption was the ending.

irishjayhawk · 02-21-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noa

I didn't really like the episode tonight, but that was a huge bombshell at the end. I thought it was a return to those days where very little happened both in real time and in the flash back/forward. They could have told that whole story with future Kate in about two scenes with just as much drama, and very little happened back on the island. The only redemption was the ending.

Yep. So true. With a full season, it would have been great. With them not shooting all 16, I thought it was a waste.

Chiefnj2 · 02-21-2008, 10:59 PM

I think you learned a little more than just the baby.

You learn that the outside world knows of Ben and that he is very wealthy and/or has access to wealth. Ben is also confident that despite being jailed he can come up with a transfer of 3.2 million in a week.

You learn that Ben is once again way ahead of Locke and has completely gotten into Locke's head.

Locke is losing it completely - throwing the tray, kicking out Kate, grenade in the mouth.

Something is up with Daniels memory and they know enough to test it on the island - does the outside world know of the islands healing properties?

Jack is afraid to see Aaron.

**BigRedChief** · 02-21-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noa

I didn't really like the episode tonight, but that was a huge bombshell at the end. I thought it was a return to those days where very little happened both in real time and in the flash back/forward. They could have told that whole story with future Kate in about two scenes with just as much drama, and very little happened back on the island. The only redemption was the ending.

Welllll I liked it. It's the best episode arc that they have done since the first season.

Mr. Plow · 02-22-2008, 08:42 AM

I got the feeling that Locke is kind of "turning into" Ben. Living at the compound, controlling everyone there, etc.

irishjayhawk · 02-22-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I think you learned a little more than just the baby.

You learn that the outside world knows of Ben and that he is very wealthy and/or has access to wealth. Ben is also confident that despite being jailed he can come up with a transfer of 3.2 million in a week.

You learn that Ben is once again way ahead of Locke and has completely gotten into Locke's head.

Locke is losing it completely - throwing the tray, kicking out Kate, grenade in the mouth.

Something is up with Daniels memory and they know enough to test it on the island - does the outside world know of the islands healing properties?

Jack is afraid to see Aaron.

All valid points that make me reconsider my gut instinct. Maybe my true problem with the hour is it didn't glue me to my seat. The flash forwards were boring (aside from the last one - and really only because NOTHING else major had happened) and the time on the island didn't hit anything worth noting. Next episode looks awesome.

Re Jack & Aaron: I think they are related (I think it was told to us in Season 2 or 3). I believe Jack and Claire are brother-sister because his dad had an affair. I think that's why he can't see Aaron because he found out.

**Baby Lee** · 02-22-2008, 09:30 AM

1. Were Miles and Ben talking in code? "3.2, why not 3.3 or 3.4?" "3 days?" "OK 1 week."

2. Was Daniel trying to predict the cards or trying to remember the cards? And what are the relative merits of; 1) his memory is off, or 2) the cards are changing while turned down. [remember the changing picture frames when Miles talked with the murdered dealer grandson].

**Baby Lee** · 02-22-2008, 10:13 AM

Apparently in the Lostiverse CA courts have a lot of power. Enough to prosecute robberies from NM and arson and murders from the MW.

**Bearcat** · 02-22-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I think you learned a little more than just the baby.

You learn that the outside world knows of Ben and that he is very wealthy and/or has access to wealth. Ben is also confident that despite being jailed he can come up with a transfer of 3.2 million in a week.

You learn that Ben is once again way ahead of Locke and has completely gotten into Locke's head.

Locke is losing it completely - throwing the tray, kicking out Kate, grenade in the mouth.

Something is up with Daniels memory and they know enough to test it on the island - does the outside world know of the islands healing properties?

Jack is afraid to see Aaron.

I really liked the first few episodes, but I think it's going downhill (again)... we already knew most of that. Ben has connections, Ben > Locke, off-island Kate is a b*tch.

When Kate was asked to pick up Aaron, I got a feeling they were foreshadowning to something regarding the two of them... they had some really good twists in the previous episodes, but for some reason I picked up on that one really early, so it wasn't much of a cliffhanger at the end. Jack being afraid to see Aaron is a good point though... makes me wonder if he has Walt-type issues or if mom was forced to stay on the island because of Kate.

I personally like how you can learn English in a matter of weeks, having known zero English before being stranded on the island. He must have downloaded audio lessons to his iPod.

**Bearcat** · 02-22-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Tonight marks the 73rd episode of 117.

Holy crap, I didn't know they had 40+ more episodes.

I hope they get back to LA sooner than later... I'd rather watch several episodes between the rescued and the remaining than watch 35 more episodes before we catch up to the flash-forwards. Either way, I think it could be done in 10 if they cut out episodes like last night.

irishjayhawk · 02-22-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I really liked the first few episodes, but I think it's going downhill (again)... we already knew most of that. Ben has connections, Ben > Locke, off-island Kate is a b*tch.

When Kate was asked to pick up Aaron, I got a feeling they were foreshadowning to something regarding the two of them... they had some really good twists in the previous episodes, but for some reason I picked up on that one really early, so it wasn't much of a cliffhanger at the end. Jack being afraid to see Aaron is a good point though... makes me wonder if he has Walt-type issues or if mom was forced to stay on the island because of Kate.

I personally like how you can learn English in a matter of weeks, having known zero English before being stranded on the island. He must have downloaded audio lessons to his iPod.

Jack and Claire are related, but they don't know it. I think that's the reason Jack can't go see Aaron.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

1. Were Miles and Ben talking in code? "3.2, why not 3.3 or 3.4?" "3 days?" "OK 1 week."

2. Was Daniel trying to predict the cards or trying to remember the cards? And what are the relative merits of; 1) his memory is off, or 2) the cards are changing while turned down. [remember the changing picture frames when Miles talked with the murdered dealer grandson].

It just hit me. 3.2million = ~3.2 on the meter thing that the scientist got from that missile. Wasn't it? So essentially, they're talking about time?

**Bearcat** · 02-22-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

Jack and Claire are related, but they don't know it. I think that's the reason Jack can't go see Aaron.

This is why stretching a show across 10 years doesn't work.[/sarcasm]

10-06-2004, 04:29 PM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3864454	The Official "Lost" the series discussion I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....
Posts: 66,914

02-21-2008, 03:09 PM	#2611
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $2989627 VARSITY	New course sets ‘Lost’ back on track ‘Freighter group’ and flash fowards send show on smart, inventive path COMMENTARY By Jacob Clifton MSNBC contributor updated 1:57 p.m. CT, Thurs., Feb. 21, 2008 As a show whose major selling points have always been mystery and confounded expectations, perhaps it's inevitable the eventual rescue implied in the premise of ABC's hit drama "Lost" would be turned on its ear. Season four's fourth (of 13) episode airs tonight, and this season has associated the concept of rescue from the island with terrible fates, both in the immediate (the terrifying "freighter," its off-putting personnel) and the future (uniformly depressing flash forwards of the Oceanic Six). Three and a half years ago, who could guess fans would eventually cross their fingers that the castaways would stay lost forever? By setting these two new concepts against the show's central premise, "Lost" has managed to reverse its own course in a way that's intelligent, inventive and unexpectedly moving. Where viewers once cheered on Claire's quixotic messenger birds and Michael's raft-building, fans are now in the position of knowing that a few make it home and how bad things get there. These developments are not entirely surprising, as we've been conditioned by the show to accept and expect game-changing reversals at least twice a season. Remember when the castaways only had to worry about a burlap bag over the head in the middle of the night? Now they're contending with multimillion-dollar paramilitary organizations whose purposes are still unknown. Where the show has fallen in the past is in the careful preparation of its revelation-to-mystery ratio. However, viewers also need that chaotic feeling that anything can happen — that the true size and scope of the field of play are still unrevealed — or else the show's central attraction falls by the wayside. The new flash-forward structure seems like a brilliant way to reintroduce that first-season sense of enormity while still giving fans their time's worth. New roles "Lost" is as compelling and intriguing as ever, drawing the revelations and threads of last season's finale tightly around the new off-island threat. One of the most exciting aspects of the show's new rules is the fascinating new angles and opportunities they create for the characters. New divisions in the central crash group, fights over leadership and new alliances have all revitalized and sometimes irrevocably radicalized tired characters. In the wake of Jack's capture by, dicey collaboration with and eventual "rescue" from the Others, he's become his own opposite: haunted, ethically gray, nearly unlikable. His decisive — and sometimes violent — actions as the leader seem to stem from his knowledge and opinion of the Others, and have bemused and enraged members of the group who weren’t captured. What were once Jack's finest qualities — his innate sense of right and wrong and his trust, as a physician, in the laws of cause and effect — become more and more limited and suspect as viewers learn more about the island's nonstandard physics. And then, through his flash forwards, fans know his rescue and escape have created a lonely prison of what was formerly a life, before the island. Likewise, there's a chilling anticipation in the concept of watching Sayid go from repentant ex-torturer to murderer in Ben's service: How does it happen? What will it look like? Will it seem so repugnant when we get there? The one thing fans can count on with "Lost" is that nothing is what it looks like. If something seems awful or scary at first, chances are it's probably pretty cool in the end. And the opposite is true as well, as with Walt and Locke's relationship going from spiritual haven to possible psychotic break, while Jack and Locke's once-comforting patriarchal presences become rigid, violent and scary. Or take Hurley, who this season has become a doomed hero of nearly epic proportions. Between his flash forwards of psychological relapse and his growing relationship with the island, he seems to be one to watch this season. And as for Ben and Juliet, those holdovers from the conflict with the Others, it would seem the freighter is the best thing that could have happened to them. By joining the original group's narrative, by hook or by crook, they've made themselves invaluable in the conflict to follow. Now, having spent enough time with these characters to see their strengths and weaknesses, there is an opportunity to see just how far they can be pushed by the realization of their greatest wish: the possibility of escape, and of return. The future's great, but … Where it gets most interesting is in the flash forwards. They offer proof that Locke and Ben are completely correct — leaving the island is a terrible, terrible idea. Jack's in an alcoholic shame spiral worse than anything he experienced pre-Oceanic, Kate's seems caught in yet another horrible relationship, Hurley's crazier than ever and Sayid seems to have lost the sense of honor that was always his best quality. There's a feeling close to trepidation when a flash-forward story begins, if only because they are so uniformly bleak and open-ended. Tonight marks the 73rd episode of 117. The show’s nearly two-thirds of the way to its conclusion. As the headlong rush into that last third of the story begins, it's tempting to spend every episode reviewing how far things have come, and how much things have changed. But it's much more fun to imagine how much more things have left to change. Jacob Clifton is a staff writer for Television Without Pity. © 2008 MSNBC Interactive URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23262056/ __________________ Time is worth more than money.
Posts: 79,144

02-21-2008, 03:51 PM	#2613
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $6838598	__________________ We need the kind of courage that can withstand the subtle corruption of the cynics - E.W.
Posts: 95,642

02-21-2008, 10:30 PM	#2614
noa Band Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $1445453	I didn't really like the episode tonight, but that was a huge bombshell at the end. I thought it was a return to those days where very little happened both in real time and in the flash back/forward. They could have told that whole story with future Kate in about two scenes with just as much drama, and very little happened back on the island. The only redemption was the ending. __________________ Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes, well, he eats you.
Posts: 8,302

02-21-2008, 10:59 PM	#2616
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7873688	I think you learned a little more than just the baby. You learn that the outside world knows of Ben and that he is very wealthy and/or has access to wealth. Ben is also confident that despite being jailed he can come up with a transfer of 3.2 million in a week. You learn that Ben is once again way ahead of Locke and has completely gotten into Locke's head. Locke is losing it completely - throwing the tray, kicking out Kate, grenade in the mouth. Something is up with Daniels memory and they know enough to test it on the island - does the outside world know of the islands healing properties? Jack is afraid to see Aaron. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,394

02-22-2008, 08:42 AM	#2618
Mr. Plow In Search of a Life Join Date: Dec 2005 Casino cash: $1867391	I got the feeling that Locke is kind of "turning into" Ben. Living at the compound, controlling everyone there, etc.
Posts: 30,821

02-22-2008, 09:30 AM	#2620
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $6838598	1. Were Miles and Ben talking in code? "3.2, why not 3.3 or 3.4?" "3 days?" "OK 1 week." 2. Was Daniel trying to predict the cards or trying to remember the cards? And what are the relative merits of; 1) his memory is off, or 2) the cards are changing while turned down. [remember the changing picture frames when Miles talked with the murdered dealer grandson]. __________________ We need the kind of courage that can withstand the subtle corruption of the cynics - E.W.
Posts: 95,642

02-22-2008, 10:13 AM	#2621
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $6838598	Apparently in the Lostiverse CA courts have a lot of power. Enough to prosecute robberies from NM and arson and murders from the MW. __________________ We need the kind of courage that can withstand the subtle corruption of the cynics - E.W.
Posts: 95,642