These "parents" should face criminal charges - Page 28

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-27-2008, 07:12 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer

Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.

An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.

She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.

The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently.

"We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."

Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said.

The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.

Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.

"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."

The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent.

"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."

The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital.

But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.

She is survived by her parents and three older siblings.

"We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."

The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.

Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."

Pioli Zombie · 05-23-2009, 12:57 PM

Why was this thread dredged up?????

This case has NOTHING to do with Christianity. It has to do with whackjobs who are and should go to prison.

99 percent of Christians understand God works through people, for example, doctors.
Posted via Mobile Device

MIAdragon · 05-23-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

Why was this thread dredged up?????

This case has NOTHING to do with Christianity. It has to do with whackjobs who are and should go to prison.

99 percent of Christians understand God works through people, for example, doctors.
Posted via Mobile Device

post 403 Einstein

**luv** · 05-23-2009, 02:34 PM

I caught and episode of Law & Order a few weeks ago. The last part of it was about prosecuting a mother who chose not to vaccinate her son. He came down with measles or something, which can lie dormant for a few weeks, yet is contagious during that time. A baby, who was not old enough to have received the vaccination yet, contracted the illness and died.

I know it's not the same argument, but the religious aspect of this thread brought it to mind. If this girl's parents are both found guilty for not taking their child to a doctor, do you think the mother of the boy who spread the disease that killed the baby due to not getting her son vaccinated should have been held responsible?

bowener · 05-23-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv

I caught and episode of Law & Order a few weeks ago. The last part of it was about prosecuting a mother who chose not to vaccinate her son. He came down with measles or something, which can lie dormant for a few weeks, yet is contagious during that time. A baby, who was not old enough to have received the vaccination yet, contracted the illness and died.

I know it's not the same argument, but the religious aspect of this thread brought it to mind. If this girl's parents are both found guilty for not taking their child to a doctor, do you think the mother of the boy who spread the disease that killed the baby due to not getting her son vaccinated should have been held responsible?

I dont see the same kind of responsibility in this case. I wish that there was a way for parents to be punished in some way for this, especially now that we are understanding autism better and that the original DR who proclaimed there to be a link stated that he lied about his findings and exaggerated it, and now we also found at least 2 genes that can naturally explain 15% of all cases of autism (I brought that up bc it seems to be the only reason no one gets it now).

However, I think cases where treatment is denied or neglected due to religious purposes, like JW's refusing transfusions, which means they cant have most surgeries, will ultimately be seen as illegal, at least for minors (if it isnt already). I cannot imagine being a parent and telling the Dr not to do life saving surgery on my child beause they cannot have a blood transfusion (something that there is no way anyone 200 years ago, let alone 2000 years ago, could have known about) because my religion says they cant.

To get back to the case you brought up Luv, I think it would be difficult to get them on criminal charges in the courts, but I think you could probably take them to civil court and sue the shit out of them and win... lots of jury members would be/should be sympathetic to you and your dead child.

Chaunceythe3rd · 05-23-2009, 05:26 PM

Why is it that you have to pass a test to get a driver's license or get a job but any idiot can get married, have kids and abuse them and these tragedies continue?

03-27-2008, 07:12 PM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	These "parents" should face criminal charges http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor. An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said. She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney. The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors. She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently. "We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering." Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said. The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body. Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl. "My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith." The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent. "Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now." The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital. But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead. She is survived by her parents and three older siblings. "We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time." The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway. Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."
Posts: 88,960

05-23-2009, 12:57 PM	#406
Pioli Zombie Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: olathe,kansas Casino cash: $10004900	Why was this thread dredged up????? This case has NOTHING to do with Christianity. It has to do with whackjobs who are and should go to prison. 99 percent of Christians understand God works through people, for example, doctors. Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 11,077

05-23-2009, 02:34 PM	#408
luv MY LITTLE #15 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Springfield, MO Casino cash: $6189600	I caught and episode of Law & Order a few weeks ago. The last part of it was about prosecuting a mother who chose not to vaccinate her son. He came down with measles or something, which can lie dormant for a few weeks, yet is contagious during that time. A baby, who was not old enough to have received the vaccination yet, contracted the illness and died. I know it's not the same argument, but the religious aspect of this thread brought it to mind. If this girl's parents are both found guilty for not taking their child to a doctor, do you think the mother of the boy who spread the disease that killed the baby due to not getting her son vaccinated should have been held responsible?
Posts: 63,433

05-23-2009, 05:26 PM	#410
Chaunceythe3rd Superior Breeding Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boston Casino cash: $9915419	Why is it that you have to pass a test to get a driver's license or get a job but any idiot can get married, have kids and abuse them and these tragedies continue?
Posts: 347