These "parents" should face criminal charges

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-27-2008, 07:12 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer

Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.

An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.

She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.

The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently.

"We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."

Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said.

The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.

Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.

"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."

The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent.

"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."

The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital.

But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.

She is survived by her parents and three older siblings.

"We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."

The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.

Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-27-2008, 07:27 PM

It's all part of God's plan, Dane.

ChiefsFan4Life · 03-27-2008, 07:28 PM

They chose a fairy tale over their daughter's life - nice

MIAdragon · 03-27-2008, 07:29 PM

Wow I hope they take those 3 other kids away ASAP.

Jenson71 · 03-27-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.

Dammit. A school nurse would have picked up on this immediately. Just stupid. Just so ****ing stupid.

And the mother is lying when she says there were signs of improvement. It's all downhill. Just a damned lie. Damn ignorant fools.

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 07:35 PM

Freedom of Religion is part of our country.

They get to choose whether they go to a doctor.

It's a bad thing that happened but there isn't anything that should be done about it.

What I'm saying is that you can't have it both ways.

The next thing you know the government will make all of your decisions for you and also take all of your stuff to distribute to others .. you know, like Hillary and Obama want to do.

Jenson71 · 03-27-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

It's a bad thing that happened but there isn't anything that should be done about it.

Like hell there isn't! Lock these morons up and take their children away, IMMEDIATELY.

**CrazyPhuD** · 03-27-2008, 07:44 PM

So does this decide the Darwinism over Intelligent design argument?

Frazod · 03-27-2008, 07:47 PM

At least when psychos kill their own kids by being psychos, they're doing their part to rid themselves from the gene pool. Perhaps we should grease the other three and then spay and neuter mom and dad, all in the Name Of God, of course.

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

Like hell there isn't! Lock these morons up and take their children away, IMMEDIATELY.

In doing so you would be removing their right to practice religion the way they see fit.

It's a catch 22 and they would win in a court of law.

I work with a guy that almost died last fall because he does not believe in doctors. We have talked to him and tried to reason out why he should have gone to a doctor. He was down for a couple of months. He is pretty much recovered now, but we asked him what he would do if his kid broke his arm. He said that he would set it to the best of his ability and pray for him.

That is just an area that is best left alone. I worry about my family and my situation, I can't, we can't, be the judgment seat for those that believe differently than we do. Look at what is going on everywhere else!

It's a no win situation.

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD

So does this decide the Darwinism over Intelligent design argument?

If it does for you I think you are the only one.

Jenson71 · 03-27-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

In doing so you would be removing their right to practice religion the way they see fit.

You're damn right I would be. And if your religion called for you to kill all homosexuals, or all white people over 42 years of age, guess what? I'd fight like hell to remove your right to practice religion the way you want to, and I wouldn't feel one damn bit bad about it.

They can practice this "religion" in a lonely 6 by 6 cell room for about 40 years.

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

You're damn right I would be. And if your religion called for you to kill all homosexuals, or all white people over 42 years of age, guess what? I'd fight like hell to remove your right to practice religion the way you want to, and I wouldn't feel one damn bit bad about it.

They can practice this "religion" in a lonely 6 by 6 cell room for about 40 years.

But their religion does not tell them to go out and kill. It tells them to trust God for what they need.

In this one you are just wrong.

What other freedoms would you be willing to take away from people just because you don't understand their belief or like the way they do things?

You are setting a bad precedent.

BigVE · 03-27-2008, 07:54 PM

Eh, if your a christian and a person who believes in the bible this is not acceptable as a parent IMO.

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigVE

Eh, if your a christian and a person who believes in the bible this is not acceptable as a parent IMO.

I don't think we get to make that judgment. JMO, but I'm pretty sure my opinion goes with the "laws of the land".

03-27-2008, 07:12 PM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	These "parents" should face criminal charges http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor. An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said. She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney. The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors. She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently. "We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering." Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said. The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body. Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl. "My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith." The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent. "Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now." The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital. But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead. She is survived by her parents and three older siblings. "We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time." The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway. Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."
Posts: 88,960

03-27-2008, 07:27 PM	#2
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	It's all part of God's plan, Dane. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,826

03-27-2008, 07:28 PM	#3
ChiefsFan4Life DT: HOF Class of 2009 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: House Springs, MO Casino cash: $10004900	They chose a fairy tale over their daughter's life - nice
Posts: 2,031

03-27-2008, 07:29 PM	#4
MIAdragon Someone pass the antifreeze Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Miami (North Cuba) Casino cash: $1587819	Wow I hope they take those 3 other kids away ASAP.
Posts: 15,769

03-27-2008, 07:35 PM	#6
a1na2 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pittsburg Casino cash: $10004900	Freedom of Religion is part of our country. They get to choose whether they go to a doctor. It's a bad thing that happened but there isn't anything that should be done about it. What I'm saying is that you can't have it both ways. The next thing you know the government will make all of your decisions for you and also take all of your stuff to distribute to others .. you know, like Hillary and Obama want to do.
Posts: 2,691

03-27-2008, 07:44 PM	#8
CrazyPhuD Meow Join Date: Jun 2005 Casino cash: $10005050	So does this decide the Darwinism over Intelligent design argument?
Posts: 8,523

03-27-2008, 07:47 PM	#9
Frazod WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $3115085	At least when psychos kill their own kids by being psychos, they're doing their part to rid themselves from the gene pool. Perhaps we should grease the other three and then spay and neuter mom and dad, all in the Name Of God, of course.
Posts: 119,488

03-27-2008, 07:54 PM	#14
BigVE Veteran Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: centralKs Casino cash: $10005250	Eh, if your a christian and a person who believes in the bible this is not acceptable as a parent IMO. __________________ Meh.
Posts: 4,829