Chiefs The Film Room aka formerdb: "Chiefs: Quarterbacks and the Coaching"

rico · 10-30-2012, 05:49 PM

http://echointhehead.blogspot.com/20....html?spref=tw

Quarterbacking:

When looking at a QB I strip away the Heisman's, MVP's, Super Bowl's...and just look at how they throw a ball. Natural talent like Peyton Manning is scattered throughout the NFL. There is nothing special about how he throws a football from point A to B...a lot of better balls came out of Jamarcus Russell's arm.

If you just watched Peyton Manning it's is not a pretty site. But there isn't a more efficient player on the move than Peyton Manning. The big key with Manning is he can get to his drops quicker than any player in the NFL even at his size. Meaning he has the ability to throw before a defense can diagnose it's a pass.

Sometimes something as simple as that can turn a rather above average QB into a great one. The elite QB's in the NFL aren't the elite talents in Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning...rather they are the most efficient passers in the NFL. All 4 QB's are versatile enough passers to run the style of offense they run, not based on natural talent rather touch/timing.

If you go out to the yard and toss a football from 10 yards, 20 yards, and 30 yards each throw would be different. The mechanics of those throws will be slightly different. The amount of force will be different as well. Scouting a QB is simply identifying how a QB accounts for it with ability and mechanics.

When pressed I often say that Joe Flacco is my favorite QB in the NFL. Flacco can go the furthest downfield without breaking his mechanics. From 30-40 yards Flacco can still manipulate good touch on the football...personally that control at that distance is something I appreciate over any other passer. Every QB breaks mechanics to launch a ball. It's typically where that break happens is what determines functional arm strength to me.

Stanzi:

I don't love the natural talent but I love the technique. His balance/arm efficiency/functional strength/release point all in my opinion are near elite. Stanzi has the tools to be one of the more efficient passers in the league. The issue with Stanzi goes back to that "break" in mechanics when passing.

Stanzi's mind as a QB doesn't match his skill set. Stanzi plays a power style with a efficient skill set. For me I still love the prospect but at this point his style of play will never allow him to tap into what he can actually excel in. As much as I love Stanzi as an intermediate passer, he is too aggressive and often break excellent mechanics in favor of more aggressive reads.

If anyone ask me who I wanted to start for the Chiefs it was Ricky Stanzi. I wasn't certain he was a better QB than Cassel or Quinn, but I was certain he was a more talented passer. Ultimately the amount of "passes" a QB has determines the versatility of the passing game. A team can have Jerry Rice but if the Quarterback can't beat a cover 3 then it doesn't matter...this team is capped on the amount of routes they can call due to the QB.

Daboll/Cassel:

In the preseason I stressed that Cassel looked better because of the passes he was throwing. Stanzi utilized a completely different set of reads. Stanzi's reads had a higher degree of difficulty. To me every completion or attempt isn't equal. How a QB missed the post on a cover 3 is a lot more intriguing than the QB hitting a slant vs. cover 2.

That's the key issue of the season, the reason for the collapse. Daboll and Crennel picked the wrong QB's to run this offense. They picked the guys that were attempting and hitting the easy reads in the preseason over the guy that was missing on the more aggressive reads. It's basic...if you're playbook has a bunch of deep routes, then get the QB that throws those routes.

What's happening is simple. Because we can't threaten deep teams just bracket underneath. It's a simple adjustment that the Chiefs don't have the ability to get teams out of. In my opinion Quinn nor Cassel have that ability. But that shouldn't be what is derailing this team. Long ago Daboll had to figure his player out.

Daboll was applauding Cassel with hitting Baldwin on a fade vs. cover 1...hitting the TE on a skinny post vs. cover 2. Essentially every team has taken those routes away from this offense. It comes as no shock that we aren't having success passing. The timing is not there because Cassel wasn't forced to work on the timing throughout preseason. Felt nervous that we had a coaching staff that lacked vision.

This offenses talents is suited for movement. Albert, Asomoah, Lilja, Allen, Charles, Moeaki are all suited to play in space...with a few of them being among the more athletic players at their positions in the NFL. Players that are suited to play horizontal are being forced to play vertically. Most are making the transition but our Cassel/Quinn don't have the ability to.

What has changed schematically in Kansas City is simple. We went from a team that ran on the perimeter to a team that runs in the interior. We went from a team that threw a bunch of screens, hooks, hitches, slants to one that uses more vertical routes. For the most part every facet is transitioning to the changes outside of the Quarterback.

Final Thought

Stanzi utilizes the reads that this offense is designed to use. Theoretically those vertical routes are supposed to threaten the safety. Mathematically the threat of the pass should account for an additional defender. Depending on the range of the passing game determines the depth of the secondary. Currently the passing game can't remove a defender in the run game.

Because of the lack of the vertical passing attack defenders are flooded in the intermediate zone...hence why so many deflections are being intercepted. The threat of a vertical passing game removes Chargers safety Eric Weddle and the pick on the deflection doesn't happen. Currently because of Quarterback talent this offense is unable to force that adjustment making our intermediate reads a lower percentage.

Daboll has to understand that...instead of waiting for an adjustment from defenses that won't come. He is going to have to adjust if these are his options at QB. I still believe Cassel can serve a purpose, but he can't run this offense. Daboll has to figure out a way to make his QB better or he will handcuff this team to a bad marriage of natural talent and scheme.

Change has to happen...if Daboll doesn't change he has to go...if Cassel doesn't change then the scheme has to...if the scheme doesn't change then the QB has to. The status quo is flawed and is getting in this teams way.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 10-30-2012, 05:54 PM

Dear lord.

How about we scrap the whole ****ing lot of them?

**SAUTO** · 10-30-2012, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Dear lord.

How about we scrap the whole ****ing lot of them?

This. Fire everybody in the front office.

Fire every coach.

Cut every quarterback.

Pay Bowe. Pay Albert.

Draft Geno Smith no matter what it takes to get there
Posted via Mobile Device

Three7s · 10-30-2012, 06:00 PM

So we're trying to run a vertical offense? Our longest freaking pass play is 40 yards! So the Chiefs have gone half the season and have done NOTHING to address this problem?

Oh wait, sure they did!

Brady freaking Quinn.

sigh

**OnTheWarpath15** · 10-30-2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three7s

So we're trying to run a vertical offense? Our longest freaking pass play is 40 yards! So the Chiefs have gone half the season and have done NOTHING to address this problem?

Oh wait, sure they did!

Brady freaking Quinn.

sigh

Our longest pass play is 40 yards, and that came on a play in which the targeted WR was underthrown and Bowe took over.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 10-31-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Dear lord.

How about we scrap the whole ****ing lot of them?

Why does there even exist a post in which the likes of the absolute dogshit QB's on this team find themselves in the company of Manning?

Maybe Manning needs his car washed...

L.A. Chieffan · 10-30-2012, 05:59 PM

UNCHAIN STANZI!

Hammock Parties · 10-30-2012, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Because of the lack of the vertical passing attack defenders are flooded in the intermediate zone...hence why so many deflections are being intercepted.

But those aren't the QBs fault!!!

**Dave Lane** · 10-30-2012, 06:01 PM

I still would love to see Stanzi for the rest of the season.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-30-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

I still would love to see Stanzi for the rest of the season.

Me, too.

Guaranteed 1-15 and no more Stanzi talk.

**Dave Lane** · 10-30-2012, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Me, too.

Guaranteed 1-15 and no more Stanzi talk.

Either way it's a win.

Hammock Parties · 10-30-2012, 06:01 PM

Quote:

I still believe Cassel can serve a purpose

Hammock Parties · 10-30-2012, 06:02 PM

The fact that anyone would waste that many words about how to fix this crap, with the SAME PLAYERS AND COACHES, is mind bottling.

Just bring in a guy with a flamethrower. Simple.

Tombstone RJ · 10-30-2012, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning

The fact that anyone would waste that many words about how to fix this crap, with the SAME PLAYERS AND COACHES, is mind bottling.

Just bring in a guy with a flamethrower. Simple.

It's "mind boggling" fyi

bishop_74 · 10-30-2012, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

It's "mind boggling" fyi

Somebody makes a mistake years ago and it is replicated around here for years after.

10-30-2012, 05:49 PM	Topic Starter
rico ON CP YOU’RE SOMEBODY’S BITCH! Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Da SEI Casino cash: $4634809	The Film Room aka formerdb: "Chiefs: Quarterbacks and the Coaching" http://echointhehead.blogspot.com/20....html?spref=tw Quarterbacking: When looking at a QB I strip away the Heisman's, MVP's, Super Bowl's...and just look at how they throw a ball. Natural talent like Peyton Manning is scattered throughout the NFL. There is nothing special about how he throws a football from point A to B...a lot of better balls came out of Jamarcus Russell's arm. If you just watched Peyton Manning it's is not a pretty site. But there isn't a more efficient player on the move than Peyton Manning. The big key with Manning is he can get to his drops quicker than any player in the NFL even at his size. Meaning he has the ability to throw before a defense can diagnose it's a pass. Sometimes something as simple as that can turn a rather above average QB into a great one. The elite QB's in the NFL aren't the elite talents in Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning...rather they are the most efficient passers in the NFL. All 4 QB's are versatile enough passers to run the style of offense they run, not based on natural talent rather touch/timing. If you go out to the yard and toss a football from 10 yards, 20 yards, and 30 yards each throw would be different. The mechanics of those throws will be slightly different. The amount of force will be different as well. Scouting a QB is simply identifying how a QB accounts for it with ability and mechanics. When pressed I often say that Joe Flacco is my favorite QB in the NFL. Flacco can go the furthest downfield without breaking his mechanics. From 30-40 yards Flacco can still manipulate good touch on the football...personally that control at that distance is something I appreciate over any other passer. Every QB breaks mechanics to launch a ball. It's typically where that break happens is what determines functional arm strength to me. Stanzi: I don't love the natural talent but I love the technique. His balance/arm efficiency/functional strength/release point all in my opinion are near elite. Stanzi has the tools to be one of the more efficient passers in the league. The issue with Stanzi goes back to that "break" in mechanics when passing. Stanzi's mind as a QB doesn't match his skill set. Stanzi plays a power style with a efficient skill set. For me I still love the prospect but at this point his style of play will never allow him to tap into what he can actually excel in. As much as I love Stanzi as an intermediate passer, he is too aggressive and often break excellent mechanics in favor of more aggressive reads. If anyone ask me who I wanted to start for the Chiefs it was Ricky Stanzi. I wasn't certain he was a better QB than Cassel or Quinn, but I was certain he was a more talented passer. Ultimately the amount of "passes" a QB has determines the versatility of the passing game. A team can have Jerry Rice but if the Quarterback can't beat a cover 3 then it doesn't matter...this team is capped on the amount of routes they can call due to the QB. Daboll/Cassel: In the preseason I stressed that Cassel looked better because of the passes he was throwing. Stanzi utilized a completely different set of reads. Stanzi's reads had a higher degree of difficulty. To me every completion or attempt isn't equal. How a QB missed the post on a cover 3 is a lot more intriguing than the QB hitting a slant vs. cover 2. That's the key issue of the season, the reason for the collapse. Daboll and Crennel picked the wrong QB's to run this offense. They picked the guys that were attempting and hitting the easy reads in the preseason over the guy that was missing on the more aggressive reads. It's basic...if you're playbook has a bunch of deep routes, then get the QB that throws those routes. What's happening is simple. Because we can't threaten deep teams just bracket underneath. It's a simple adjustment that the Chiefs don't have the ability to get teams out of. In my opinion Quinn nor Cassel have that ability. But that shouldn't be what is derailing this team. Long ago Daboll had to figure his player out. Daboll was applauding Cassel with hitting Baldwin on a fade vs. cover 1...hitting the TE on a skinny post vs. cover 2. Essentially every team has taken those routes away from this offense. It comes as no shock that we aren't having success passing. The timing is not there because Cassel wasn't forced to work on the timing throughout preseason. Felt nervous that we had a coaching staff that lacked vision. This offenses talents is suited for movement. Albert, Asomoah, Lilja, Allen, Charles, Moeaki are all suited to play in space...with a few of them being among the more athletic players at their positions in the NFL. Players that are suited to play horizontal are being forced to play vertically. Most are making the transition but our Cassel/Quinn don't have the ability to. What has changed schematically in Kansas City is simple. We went from a team that ran on the perimeter to a team that runs in the interior. We went from a team that threw a bunch of screens, hooks, hitches, slants to one that uses more vertical routes. For the most part every facet is transitioning to the changes outside of the Quarterback. Final Thought Stanzi utilizes the reads that this offense is designed to use. Theoretically those vertical routes are supposed to threaten the safety. Mathematically the threat of the pass should account for an additional defender. Depending on the range of the passing game determines the depth of the secondary. Currently the passing game can't remove a defender in the run game. Because of the lack of the vertical passing attack defenders are flooded in the intermediate zone...hence why so many deflections are being intercepted. The threat of a vertical passing game removes Chargers safety Eric Weddle and the pick on the deflection doesn't happen. Currently because of Quarterback talent this offense is unable to force that adjustment making our intermediate reads a lower percentage. Daboll has to understand that...instead of waiting for an adjustment from defenses that won't come. He is going to have to adjust if these are his options at QB. I still believe Cassel can serve a purpose, but he can't run this offense. Daboll has to figure out a way to make his QB better or he will handcuff this team to a bad marriage of natural talent and scheme. Change has to happen...if Daboll doesn't change he has to go...if Cassel doesn't change then the scheme has to...if the scheme doesn't change then the QB has to. The status quo is flawed and is getting in this teams way.
Posts: 13,257

10-30-2012, 05:54 PM	#2
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $4891115	Dear lord. How about we scrap the whole ****ing lot of them?
Posts: 60,268

10-30-2012, 06:00 PM	#4
Three7s MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10084719	So we're trying to run a vertical offense? Our longest freaking pass play is 40 yards! So the Chiefs have gone half the season and have done NOTHING to address this problem? Oh wait, sure they did! Brady freaking Quinn. sigh __________________ $E:\AlexGordon1-1.jpg$ Want some easy money, click here!
Posts: 6,739

10-30-2012, 05:59 PM	#7
L.A. Chieffan PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: American Gardens Building Casino cash: $4018654	UNCHAIN STANZI!
Posts: 17,368

10-30-2012, 06:01 PM	#9
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	I still would love to see Stanzi for the rest of the season. __________________ Thanks, Trump for the civics lesson. We are learning so much about RICO, espionage, sedition, impeachment, the 25th Amendment, order of succession, nepotism, separation of powers, 1st Amendment, obstruction of justice, the emoluments clause, conflicts of interest, collusion, sanctions, oligarchs, money laundering and so much more.
Posts: 40,584

10-30-2012, 06:02 PM	#13
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4670478	The fact that anyone would waste that many words about how to fix this crap, with the SAME PLAYERS AND COACHES, is mind bottling. Just bring in a guy with a flamethrower. Simple. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 278,041