Did you over-react to the work of Scott Pioli?

[jAZ]

There were a whole lot of people who lost patience with Scott Pioli starting after the hiring of Todd Haley and the 1st pick in the 2009 draft.

The Haley Hire sucked.
The Tyson Jackson pick sucked.
The Cassel/Vrabel trade sucked.
The whole 2009 Draft sucked.
Tamba Hali sucks.
The Dexter McCluster pick sucked.
The Tony Moeaki pick sucked.
The moves on the OL sucked.
The majority of the 2010 draft sucked.
Playing Thomas Jones so much sucks.

What else am I missing?

[Hammock Parties]

His work is still in question. The best players on this team are still Herm and Carl's.

Pioli's roster looks pretty awesome against the NFC West, though.

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by Gif Horse

His work is still in question. The best players on this team are still Herm and Carl's.

Pioli's roster looks pretty awesome against the NFC West, though.

Herm and CP had 2 wins in 2008 with Herm and CPs players.

Haley and Pioli have 4 wins in 2009 and 9 wins in 2010 with Pioli and Haley and Herm and CPs players. Haley and Pioli look pretty awesome relatively speaking.

They will always have more to prove. But everyone who was s#itting their pants over the course of the 1st season, and who refused to wait to see what would happen after 1 or even 2 seasons, have been given more than enough evidence to eat a plate.

I have no idea if you are one of them, because as best as I can tell, you've followed the wind in all directions for 2 years.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by jAZ

everyone who was s#itting their pants over the course of the 1st season, and who refused to wait to see what would happen after 1 or even 2 seasons, have been given more than enough evidence to eat a plate.

Like cdcox said, you don't decide when I eat crow.

Pioli has to fix the front seven and bring in at least one solid starting wide receiver this offseason, or next year we will suffer for it.

I'll eat crow if we make the playoffs next year, because this year (if it happens) I believe, without question, it's going to be because of our weak schedule, not because of Pioli.

FWIW Herm and Carl looked pretty "awesome" when we played the NFC West, in our last playoff season. Awesome enough that I bought in almost completely. It was a mistake.

[Reerun_KC]

How can you over react?

Were message board fans, not NFL exec's....

OVer reacting would be just silly to say the least, it doesnt prove anything...

[chiefsnorth]

I had faith in Pioli all along. Like most people I had doubts Cassel was going to be our guy, and about some of the personnel moves, but it just goes to show you that you can't judge a new regime for about 2 years with any accuracy.

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by Gif Horse

Like cdcox said, you don't decide when I eat crow.

Pioli has to fix the front seven and bring in at least one solid starting wide receiver this offseason, or next year we will suffer for it.

I'll eat crow if we make the playoffs next year, because this year (if it happens) I believe, without question, it's going to be because of our weak schedule, not because of Pioli.

FWIW Herm and Carl looked pretty "awesome" when we played the NFC West, in our last playoff season. Awesome enough that I bought in almost completely. It was a mistake.

You don't have to buy in to the full future success of this team in order to concede that you (well, not you in particular, like I said) jumped the gun last year. If you are willing to take a wait and see approach now, you should have definately taken that approach last season. And if you didn't, then you can at least concede to that fact (which is the point of this thread) today.

There is a middle ground.

[Ming the Merciless]

TJ #1 remains a question...but maybe...

Cassel for a #2 is looking good.

We might get something for Magee

Succop is lookin good...


It is turning out to be an acceptable draft, if Jackson can contribute.....or if Cassel continues looking like this and we get anything out of Magee's pick..

Heck if all of those things miraculously happen it could be looked at as a good draft...

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by jAZ

You don't have to buy in to the full future success of this team in order to concede that you (well, not you in particular, like I said) jumped the gun last year. If you are willing to take a wait and see approach now, you should have definately taken that approach last season. And if you didn't, then you can at least concede to that fact (which is the point of this thread) today.

There is a middle ground.

Well, what you don't really understand is that I wasn't one of those people calling for his head last year.

I took a wait and see approach at the beginning of last year. I even defended his selection of Tyson Jackson.

At the end of the year when it became obvious he had made a bunch of horrible decisions, and when we dumped a bunch of those players before Week 1 this year, I really started to question him. The fact that I hated the selections of McCluster, Arenas and Asamoah only compounded those issues. The fact that our defense has suffered because of those selections doesn't help.

As far as I'm concerned, Pioli had a terrible 2009, a mediocre 2010 (mostly thanks to a pretty solid free agency class) and needs to hit a 450-foot home run in 2011 if this team is going to compete. He's not being paid to be average. He's being paid to be the best. He's the highest paid GM in football.

You could probably say I've hit that middle ground. I don't ****ing loathe Scott Pioli. I just expect a lot more out of him.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

TJ #1 remains a question...but maybe...

Cassel for a #2 is looking good.

We might get something for Magee

Succop is lookin good...


It is turning out to be an acceptable draft, if Jackson can contribute.....or if Cassel continues looking like this and we get anything out of Magee's pick..

Heck if all of those things miraculously happen it could be looked at as a good draft...

Right now, the Cassel trade looks very good but that was pre-destined the minute Pioli was hired. All that was required was to work out the compensation with New England.

The rest of the draft? Pure horseshit.

Succop was Mr. Irrelevant in more ways than one because Connor Barth was very good for the Chiefs in 2008 and has continued to play well for the Tampa Bay Bucs.

One good choice does not make a draft great or even good. And at this point in time, the 2009 draft pales in comparison to 2008 and 2010.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by Gif Horse

Well, what you don't really understand is that I wasn't one of those people calling for his head last year.

I took a wait and see approach at the beginning of last year. I even defended his selection of Tyson Jackson.

At the end of the year when it became obvious he had made a bunch of horrible decisions, and when we dumped a bunch of those players before Week 1 this year, I really started to question him. The fact that I hated the selections of McCluster, Arenas and Asamoah only compounded those issues. The fact that our defense has suffered because of those selections doesn't help.

As far as I'm concerned, Pioli had a terrible 2009, a mediocre 2010 (mostly thanks to a pretty solid free agency class) and needs to hit a 450-foot home run in 2011 if this team is going to compete. He's not being paid to be average. He's being paid to be the best. He's the highest paid GM in football.

You could probably say I've hit that middle ground. I don't ****ing loathe Scott Pioli. I just expect a lot more out of him.

He's a "fraud?"

[Chiefnj2]

Between this years draft and the horrid performance by the team in preseason, I had completely given up all hope in Pioli and Haley and the Chiefs.

I'm pleasantly surprised, although I'm still not thrilled with round 2 of the draft, and I'm not thrilled with not being able to bring in a Boldin.

[jAZ]

First, for the record... again...

Originally Posted by jAZ

You don't have to buy in to the full future success of this team in order to concede that you (well, not you in particular, like I said) jumped the gun last year.

Originally Posted by jAZ

I have no idea if you are one of them, because as best as I can tell, you've followed the wind in all directions for 2 years.

Second...

Originally Posted by Gif Horse

Well, what you don't really understand is that I wasn't one of those people calling for his head last year.

I took a wait and see approach at the beginning of last year. I even defended his selection of Tyson Jackson.

Hahahahahahahaah!

You want credit for taking a wait an see approach before the first season even began!?!

Bwahahahahah!

Originally Posted by Gif Horse

At the end of the year when it became obvious he had made a bunch of horrible decisions, and when we dumped a bunch of those players before Week 1 this year, I really started to question him.

So far you would appear to be describing yourself as someone who took a wait and see approach before the 1st game was even played, and then jumped the gun after the 1st season.

Had you really taken a wait and see approach, you'd have waited until some time during our 2nd season. 2 full draft seasons, 1+ full offseason, 1+ full season. Room for learning on the job and demonstrating the ability to grow.

Had we been at the same point this far into the 2nd season where people started getting pissed last season, there'd be room to start worrying. Prior to that, and particularly at any point before this season started, it's jumping the gun.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'm going to start a thread entitled, "Is it time for the 'told you-so' crowd to shut the **** up?

Yes. I think that would be lovely!


As a fan, I will hate when I damned well feel like hating and give praise when I feel like doing that.

Don't like it? Too ****ing bad.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by jAZ

Had you really taken a wait and see approach, you'd have waited until some time during our 2nd season. 2 full draft seasons, 1+ full offseason, 1+ full season. Room for learning on the job and demonstrating the ability to grow.

What?

Pioli shouldn't have to learn on the job or need to demonstrate an ability to grow.

He's not a rookie. He was the executive of the decade.

He's supposed to be nailing personnel decisions left and right.

I don't see a problem with being disappointed in the guy after it was clear his first year was an abortion, nor do I see a problem with sticking to the idea that he has a lot to prove after he failed to address the front seven this offseason.

Anyone who proclaims him a failure at this point is definitely jumping the gun. I don't think I'm doing that by saying I'm disappointed in what he's produced thus far, and reiterating my desire to see him prove something.

Most people here are going to be firmly in the guy's corner if we field a winning team next year. If he doesn't make the right personnel decisions this offseason it's not going to happen. Why? Because his first two years have been lacking. He can't get away with anything less than stellar at this point, because the competition going forward is going to be tougher.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by ROR

I'm going to start a thread entitled, "Is it time for the 'told you-so' crowd to shut the **** up?

Yes. I think that would be lovely!


As a fan, I will hate when I damned well feel like hating and give praise when I feel like doing that.

Don't like it? Too ****ing bad.

AMEN!

It's ****ing ridiculous... some people seem like they are more concerned about being right or ridiculing someone's 6-month old opinion than what happens on the field.

People really need to get over themselves.