Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

According to this ESPN article:

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/s...b-drug-testing

The sample was in a tupperware container and sat on the collector's desk for the entire weekend. Turns out there were 12 FedEx locations open at the time, so it sounds like the collector royally screwed the pooch on this one.

I think he was taking something. I also think that the sloppy chain of possession opened the door to reasonable doubt (to use a court term).

Apparently the collective bargaining agreement is very anal about how these samples are to be collected and tested, so it is up to the collection agency to meet those standards. If they fail to do so, the MLB should not be surprised when the system lets a player off the hook.

The collector and MLB may have screwed up, but its understandable. I wouldn't go as far as to say they were bumbling fools, because apparently only MLB's policy is this strict. In every olympic sport and in most other professional sports around the world, no one would have cared if the collector didn't rush over to Fedex on a saturday evening. In MLB its apparently a deal-breaker.

[mnchiefsguy]

Originally Posted by alnorth

The collector and MLB may have screwed up, but its understandable. I wouldn't go as far as to say they were bumbling fools, because apparently only MLB's policy is this strict. In every olympic sport and in most other professional sports around the world, no one would have cared if the collector didn't rush over to Fedex on a saturday evening. In MLB its apparently a deal-breaker.

I don't know...that ESPN article sure makes them look like bumbling fools to me. The collector was part-time MLB employee...is MLB so cheap they can't afford to have a full time professional do this? Considering the reputations and dollars that are at stake...having some guy do this as a side gig may not have been the best option.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

I don't know...that ESPN article sure makes them look like bumbling fools to me. The collector was part-time MLB employee...is MLB so cheap they can't afford to have a full time professional do this? Considering the reputations and dollars that are at stake...having some guy do this as a side gig may not have been the best option.

The folks in Montreal are astonished. For the olympics and in other sports, they seem to be saying its fairly common to wait until Monday when collected on a Saturday.

[alnorth]

Chief says Braun wouldn’t have been cleared under WADA code

MONTREAL — The head of the World Anti-Doping Agency says the protocol breach that helped NL MVP Ryan Braun win his doping case would not have yielded the same result in a case that adhered to WADA rules.

Braun’s positive drug test was overturned by an arbitrator who ruled that a two-day delay in delivering his urine sample was a violation of baseball’s drug agreement.

David Howman, the director general of WADA, said in a statement Friday that in a case following WADA code, “the athlete would have to show that the departure from the rule caused the adverse finding. That is not the situation in this case.”

He said the “very experienced” director of the anti-doping lab in Montreal gave evidence that Braun’s sample had not been compromised or tampered with.

[mnchiefsguy]

Originally Posted by alnorth

The folks in Montreal are astonished. For the olympics and in other sports, they seem to be saying its fairly common to wait until Monday when collected on a Saturday.

Seems to me that the waiting till Monday is not the primary problem. It is the leaving the sample in the tupperware dish and putting in on the desk all weekend that is the problem.

Do I think Braun took some stuff he shouldn't have? Yeah. Do I think MLB was a bunch of idiots in how they conduct their testing...after reading about it, I would have to say yes. No reason not to have the most professional procedure in place to do this sort of thing. Having a part-time guy do it and keep the sample unsupervised at his house for a weekend raises an issue.

MLB agreed to the strict terms of the testing. It should have done everything in its power to insure those terms were met. It failed to do so, and lost the appeal.

Hopefully MLB will learn from this and do further tests in a more professional manner, and in keeping with their agreement with the players union.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

Seems to me that the waiting till Monday is not the primary problem. It is the leaving the sample in the tupperware dish and putting in on the desk all weekend that is the problem.

You will need to explain why this is a "problem". The sample was not poured out into a tupperware dish, it was kept triple-sealed in its container, and refrigerated, which is what MLB and the player's union would have expected him to do if he collected on a Sunday.

Braun got off on a meaningless technicality.

[mnchiefsguy]

Originally Posted by alnorth

You will need to explain why this is a "problem". The sample was not poured out into a tupperware dish, it was kept triple-sealed in its container, and refrigerated, which is what MLB and the player's union would have expected him to do if he collected on a Sunday.

Braun got off on a meaningless technicality.

This seems like common sense to me. Given its importance, should a urine sample be kept at some guys house on a desk in a tupperware dish? Again, there were 12...not one, not two...but 12 Fed Ex stations open from which the sample could have been shipped from.

Again, MLB agreed to the strict standard...they even agreed that the burden of proof regarding the chain of evidence was on them.

I agree that Braun got off completely on a technicality...but MLB agreed to the rules, and should be made to play by them. If the tables were reversed, management would not hesitate to hold the players accountable to the letter of the law.

I would not characterize the technicality as meaningless.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

This seems like common sense to me. Given its importance, should a urine sample be kept at some guys house on a desk in a tupperware dish? Again, there were 12...not one, not two...but 12 Fed Ex stations open from which the sample could have been shipped from.

Again, MLB agreed to the strict standard...they even agreed that the burden of proof regarding the chain of evidence was on them.

I agree that Braun got off completely on a technicality...but MLB agreed to the rules, and should be made to play by them. If the tables were reversed, management would not hesitate to hold the players accountable to the letter of the law.

I would not characterize the technicality as meaningless.

You might be misunderstanding me. I'm not necessarily saying the arbitrator made the wrong decision, I don't know the fine details of baseball's drug policy, baseball appeal precedent, etc. I'm not a Brewers fan or have any direct interest in the NL Central race, so I don't really care about that.

I'm interested in whether Braun was guilty, and whether the collector acted reasonably. The answer is yes to both, and Braun would have been nailed by every other sport who tests for this stuff in the world. I don't care if there were eleventy zillion Fedex locations open, I didn't know they were open on Saturday either. Its arguably this guy's job to know every fine archaic rule surrounding collection, but no one else has this idiotic "must ship immediately if possible or the test is void" rule.

It is a meaningless technicality because the violation of the rule had no impact on the result of the test.

[veist]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

This seems like common sense to me. Given its importance, should a urine sample be kept at some guys house on a desk in a tupperware dish? Again, there were 12...not one, not two...but 12 Fed Ex stations open from which the sample could have been shipped from.

Again, MLB agreed to the strict standard...they even agreed that the burden of proof regarding the chain of evidence was on them.

I agree that Braun got off completely on a technicality...but MLB agreed to the rules, and should be made to play by them. If the tables were reversed, management would not hesitate to hold the players accountable to the letter of the law.

I would not characterize the technicality as meaningless.

You keep saying that but it doesn't actually make it true. They're serialized sample collection kits with rigorous safeguards against tampering and it was refrigerated. It was taken by someone who is a professional DCO who was being contracted by the MLB to administer the testing. I mean, this is the same guy that is full trusted to administer the actual testing in regards to getting the sample, preparing the sample for shipment etc. Not just some random dude that picked up a jar of piss and left it at home while he went clubbing. When every major agency in the doping control agency is saying this is a bullshit technicality that he got off on I'm pretty much going to side with them over anything coming out of ESPN who long ago sold off their thin veneer of credibility well before they let Craig James run Mike Leach out of Lubbock on their dime. I mean seriously, there is absolutely no evidence that the sample wasn't his sample, no evidence that the sample was tampered with or doctored in any way and no evidence that there was any degradation of the sample by the extra time it took to be shipped. He got off because the rules were worded poorly and didn't allow for what is standard operating procedure the world over in doping control testing.