Rebel flag is it racist?

Gracie Dean · 10-05-2000, 04:40 PM

Am just curious as to everyone's thoughts

10-05-2000, 04:52 PM

Nope, don't think so but it depends on what one's perception is.

Durtman · 10-05-2000, 04:54 PM

No more so than a swastika.

TheFly · 10-05-2000, 04:57 PM

It was NOT intended to be racist, but the KKK certainly didn't help when they used it as one of their chief symbols.<BR>

BIG_DADDY · 10-05-2000, 05:07 PM

NO, thats ridiculous.

TheFly · 10-05-2000, 05:41 PM

Big Daddy, not sure which post you are referring to...

The history of the rebel flag is one based upon the belief of the southern states in state's rights, including the right to own slaves. The flag was NEVER a "we're racists!" flag... It was in a different time and place... The flag was a "state's rights" flag and to the degree that any state can be oppressive and pass stupid laws, including slave ownership, then you can stretch it into a racist issue.

The Civil War was NOT about racism as much as about the end of slavery. Racism as a cultural issue started long before the civil war and persists to this day. But it had very little to do with the creation and reasoning behind the Confederate flag.

I always find it interesting when folks so easily resort to anecdotes and hyperbole instead of doing their research... But then again, I majored in U.S. history.<BR>

Frazod · 10-05-2000, 05:54 PM

Like the swastika was tainted by the Nazis, the Confederate flag has been tainted by the KKK. Regardless of their origins, they now symbolize oppression to those who had been oppressed by those who sported them. Before being adopted by the Nazis, the swastika was merely an ancient symbol for good luck. Not so lucky anymore.

Being a non-Southern white man who appreciates the historical significance of the rebel flag (not a banner for slavery but rather a symbol of defiance against tyranny) I have no strong feelings about it one way or another. But I certainly understand why blacks don't want to see it. As with the swastika, we can blame the people who adopted it for its bad image.

Idahojim · 10-05-2000, 06:07 PM

Why don't you try marching down the street with one in Harlem. I think you'd get your answer.

Idahojim · 10-05-2000, 06:07 PM

Why don't you try marching down the street with one in Harlem. I think you'd get your answer.

BIG_DADDY · 10-05-2000, 06:43 PM

IdahoJim,
I think that peoples perceptions are often far from reality, especially with this sorry a** media we have in this country. The flag represents MANY things and many different people all struggling to obtain power in this country at that time. Slavery was only one of the issues of the time. It would be a very shallow statement to say it stands for racism. Many people died fighting under that flag and it would be also shallow to assume that all of them were fighting for slavery when that simply wasn't the case.Fact is: Almost all of them did not have slaves and had little gain by passing slavery.Remember that history was written by those who won and this issue has been sensationalized ( is that a word? ) to no end.

chiefs2034 · 10-05-2000, 07:24 PM

hmmmm... is this a chiefs board??? I guess since nothings going on with the team this week people have nothing else to talk anout???

jcl-kcfan · 10-05-2000, 07:53 PM

I think you mean the Confederate Battle Flag, not the Confederate Flag. People that say "that flag is a symbol of racism" are whacked. If anything, they should be against the true bundle of sticks of the Conferacy, not it's battle flag.

And, I don't think it is.

chief_red_pants · 10-05-2000, 08:31 PM

This is a very sensitive issue and one in which you could make enemies. The question however is a compeling one.

It's wrong to stereotype. Its indeed difficult to stereotype a society from a different century. My feeling is that the flag originated among a people who were neglegent to what we know today as human rights. To me the flag represents a dark time in American History.
It pains me to think this. But its arguable, at least where I live, that people who bear the flag, either on thier vehicles or on their person , may indeed share in that neglect in this modern day. Its hard for me to have a positive emotion when I see that flag.

------------------
A Chiefs/Royals/Jayhawks Fan Living Where Cowboys/Rangers/Longhorns Fans Live...Help!

[This message has been edited by chief_red_pants (edited 10-05-2000).]

DJay23 · 10-05-2000, 09:18 PM

As has been mentioned the Civil War was fought over the right of states to exist as enitities, legislatively unhindered by the central government. The flag was and is a symbol that the secessionists used as their emblem. Slavery, was indeed at the heart of the cause of the civil war because it drove the economy of the south and without it, the southern states had crops, but no one to tend or harvest them. The south felt threatened by the election of Abraham Lincoln, on the newly formed Republican ticket, and that they would be encircled and economically strangled in Congress by abolitionists. They felt their only chance to keep their #1 investments were to secede from the USA and so they did, and this was their symbol.

So to stop babbling, I have always been of the mind that the Confederate flag is a symbol in favor of the continuation of the enslavement of innocent humans for economic gain, not necessarily racism. However, I always feel ashamed and saddened when I see it used as a source of pride, like on state flags, and can say that I am offended by it. I am a 23 year old white male from Leavenworth, Kansas so I don't have direct emotional ties to the flag as many southerners do. I guess I am entitled to my opinion as much as the next guy.

[This message has been edited by DJay23 (edited 10-05-2000).]

KCWolfman · 10-05-2000, 10:25 PM

Tim - So if a white extremist group makes its new banner the Stars and Stripes, per your analogy, doesn't that make our flag racist?

All flags have a positive and a negative history. Actually the swastika is a ripoff of an East Indian design that means something akin to peace.

As far as walking in harlem with the confederate battle flag... that is silly. I wouldn't walk in Harlem with 100.00 bills sticking out of my pocket either. Does that mean that the money is racist?

10-05-2000, 04:52 PM	#2
Phobia Guest Casino cash: $	Nope, don't think so but it depends on what one's perception is.
Posts: n/a

10-05-2000, 04:54 PM	#3
Durtman Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	No more so than a swastika.
Posts: 177

10-05-2000, 04:57 PM	#4
TheFly Never Regular... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Irvine, CA, USA Casino cash: $10004900	It was NOT intended to be racist, but the KKK certainly didn't help when they used it as one of their chief symbols.<BR>
Posts: 1,478

10-05-2000, 05:07 PM	#5
BIG_DADDY THE RED MENACE Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Texas Casino cash: $5048410	NO, thats ridiculous.
Posts: 32,384

10-05-2000, 05:41 PM	#6
TheFly Never Regular... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Irvine, CA, USA Casino cash: $10004900	Big Daddy, not sure which post you are referring to... The history of the rebel flag is one based upon the belief of the southern states in state's rights, including the right to own slaves. The flag was NEVER a "we're racists!" flag... It was in a different time and place... The flag was a "state's rights" flag and to the degree that any state can be oppressive and pass stupid laws, including slave ownership, then you can stretch it into a racist issue. The Civil War was NOT about racism as much as about the end of slavery. Racism as a cultural issue started long before the civil war and persists to this day. But it had very little to do with the creation and reasoning behind the Confederate flag. I always find it interesting when folks so easily resort to anecdotes and hyperbole instead of doing their research... But then again, I majored in U.S. history.<BR>
Posts: 1,478

10-05-2000, 04:40 PM
Gracie Dean MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	Am just curious as to everyone's thoughts
Posts: 12,955

10-05-2000, 05:54 PM	#7
Frazod WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $3095085	Like the swastika was tainted by the Nazis, the Confederate flag has been tainted by the KKK. Regardless of their origins, they now symbolize oppression to those who had been oppressed by those who sported them. Before being adopted by the Nazis, the swastika was merely an ancient symbol for good luck. Not so lucky anymore. Being a non-Southern white man who appreciates the historical significance of the rebel flag (not a banner for slavery but rather a symbol of defiance against tyranny) I have no strong feelings about it one way or another. But I certainly understand why blacks don't want to see it. As with the swastika, we can blame the people who adopted it for its bad image.
Posts: 119,492

10-05-2000, 06:07 PM	#8
Idahojim Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Nampa, Idaho, USA Casino cash: $9965995	Why don't you try marching down the street with one in Harlem. I think you'd get your answer.
Posts: 762

10-05-2000, 06:43 PM	#10
BIG_DADDY THE RED MENACE Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Texas Casino cash: $5048410	IdahoJim, I think that peoples perceptions are often far from reality, especially with this sorry a** media we have in this country. The flag represents MANY things and many different people all struggling to obtain power in this country at that time. Slavery was only one of the issues of the time. It would be a very shallow statement to say it stands for racism. Many people died fighting under that flag and it would be also shallow to assume that all of them were fighting for slavery when that simply wasn't the case.Fact is: Almost all of them did not have slaves and had little gain by passing slavery.Remember that history was written by those who won and this issue has been sensationalized ( is that a word? ) to no end.
Posts: 32,384

10-05-2000, 07:24 PM	#11
chiefs2034 Starter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Houston,TX,US Casino cash: $10004900	hmmmm... is this a chiefs board??? I guess since nothings going on with the team this week people have nothing else to talk anout???
Posts: 358

10-05-2000, 07:53 PM	#12
jcl-kcfan Starter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: League City Tx Casino cash: $10004900	I think you mean the Confederate Battle Flag, not the Confederate Flag. People that say "that flag is a symbol of racism" are whacked. If anything, they should be against the true bundle of sticks of the Conferacy, not it's battle flag. And, I don't think it is.
Posts: 239

10-05-2000, 08:31 PM	#13
chief_red_pants Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Burkburnett, TX Casino cash: $10004900	This is a very sensitive issue and one in which you could make enemies. The question however is a compeling one. It's wrong to stereotype. Its indeed difficult to stereotype a society from a different century. My feeling is that the flag originated among a people who were neglegent to what we know today as human rights. To me the flag represents a dark time in American History. It pains me to think this. But its arguable, at least where I live, that people who bear the flag, either on thier vehicles or on their person , may indeed share in that neglect in this modern day. Its hard for me to have a positive emotion when I see that flag. ------------------ A Chiefs/Royals/Jayhawks Fan Living Where Cowboys/Rangers/Longhorns Fans Live...Help! [This message has been edited by chief_red_pants (edited 10-05-2000).]
Posts: 291

10-05-2000, 09:18 PM	#14
DJay23 Rock Chalk Jayhawk Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Williamsport, PA Casino cash: $2933317	As has been mentioned the Civil War was fought over the right of states to exist as enitities, legislatively unhindered by the central government. The flag was and is a symbol that the secessionists used as their emblem. Slavery, was indeed at the heart of the cause of the civil war because it drove the economy of the south and without it, the southern states had crops, but no one to tend or harvest them. The south felt threatened by the election of Abraham Lincoln, on the newly formed Republican ticket, and that they would be encircled and economically strangled in Congress by abolitionists. They felt their only chance to keep their #1 investments were to secede from the USA and so they did, and this was their symbol. So to stop babbling, I have always been of the mind that the Confederate flag is a symbol in favor of the continuation of the enslavement of innocent humans for economic gain, not necessarily racism. However, I always feel ashamed and saddened when I see it used as a source of pride, like on state flags, and can say that I am offended by it. I am a 23 year old white male from Leavenworth, Kansas so I don't have direct emotional ties to the flag as many southerners do. I guess I am entitled to my opinion as much as the next guy. [This message has been edited by DJay23 (edited 10-05-2000).]
Posts: 8,740

10-05-2000, 10:25 PM	#15
KCWolfman Fall down 7 times, get up 8 Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	Tim - So if a white extremist group makes its new banner the Stars and Stripes, per your analogy, doesn't that make our flag racist? All flags have a positive and a negative history. Actually the swastika is a ripoff of an East Indian design that means something akin to peace. As far as walking in harlem with the confederate battle flag... that is silly. I wouldn't walk in Harlem with 100.00 bills sticking out of my pocket either. Does that mean that the money is racist?
Posts: 15,469