Owners of Toyota Cars in Rebellion Over Accidents Caused by Sudden acceleration.

[svuba]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Now you are just being stupid, but that is normal.

Do you remember how the media treated the Explorer/Firstone rollover issue? It was non stop coverage. Have they done the same with this Toyota deal. No.

End of story. Do you have anything to add? I didn't think so, have some rice.

The Explorer issue was totally different. those vehicles were unstable at speed and ford knew about it.

My brother had a blowout in an explorer on the freeway and that ****ing piece of garbage flipped about 10 times. He was medivaced to the hospital and was eventually paid off to shut up.

totally different set of circumstances.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by svuba

The Explorer issue was totally different. those vehicles were unstable at speed and ford knew about it.

My brother had a blowout in an explorer on the freeway and that ****ing piece of garbage flipped about 10 times. He was medivaced to the hospital and was eventually paid off to shut up.

totally different set of circumstances.

Why is that different? Please explain.

You should click some of the links, and read of the information.

Seriously, people are being killed on this deal, it is being deflected as a floor mat issue.
Owners that have had the issue, and lived to tell about it, are insisting that Toyota is wrong about the floor mats.

[svuba]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Why is that different? Please explain.

You should click some of the links, and read of the information.

Seriously, people are being killed on this deal, it is being deflected as a floor mat issue.
Owners that have had the issue, and lived to tell about it, are insisting that Toyota is wrong about the floor mats.

I believe it is different because EVERY SINGLE EXPLORER was inherently unstable, it was a basic design issue not a defect of some sort.

Ford engineers told management the Explorer was unstable and had major handling flaws long before the first Explorer came off the assembly line, but Ford’s decision makers smelled big profits from the “First Mover” market position that the Explorer would give them.

I also think that many of the unintended acceleration issues were simple operator error probably not all of them, but many. Also the unintended acceleration has been used as an excuse for accidents in almost every make of vehicle....se human error.

[Radar Chief]

My understanding of the Explorer / Firestone issue was that the Explorer was an SUV, as in designed for off-road not as an Indy car.
If the people buying SUV’s in the early ‘90’s had bought minivans or sedans instead most probably wouldn’t even know that the Explorer came with Firestone tires.

[svuba]

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

My understanding of the Explorer / Firestone issue was that the Explorer was an SUV, as in designed for off-road not as an Indy car.
If the people buying SUV’s in the early ‘90’s had bought minivans or sedans instead most probably wouldn’t even know that the Explorer came with Firestone tires.

The geometry was bad with these things the high center of gravity and narrow wheelbase made then prone to flipping when other SUV's would not.

In a deposition taken of a Ford engineer, James Mason, Mr. Mason reluctantly admitted (when confronted with Ford documents) that in 1989 he recommended that the Explorer be lowered and widened to increase stability. This recommendation was the result of internal testing by Ford that showed the vehicle was subject to rollover in accident avoidance maneuvers.

In the deposition taken in Hall-Edwards v. Ford, a case in Dade County, Florida, Mr. Mason explained that the reason the vehicle was not made more stable was that Ford did not want to delay the introduction of the Explorer. Accordingly, Ford produced a vehicle they knew was unstable in order to maximize their profits. They did indeed maximize profits; unfortunately, at the cost of hundreds of lives and serious injuries.

In 2006 in a Ford Explorer rollover trial, evidence was introduced that indicated that the Explorer is unstable not only on Firestone tires but also on tires made by Goodyear, Cooper, Michelin's Uniroyal, BF Goodrich, Kelly Springfield, Continental General and other tire manufacturers.

[Radar Chief]

Originally Posted by svuba

The geometry was bad with these things the high center of gravity and narrow wheelbase made then prone to flipping when other SUV's would not.

Before they became popular and degraded down to a glorified minivan, “high center of gravity and narrow wheelbase” described every SUV. Ever heard of the Narrow Track CJ Jeeps? Know how prone they were to rollover?

Originally Posted by svuba

In a deposition taken of a Ford engineer, James Mason, Mr. Mason reluctantly admitted (when confronted with Ford documents) that in 1989 he recommended that the Explorer be lowered and widened to increase stability. This recommendation was the result of internal testing by Ford that showed the vehicle was subject to rollover in accident avoidance maneuvers.

I would agree with his assessment.
In fact, I believe that is exactly what Ford wound up doing to “fix” the rollover problem, lowered the center of gravity and gave it a stiffer suspension for a more car like drive.
Thus reducing its capabilities off road, where SUV’s originated.

[HemiEd]

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by svuba

This page has a good synopsys of all the reported issues It is more widespread than I originally posted, but Again I believe this is more Human error than anything else.

http://www.antony-anderson.com/cruis...nks.html#BUICK

Audi - BMW - Buick - Chrysler - Daewoo - Ford - General Motors - Honda - Jaguar - Land Rover - Mercedes - Mitsubishi - Nissan - Renault - Toyota - Toyota/Lexus - Volvo

Interesting link, thanks. It seems like most of those, prior to the "drive by wire," are cruise control issues, or at least many were.

Originally Posted by svuba

I believe it is different because EVERY SINGLE EXPLORER was inherently unstable, it was a basic design issue not a defect of some sort.

Ford engineers told management the Explorer was unstable and had major handling flaws long before the first Explorer came off the assembly line, but Ford’s decision makers smelled big profits from the “First Mover” market position that the Explorer would give them.

I also think that many of the unintended acceleration issues were simple operator error probably not all of them, but many. Also the unintended acceleration has been used as an excuse for accidents in almost every make of vehicle....se human error.

Actually, it was proven that the Explorer was much less prone to issues when they installed Good Year tires. http://www.fordexplorerrollover.com/...es/Default.cfm
IIRC Firestone refuted all of this claiming owner negligence on under inflation etc. etc.

It will be interesting to see how this Toyota issue ends up.

[C-Mac]

Originally Posted by svuba

The Explorer issue was totally different. those vehicles were unstable at speed and ford knew about it.

My brother had a blowout in an explorer on the freeway and that ****ing piece of garbage flipped about 10 times. He was medivaced to the hospital and was eventually paid off to shut up.

totally different set of circumstances.

Ive seen two different fatalities accidents and several same types of blow out\rollover accidents with a Ford Explorer. Even had a son as a passenger in one, that rolled over. No way I would have one nor let my family ride in one again.