Chiefs Gilberry Penalty - Page 3

Chiefnj2 · 12:27 PM

Was the Gilberry roughing the passer call any different than what happened to Palmer on this play?

Goto first post for how to view.

Mr. Laz · 09-21-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrarian

The flag was for a late hit not unnecessary roughness.

how can it be a late hit when the QB wasn't down by contact yet?

Casselvania · 09-21-2009, 01:37 PM

I felt like it was a judgement call that they should have let go with the game on the line.

**Bwana** · 09-21-2009, 01:40 PM

As I stated in another thread:

Something tells me that the coaching staff will be conducting a "little review of defense 101" pertaining to a QB that is lying on the ground this week.

As I stated above, it may have been a horseshit call, but the officials are going to toss that flag 99% of the time to protect a QB in that situation.

If QB's start going down, the quality of the team's drop off and people start getting a, "why should I watch attitude" hence, the TV viewing and ratings drop off costing the NFL money.

I have no idea if all that would happen, but I guarantee that's the thought process the commissioner has on the subject, which is why the officials will protect QB's at any cost.

orange · 09-21-2009, 01:49 PM

NFL Rulebook:

Article 8 There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be
limited to:
( a) striking an opponent anywhere above the knee with the foot or any part of the leg below the
knee with a whipping motion;
( b) tackling the runner when he is clearly out of bounds;
( c) a member of the receiving team cannot go out of bounds and contact a kicking team player
out of bounds. If this occurs on a kick from scrimmage, post-possession rules would apply
if appropriate (9-1-17);
( d) running or diving into, or throwing the body against or on a ball carrier who falls or slips to
the ground untouched and makes no attempt to advance, before or after the ball is dead;
( e) unnecessarily running, diving into, cutting, or throwing the body against or on a
player who (i) is out of the play or (ii) should not have reasonably anticipated such
contact by an opponent, before or after the ball is dead; or throwing the runner to
the ground after the ball is dead;
( f) contacting a runner out of bounds. Defensive players must make an effort to avoid contact.
Players on defense are responsible for knowing when a runner has crossed the boundary
line, except in doubtful cases where he might step on a boundary line and continue parallel
with it;
( g) using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts)
or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such
violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent,
game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those
players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a player in the act of or just after
throwing a pass, a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass, a runner already in the
grasp of a tackler, a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air, or a player
on the ground at the end of a play). All players in virtually defenseless postures are protected
by the same prohibitions against use of the helmet and facemask that are described
in the roughing-the-passer rules (see Article 11, subsection 3 below of this
Rule 12, Section 2);
( h) a kicker/punter, who is standing still or fading backwards after the ball has been kicked, is
out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the receiving team through the
end of the play or until he assumes a distinctly defensive position. An opponent may not
unnecessarily initiate helmet-to-helmet contact to the kicker/punter during the kick or during
the return.
( i) any player who hooks his fingers under the helmet of an opponent and forcibly twists his
head.
Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards. The player may be disqualified if the
action is judged by the official(s) to be flagrant.

http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/...20RULEBOOK.pdf

It has nothing to do with putting a dress on the QB. It's standard. And has been for years.

Mr. Laz · 09-21-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange

( d) running or diving into, or throwing the body against or on a ball carrier who falls or slips to
the ground untouched and makes no attempt to advance, before or after the ball is dead;

which is fine if the guy is clearly down and all by himself but Russell was in the middle of a collapsing pocket and had barely hit the ground when our guys scrambled on top of him.

Chiefnj2 · 09-21-2009, 01:54 PM

In the Green Bay hit, 4 packers fall on Palmer and one of the hits was much later than Gilberry. I guess there is some discretion on the refs.

orange · 09-21-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

which is fine if the guy is clearly down and all by himself but Russell was in the middle of a collapsing pocket and had barely hit the ground when our guys scrambled on top of him.

Clearly the refs saw it the other way. And neither the tv announcers nor the radio announcers - who have all seen it many, many times before - disagreed.

Here's a link to the specific play with Mitch and Lenny doing the voiceover: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d812ccdc8

Mitch: "You know what? If he wasn't pushed, it's a bad play by Gilberry."

Mr. Laz · 09-21-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange

Clearly the refs saw it the other way. And neither the tv announcers nor the radio announcers - who have all seen it many, many times before - disagreed.

Here's a link to the specific play with Mitch and Lenny doing the voiceover: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d812ccdc8

I've seen it a dozen or more times.

Russell wasn't down
The hit wasn't particularly late
Neither chiefs used their helmet or shoulder pads to "spear" into the guy

It was a lame ass call

mitch holthus wouldn't have a career if he hadn't started licking Carl Peterson's anus on a daily basis.

Chiefnj2 · 09-21-2009, 02:01 PM

Gilberry's forearm to the head didn't help.

Mr. Laz · 09-21-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Gilberry's forearm to the head didn't help.

how could he possibly of hit Russell with his forearm when he was coming from Russell's feet?

You think he could manage to go over Russell's huge belly and still his it peanut head?

i think not

GoHuge · 09-21-2009, 02:39 PM

For those of you surprised by the call you either don't watch much NFL football, are a reerun, or a combinationof both. WhyTF is this still being talked about? Didn't decide the game. Murphy caught a 19 yarder directly after so they would have gotten a first down any way. Our defense and Pendergast's playcalling lost the game. That was how we lost the game on that series. We lost it in all kinds of ways on several different series. The score could have been 27-6 Chiefs or just as easily 13-3 Raiders. Both teams made game winning/losing plays all day long.

Hydrae · 09-21-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

how could he possibly of hit Russell with his forearm when he was coming from Russell's feet?

You think he could manage to go over Russell's huge belly and still his it peanut head?

i think not

Did you watch the replay linked earlier in the thread? Not the first go round from a distance but the second time they show the play from a closer angle. He absolutely hits him in the helmet with his forearm, maybe even both of them.

of course the ref that threw the flag was behind Gilberry and would not have been able to see the hit to the head but still, it did happen.

Mr. Laz · 09-21-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoHuge39

WhyTF is this still being talked about? .

because we wanna

ForeverChiefs58 · 09-21-2009, 03:28 PM

JR could have very easily advanced the ball. No one touched him so he could get up and throw it, or just tossed the ball to a raider player while lying there like a turtle on his back. Its not the Chiefs fault he didn't do that because he is so much more Leaf than Manning. A good QB could have still advanced that ball, the Chiefs made sure that didn't happen so we win!

KCrockaholic · 09-21-2009, 03:49 PM

I see no difference. The Chiefs-Raiders ref crew was penatly happy. It pisses me off when the ref determine the outcome of a football game. Say we had the GB-CIN ref crew, we probably would not have been penalized. Its like in school when a teacher determines the outcome of your grade, when say you had a different teacher and you put out the same effort in class you get a different grade just because the teacher feels like it. Understand my analogy?

09-21-2009, 11:57 AM
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7873688	Gilberry Penalty Was the Gilberry roughing the passer call any different than what happened to Palmer on this play? Goto first post for how to view. Last edited by Chiefnj2; 09-21-2009 at 12:27 PM.. Reason: wrong link
Posts: 22,393

09-21-2009, 01:37 PM	#32
Casselvania Rookie Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Tulsa, OK Casino cash: $10004900	I felt like it was a judgement call that they should have let go with the game on the line.
Posts: 17

09-21-2009, 01:40 PM	#33
Bwana It's Five O'Clock Somewhere Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Billings, Montana Casino cash: $2139443647	As I stated in another thread: Something tells me that the coaching staff will be conducting a "little review of defense 101" pertaining to a QB that is lying on the ground this week. As I stated above, it may have been a horseshit call, but the officials are going to toss that flag 99% of the time to protect a QB in that situation. If QB's start going down, the quality of the team's drop off and people start getting a, "why should I watch attitude" hence, the TV viewing and ratings drop off costing the NFL money. I have no idea if all that would happen, but I guarantee that's the thought process the commissioner has on the subject, which is why the officials will protect QB's at any cost. __________________ Adventure is dangerous....but monotony can kill you.
Posts: 69,761

09-21-2009, 01:49 PM	#34
orange MVP Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Denver, CO Casino cash: $10004900	NFL Rulebook: Article 8 There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be limited to: ( a) striking an opponent anywhere above the knee with the foot or any part of the leg below the knee with a whipping motion; ( b) tackling the runner when he is clearly out of bounds; ( c) a member of the receiving team cannot go out of bounds and contact a kicking team player out of bounds. If this occurs on a kick from scrimmage, post-possession rules would apply if appropriate (9-1-17); ( d) running or diving into, or throwing the body against or on a ball carrier who falls or slips to the ground untouched and makes no attempt to advance, before or after the ball is dead; ( e) unnecessarily running, diving into, cutting, or throwing the body against or on a player who (i) is out of the play or (ii) should not have reasonably anticipated such contact by an opponent, before or after the ball is dead; or throwing the runner to the ground after the ball is dead; ( f) contacting a runner out of bounds. Defensive players must make an effort to avoid contact. Players on defense are responsible for knowing when a runner has crossed the boundary line, except in doubtful cases where he might step on a boundary line and continue parallel with it; ( g) using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass, a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass, a runner already in the grasp of a tackler, a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air, or a player on the ground at the end of a play). All players in virtually defenseless postures are protected by the same prohibitions against use of the helmet and facemask that are described in the roughing-the-passer rules (see Article 11, subsection 3 below of this Rule 12, Section 2); ( h) a kicker/punter, who is standing still or fading backwards after the ball has been kicked, is out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the receiving team through the end of the play or until he assumes a distinctly defensive position. An opponent may not unnecessarily initiate helmet-to-helmet contact to the kicker/punter during the kick or during the return. ( i) any player who hooks his fingers under the helmet of an opponent and forcibly twists his head. Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be flagrant. http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/...20RULEBOOK.pdf It has nothing to do with putting a dress on the QB. It's standard. And has been for years.
Posts: 11,661

09-21-2009, 01:54 PM	#36
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7873688	In the Green Bay hit, 4 packers fall on Palmer and one of the hits was much later than Gilberry. I guess there is some discretion on the refs. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,393

09-21-2009, 02:01 PM	#39
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7873688	Gilberry's forearm to the head didn't help. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,393

09-21-2009, 02:39 PM	#41
GoHuge The Truth Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Overland Park Casino cash: $10006072	For those of you surprised by the call you either don't watch much NFL football, are a reerun, or a combinationof both. WhyTF is this still being talked about? Didn't decide the game. Murphy caught a 19 yarder directly after so they would have gotten a first down any way. Our defense and Pendergast's playcalling lost the game. That was how we lost the game on that series. We lost it in all kinds of ways on several different series. The score could have been 27-6 Chiefs or just as easily 13-3 Raiders. Both teams made game winning/losing plays all day long.
Posts: 3,991

09-21-2009, 03:28 PM	#44
ForeverChiefs58 MVP Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $2825326	JR could have very easily advanced the ball. No one touched him so he could get up and throw it, or just tossed the ball to a raider player while lying there like a turtle on his back. Its not the Chiefs fault he didn't do that because he is so much more Leaf than Manning. A good QB could have still advanced that ball, the Chiefs made sure that didn't happen so we win!
Posts: 10,528

09-21-2009, 03:49 PM	#45
KCrockaholic Sarcasm Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Olathe Casino cash: $4712900	I see no difference. The Chiefs-Raiders ref crew was penatly happy. It pisses me off when the ref determine the outcome of a football game. Say we had the GB-CIN ref crew, we probably would not have been penalized. Its like in school when a teacher determines the outcome of your grade, when say you had a different teacher and you put out the same effort in class you get a different grade just because the teacher feels like it. Understand my analogy?
Posts: 21,133