HBO greenlights A Game of Thrones pilot!

[keg in kc]

EDIT: Changed the original header to mark this as the thread where spoilers are allowed (but not necessarily recommended...). Created a new, spoiler-free thread for Ice and Fire virgins...


This is awesome...

Huge, Huge News

Nov. 11th, 2008 at 10:29 PM

HBO has given the production order.

They will be filming the pilot episode of A GAME OF THRONES.

It's just the pilot so far. They'll need to see that before they decide whether to proceed with a full season's episodes. So let's all hope the pilot will kick serious ass.

It should. David Benioff and Dan Weiss did a terrific job with the script. And yes, all of you can relax, it's very faithful. Dan and David will be the executive producers for the pilot and (we hope) the eventual series.

More details when I have 'em. The news is very fresh. HBO just issued their own press release, which should be up on their website soon, if it's not there already.

Winter is coming to HBO. Hot damn.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Honestly, the TV show is a lot harder to get past for me than the books, even when the content is the same. Maybe I'm just a visual person, but I can deal with "the six year old kid was sucking on his mom's tit" on the page (paraphrasing obviously), but seeing it on the screen made me cringe a bit.

Yes. As long as we are being honest about it, it isn't JUST the fact that the bro-sis are having an Arkansas honeymoon. It is the fact they go at it hard and heavy with much pleasure, like the scene in the castle where the little boy climbs up and sees bro hitting sis doggy style.
I realize it is fiction but EEEEEEWWWWWWHHHHHHH!

Side note: I'm feeling really sorry for the fat kid who can't fight yet has been sent to the wall. They do a great job of making him a pitiful character.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by allen_kcCard

It can be hard to see on some of it, I agree, but I am glad they didn't try to gloss over that aspect. I guess I would rather they err on the side of Loras sucking off Renly to not leave some of the hinted at things in the book than to try to paint a tamer version of some of the characters that clearly have serious flaws about them.

I abhorred the Loras stuff at first, but the more I have thought on it, if it is hinted at in the books, as it has been, then I'd just assume clear things up now and paint them for who they are right away. I do hope that they do some things to show the Loras that is a great knight in skill instead of lancing in the bedroom.

Perfect illustration for why DVR is a good thing and FF is even better.
As to the other graphic sex & violence scenes: bring them on. Graphic reality is what makes HBO king of the tv series.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

The slurping noises were over the top even for an HBO show .

[DJ's left nut]

Regarding the Renly/Loras thing - my Gaydar must be way WAAAY off. People say it's 'hinted at' and I think the strongest hint comes clearly in the 2nd book. During the fest after Renly's Melee, there is a line that there's simply no way I'd have really given weight to had I not seen this episode.

It something along the lines of "Renly occasionally chatted and softly kissed his young wife, but the majority of his jests were in the direction of sir Loras...."

That's it? From that we get shaven nipples and cocksucking? I'll say this, even if Martin wanted there to be gay overtones to the story, they are so damn ancillary as to not merit the time given to it. They're trying to cram 800 pages into something like 8 hours of film (it's about 36 hours of spoken text); all they're doing with that is waste time better spent on more interesting elements to the story.

[NewChief]

For those who are really interested in the "hints" of Renly and Loras being gay... read in the spoiler tags. Also, GRRM has said he intended it in interviews. Not trying to defend HBO's depiction, I'm just providing information.

http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chr...renly_gay.html

Spoiler!

Are Loras and Renly Gay?

Throughout the series, the reader is given an outside look at the relationship between Renly Baratheon and Loras Tyrell. While, at first glance, it seems that it is nothing but innocuous friendship, there are some clues to suggest that their love for each other goes beyond mere companionship. In fact, it seems likely that the two men may be gay lovers. The evidence comes only in small bits and pieces, but, when pieced together, paints an interesting picture.

I. THOUGHTS ON RENLY

Lots of rumors seems to circulate around Westeros concerning Renly. Let's take a look at a few.

1) Margaery's Maidenhood

Renly's own brother seems to doubt his sexuality. From ACOK p478, a conversation between Renly and Stannis:

"...I got Margaery. You'll be pleased to know she came to me a maid."

"In your bed she's like to die that way."

This could be mindless sibling banter, but Stannis seems like an honest man, and his words imply that Renly is less than infatuated with women. Mace Tyrell swears the Margaery is still a virgin when she marries Joffrey, so it appears that Stannis was correct in this.

2) Renly's Servants

Tyrion hires some of Renly's old servants, in ASOS p655.

Varys had suggested the woman to him; in former days, she had run Lord Renly's household in the city, which had given her a great deal of practice at being blind, deaf and mute.

What secret could Renly have that his servants must keep quiet about? There could be plenty of options, but homosexuality seems the most likely.

3) The Rainbow Guard

Instead of a standard Kingsguard, Renly decides to call his group the "Rainbow Guard." Since in our world, rainbows are often a sign of homosexuality, this could be GRRM adding a little joke to imply that Renly is gay. Of course, it could just be coincidental.

4) Fashion Sense

Renly also has a reputation for being well into fashion and the best dressed man at court (AGOT p191). Since such fashion sense in a male is another sign of being gay in our world, this could be another clue put in to help point out Renly's doubtful heterosexuality.

II. THOUGHTS ABOUT LORAS

If anything, Loras just as many rumors floating around about him as Renly, all of them pointing toward the fact that he might just be gay.

1) The Knight O'Pansies

On ACOK p466, Chiswyck tells his friends a story of what Gregor did after he was defeated by Loras in the Hand's Tourney. He mentions that Gregor was "brooding on the Knight o' Pansies and that bugger's trick he played." On one hand, this seems to imply that there are well-known rumors that Loras is gay. On the other hand, of course Gregor would be upset that he was defeated, and want to believe such rumors.

2) Garlan's Remarks

Like Renly, Loras also has his brother seemingly believing that he is gay. Garlan makes a strange remark to Sansa during her wedding:

"Loras is valiant and handsome and we all love him dearly...but your Imp will make a better husband."

ASOS p322

Now Garlan is known to be chivalrous, and he could be simply trying to soothe Sansa over her forced marriage. But again, he seems to be implying that Loras would not make a good husband. Why?

3) The Kingsguard and Littlefinger's Remarks

While on route to the Vale, Littlefinger explains some political things to Sansa. Among them, he mentions why Loras joined the Kingsguard:

"And it relieved him {Mace} of the difficult task of trying to find lands and a bride for a third son, never easy, and doubly difficult in Ser Loras's case."

ASOS p769

Of course, it does make sense to have a third son join the Kingsguard, saving the trouble of finding marriage arrangements for him. But Littlefinger's line "doubly difficult in Ser Loras's case" implies that there were more reasons. Why would finding marriage for Loras be more difficult? If he is gay, the problem is solved when he joins the Kingsguard, as the White Swords are sworn to chastity.

4) Loras and Sansa

When Loras speaks with Sansa on ASOS p64, the conversation eventually comes around to Renly. Loras grows angry and sullen at Renly's mention, and quickly changes the subject. Why? Perhaps Loras is just feeling the loss of a close friend...or perhaps it is the loss of a lover.

5) Robar Royce and Emmon Cuy

After Loras discovers that Renly is dead, he himself kills Ser Robar Royce and Ser Emmon Cuy, the two Rainbow Guard knights that swore to protect him. His wrath seems a bit much for the loss of a friend, implying that Renly meant something more to Loras.

III. RUMORS OF THE COUPLE

Just as rumours circulate around about each man individually, just as many get out about the pair, most of them implying a gay relationship.

1) The Feast at Bitterbridge

On ACOK p348, Renly is feasting with his host at Bitterbridge. There, Catelyn notes that he pays little attention to his new bride Margaery, but instead spends his time laughing and joking with Loras. By all accounts, Margaery is very attractive, so why would Renly ignore her for Loras? It could be close friendship, or perhaps something more...

2) "Renly's Little Rose"

Oberyn Martell has some choice words about Renly and Loras in his conversation with Tyrion on ASOS p437:

"There are those who say that Ser Loras is better than Leo Longthorn ever was," said Tyrion.

"Renly's little rose? I doubt that."

Oberyn's remark clearly shows that he, at least, believed there to be a gay relationship between the couple. Of course, he could only be going off false rumors, but combined with the other evidence, it seems unlikely.

3) Jaime's Remarks

Jaime becomes angry at Loras when returning to King's Landing, and adds to the rumors we know about Loras and Renly.

"Now sheathe your bloody sword, or I'll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found."

ASOS p698

Another definite implication of a homosexual relationship between Loras and Renly. But again, perhaps Jaime is only referring to false rumors.

4) Loras's Old Flame

On ASOS p137, Tyrion has a conversation with Loras. The talking eventually comes around to why Loras would join the Kingsguard instead of getting married. Loras remarks that he once loved somebody but

"When the sun has set, no candle can replace it."

Now who is Loras's old love and what happened to them? Certainly, there could be lovers in Loras's past that we know nothing about, but Renly fits the description to a tee.

5) Loras's Remarks on Renly

Loras has some choice words to say about Renly on ASOS p759. After expressing extreme anger over Renly's death, he goes on to say:

"I buried him with mine own hands, at a place he showed me once when I was a squire at Storm's End. No one shall ever find him there to disturb his rest." He looked at Jaime definatly. "I will defend King Tommen with all my strength, I swear it. I will give my life for his if need be. But I will never betray Renly, by word or deed. He was the king that should have been. He was the best of them."

These emotional words imply that there was a romantic bond between Loras and Renly. The fact that Renly showed Loras secret places in Storm's End suggests that they had a particularity close relationship.

6) "Praying"

It seems quite possible that Loras and Renly could have had a sexual encounter while praying the night before Renly's death. As the night falls, Renly asks to see Loras alone.

"Loras, stay and help me pray. It's been so long I've quite forgotten how."

ACOK p483

By all accounts, they were alone all night, and Loras later refers to that night.

"We had...we had prayed together that night."

ASOS p760

Notice that Loras hesitates before saying what he and Renly did together. Why the hesitation? Perhaps Loras was just flustered while thinking about his dead friend... or perhaps something else occurred that night besides praying.

Conclusion

In conclusion, it seems quite likely that there was a gay relationship between Loras and Renly. Numerous characters such as Chiswyck, Oberyn, Jaime, Tyrion and Littlefinger all seem to have heard rumors of the couple's homosexuality. Even there own kin, Stannis and Garlan, seem to think that their brother might be gay. Coupled with Loras's emotional feelings and words whenever he refers to Renly, it certainly seems extremely likely that he was gay lovers with Renly.

[keg in kc]

Can't be, there's no gay people in fantasy. Just like there was no cussing in the wild west.

[DJ's left nut]

I have a casting complaint:

Varys - worst casting of the show, IMO. The words I tend to associate with Varys are things like 'slither' and 'crawl'. When I read about Varys, I see Michael Stipe. I see a tall, skinny bastard with pointed features and a nasal voice. I don't see that chubby guy. (Littlefinger is perfect though, absolutely perfect).

Character note:

Spoiler!

I've come to realize something about the characters in these books. All of these characters have serious weaknesses that arise, often, from their strengths. Even the 'best' of the lot - Ned - essentially caused a war because he was too proud to bide his time a bit or perhaps just let bygones be bygones. Tens of thousands will die in a war and to what end? The the realm would've been far better served had he just stayed in Winterfell or had he not been so damn stubborn and unwavering. What makes him a great man also destroys the kingdom in the end.

Alternatively, virtually every character (sans Joffrey) has some kind of redeeming value to them (Joffrey really is a worthless ****). Even Cersei has some points where you think much of what she does is in her childrens' best interests. Or perhaps a wife scorned by the fact that her husband never loved over lyanna stark. These are just fantastic characters.

[Huffmeister]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Varys - worst casting of the show, IMO. The words I tend to associate with Varys are things like 'slither' and 'crawl'. When I read about Varys, I see Michael Stipe. I see a tall, skinny bastard with pointed features and a nasal voice. I don't see that chubby guy.

That's weird, because Varys looks almost 100% how I envisioned him. I'm pretty sure somewhere early on in the books there's a pretty good description of him as a bald, powdered, fat man in robes and sandals.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Huffmeister

That's weird, because Varys looks almost 100% how I envisioned him. I'm pretty sure somewhere early on in the books there's a pretty good description of him as a bald, powdered, fat man in robes and sandals.

Same here.

[KcMizzou]

Originally Posted by Huffmeister

That's weird, because Varys looks almost 100% how I envisioned him. I'm pretty sure somewhere early on in the books there's a pretty good description of him as a bald, powdered, fat man in robes and sandals.

He's the eunch, right? Casting seems about perfect as far a physical appearances go.

[keg in kc]

Varys looks exactly how I thought he was described in the books.

[Frazod]

The only actor who really doesn't match my mental picture at all is the one who plays Cate. I pictured her as much more attractive.

[Huffmeister]

Originally Posted by frazod

The only actor who really doesn't match my mental picture at all is the one who plays Cate. I pictured her as much more attractive.

That's pretty much my thought about Cersei. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so it really doesn't bother me that much. I still think that Renly was mis-cast.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Huffmeister

That's pretty much my thought about Cersei. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so it really doesn't bother me that much. I still think that Renly was mis-cast.

Cersei has that "I was hot before life kicked my ass" look about her. Cate's just plain plain.

[allen_kcCard]

Anyone going to watch the sneak peek of next weeks episode online on Sunday?

At first I was like hell yeah, and was going to see about hooking up a computer to my TV to watch it, but then I though about having to wait for two weeks for a new episode and had second thoughts.

Sunday is titled "The Golden Crown" so I am stoked with seeing that played out, and everything is about to his the fan across the board as it is.