Any fishkeepers here? Saltwater or freshwater

[Silock]

So, I've been perusing Craigslist. Seems like there are a ton of deals on 100+ gal tanks.

I want to do freshwater, though. I want Dwarf Hairgrass to cover the bottom. I love the way it looks when it's all over. So lush and green.

And then I'm going to just put a bunch of schools of peaceful, non-aggressive fish in there, like Neon Tetras, mollies, danios, killfish, a betta, discus, fancy guppies, gouramis, and swordtails. I've had cichlids before in the same tank with barbs, and they did okay. So, with such a large tank, I might be able to get away with one or two, but if I do, they'll come dead last.

What kind of filtration system should I go with? And heater? I've been reading that I should probably stay away from an undergravel filter because of the size of the tank.

Does that sound like a good plan?

[Lumpy]

That's a start! You will need a pretty good light fixture to get your Dwarf Hairgrass to grow right. Depending on the size of the tank you get, a T5HO fixture should do the trick. The only problem is, if you go w/ a high wattage fixture like that, you would need to run a CO2 system or else you will have an algae bloom like you wouldn't believe!

A CO2 system is also expensive and can be too complex for beginners. Which is why I never went w/ CO2. I have a low-med light setup and dose a liquid form of CO2 called Excel. Originally I had a single T5 fixture, but I noticed that my plants were dying off. Then, last week, I added another T5 fixture and BOOYAH! they're taking off.

Planted tanks are a lot of fun, but if you're new to the hobby, it would be best to start out w/ low and move up to high. This way you can get a routine going w/ dosing fertilizers, and adjusting your photoperiod, (how much light exposure your plants will get during the day).

About your stock idea, it sounds good, except w/ the Mollies, Discus, and Cichlids.

Mollies are Brackish fish and may or may not do well in a freshwater tank. I had 3 Gold Dust Mollies in mine, and they did "ok", but they require a certain amount of salt in the water to keep them healthy. I would just substitute Mollies w/ Swordtails if you're looking at getting a nice group of livebearers.

As far as Discus, from what I hear, they can become aggressive and should be kept in a Discus only tank. The Cichlids in a community tank is a really bad idea. They are way too aggressive! Even if they don't technically "kill" any of your community fish, they could stress them out to the point where they could die.

Undergravel filters suck ass! Seriously! I had a partial UGF setup in my tank for about 4 months until I finally had it w/ the amount of crap/debris getting clogged beneath the grates. If you're looking at a tank larger than 75 gallons, I would suggest going w/ a Canister filter. Otherwise, there are some really nice Hang-On-Back filters. Just make sure that you get a filter that will accommodate your tank size.

Heaters are heaters, but just make damn sure it is made for your tank size. The best place to start would be to cruise the Petco/Petsmart sites and read reviews. While you're on the sites, you can also check out their fish and write down the names of the ones you like... then research away! Also, Petco has a compatibility table that will help guide you in your selection.

JFC! I wrote a damn novel!

Anyway, there's a lot to learn, but it sounds like you're motivated to get into the hobby. Just take things slow, research everything, let the info sink in, and never feel like an ass if you need to ask questions.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

That's a start! You will need a pretty good light fixture to get your Dwarf Hairgrass to grow right. Depending on the size of the tank you get, a T5HO fixture should do the trick. The only problem is, if you go w/ a high wattage fixture like that, you would need to run a CO2 system or else you will have an algae bloom like you wouldn't believe!

A CO2 system is also expensive and can be too complex for beginners. Which is why I never went w/ CO2. I have a low-med light setup and dose a liquid form of CO2 called Excel. Originally I had a single T5 fixture, but I noticed that my plants were dying off. Then, last week, I added another T5 fixture and BOOYAH! they're taking off.

Planted tanks are a lot of fun, but if you're new to the hobby, it would be best to start out w/ low and move up to high. This way you can get a routine going w/ dosing fertilizers, and adjusting your photoperiod, (how much light exposure your plants will get during the day).

About your stock idea, it sounds good, except w/ the Mollies, Discus, and Cichlids.

Mollies are Brackish fish and may or may not do well in a freshwater tank. I had 3 Gold Dust Mollies in mine, and they did "ok", but they require a certain amount of salt in the water to keep them healthy. I would just substitute Mollies w/ Swordtails if you're looking at getting a nice group of livebearers.

As far as Discus, from what I hear, they can become aggressive and should be kept in a Discus only tank. The Cichlids in a community tank is a really bad idea. They are way too aggressive! Even if they don't technically "kill" any of your community fish, they could stress them out to the point where they could die.

Undergravel filters suck ass! Seriously! I had a partial UGF setup in my tank for about 4 months until I finally had it w/ the amount of crap/debris getting clogged beneath the grates. If you're looking at a tank larger than 75 gallons, I would suggest going w/ a Canister filter. Otherwise, there are some really nice Hang-On-Back filters. Just make sure that you get a filter that will accommodate your tank size.

Heaters are heaters, but just make damn sure it is made for your tank size. The best place to start would be to cruise the Petco/Petsmart sites and read reviews. While you're on the sites, you can also check out their fish and write down the names of the ones you like... then research away! Also, Petco has a compatibility table that will help guide you in your selection.

JFC! I wrote a damn novel!

Anyway, there's a lot to learn, but it sounds like you're motivated to get into the hobby. Just take things slow, research everything, let the info sink in, and never feel like an ass if you need to ask questions.

I'm trying to decide if DJ's or Lumpy knows more on the subject at hand... it's a face off!

[Lumpy]

Originally Posted by beer me

I'm trying to decide if DJ's or Lumpy knows more on the subject at hand... it's a face off!

DJ definitely knows his shit! I think he has me beat though... I know absolutely nothing about Cichlids.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

DJ definitely knows his shit! I think he has me beat though... I know absolutely nothing about Cichlids.

Well much obliged, Lumpy.

I'll graciously concede that freshwater crown to you, though (or htismaqe w/ the late run). I know a fair amount about cichlids and that's about it. Everything else I just kinda chuck in there and hope they live.

When you have to cross your fingers and pray that your $100 Clown Tang starts eating in the 10 or so days it's going to have before it starves to death (and invariably it won't), you develop something of a callous attitude about the loss of a .99 cent molly. So I've not done nearly the homework I should on community fish.

And the plants are way above my head.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Well much obliged, Lumpy.

I'll graciously concede that freshwater crown to you, though (or htismaqe w/ the late run). I know a fair amount about cichlids and that's about it. Everything else I just kinda chuck in there and hope they live.

When you have to cross your fingers and pray that your $100 Clown Tang starts eating in the 10 or so days it's going to have before it starves to death (and invariably it won't), you develop something of a callous attitude about the loss of a .99 cent molly. So I've not done nearly the homework I should on community fish.

And the plants are way above my head.

I've got two mollies left in my FW tank - they were born in the tank before I was wise to how much of a nuisance livebearers are. And of course, because I don't really care much for them, they're as healthy as an fish you'll ever see.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I've got two mollies left in my FW tank - they were born in the tank before I was wise to how much of a nuisance livebearers are. And of course, because I don't really care much for them, they're as healthy as an fish you'll ever see.

I had some tank-born cichilds that were freakin' indestructible.

I never figured out what was paired with what, but they were pretty obviously some form of pseudotropheus. The damn things were all the same orange color, even though I didn't have any red zebras in the tank.

It was kinda neat watching 'em because you could start to figure out which ones had a chance to survive. Every now and then you'd see one motoring about in the open water and you knew it was dead to rights. Then you'd see this tiny little orange dot stick its head out from under a rock then dart right under as soon as it saw you. You knew that one had kinda figured out that every other living thing in that tank would eat it so it had to lay low for a bit.

the mouthbrooders are kinda cool, until you end up with a tank full of orange mutt cichlids.

Originally Posted by htismaqe

My next large tank is gonna be Mbuna cichlids. I just haven't been able to talk my wife into it yet since I have 2 tanks and a large koi pond already.

I'm gonna flip back. My community tank sucks, I'm bored to death of it. I think I'm just going to drain it altogether and pitch the gravel (black and white gravel I've had since 2002). I'm going to go with fine sand as the substrate and either make a Tanganyika/Rainbow tank or just go back to the Mbunas. In either event, I've learned a lot more about rockscaping since I set up my saltwater tank, so I'm going to go pretty heavy on rock to make it work a little better.

It will take the better part of a weekend and the tank's in my office, so it will probably have to wait until after the holidays...at which time I will probably decide that it's not worth the effort again and just get a blue-jaw trigger for the reef...

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

That's a start! You will need a pretty good light fixture to get your Dwarf Hairgrass to grow right. Depending on the size of the tank you get, a T5HO fixture should do the trick. The only problem is, if you go w/ a high wattage fixture like that, you would need to run a CO2 system or else you will have an algae bloom like you wouldn't believe!

Will algae be a problem even if the tank is completely out of sunlight and only gets light from the lights? I'm putting it in the basement outside of the theater room, and there aren't any windows down there.

If not, what kind of grass can I get to grow on the bottom of the tank that isn't too difficult? Is there such a thing? If there isn't, then I'll have to learn a CO2 system, I guess. It's the only way my wife will sign off on the freshwater vs. saltwater (because it's the only way the tank looks "pretty" to her).

Planted tanks are a lot of fun, but if you're new to the hobby, it would be best to start out w/ low and move up to high. This way you can get a routine going w/ dosing fertilizers, and adjusting your photoperiod, (how much light exposure your plants will get during the day).

What do you mean by this?

Mollies are Brackish fish and may or may not do well in a freshwater tank. I had 3 Gold Dust Mollies in mine, and they did "ok", but they require a certain amount of salt in the water to keep them healthy. I would just substitute Mollies w/ Swordtails if you're looking at getting a nice group of livebearers.

Noted.

As far as Discus, from what I hear, they can become aggressive and should be kept in a Discus only tank. The Cichlids in a community tank is a really bad idea. They are way too aggressive! Even if they don't technically "kill" any of your community fish, they could stress them out to the point where they could die.

Also noted. Liveaquaria says they're peaceful (Discus) and would get along, but I guess they're wrong.

If you're looking at a tank larger than 75 gallons, I would suggest going w/ a Canister filter. Otherwise, there are some really nice Hang-On-Back filters. Just make sure that you get a filter that will accommodate your tank size.

What's the quietest option?

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Silock

What's the quietest option?

EHEIM! I had one of these

(well actually mine was close to this but a much much older one)
and it was quiet as hell. Probably overkill for you, but Eheim makes them in all different sizes... I highly recommend going BIG on your filter.

[Lumpy]

Originally Posted by Silock

Will algae be a problem even if the tank is completely out of sunlight and only gets light from the lights? I'm putting it in the basement outside of the theater room, and there aren't any windows down there.

If not, what kind of grass can I get to grow on the bottom of the tank that isn't too difficult? Is there such a thing? If there isn't, then I'll have to learn a CO2 system, I guess. It's the only way my wife will sign off on the freshwater vs. saltwater (because it's the only way the tank looks "pretty" to her).



What do you mean by this?



Noted.



Also noted. Liveaquaria says they're peaceful (Discus) and would get along, but I guess they're wrong.



What's the quietest option?

Algae can be a problem in any tank even w/o direct sunlight. The amount of light from your fixture can create an algae bloom. That's why you should run CO2 if you have a light fixture that puts out a lot of wattage. CO2 kills off the algae. If the algae gets out of control, your plants will be competing to get the nutrients and such that the algae is taking in to grow.

As far as an low-light alternative to Dwarf Hairgrass, I don't believe there is one. However, you could always plant patches of Java Moss throughout the substrate. Eventually it will spread and form a nice "carpet" effect. I saw a tank that had Java Moss everywhere and it was beautiful!

"What do you mean by this?" I was meaning that it would be best to start out w/ a low light setup at first, then upgrade your lighting fixture to support high light plants. You will need to dose fertilizers in order for your plants to really take-off and stay green, (even w/ a low light setup). I use Seachem Flourish, Trace, and Root Tabs. The Flourish & Trace are good for the majority of plants that feed from the water column. The Root Tabs are good if you have standard gravel or sand substrate and deep rooting plants like Amazon Swords.

As far as my opinion about the Discus, I'm going by other people's personal experience with them in their community tanks. Liveaquaria is pretty accurate in their info, so they might be "ok" w/ community fish. But from the stories I've read, I wouldn't trust any of those bastards in my tank.

If you're looking for a quiet filter, the best option would be to read reviews on pet supply sites. Just see what others are saying about them. Of course, you may not have the same experience. I just replaced my old HOB filter and got a Tetra Whisper EX70 HOB Filter. Many of the reviewers complained about a grinding noise, but mine is extremely quiet. It's really hit or miss, especially w/ HOB filters. I've never used a Canister filter, but many people love them.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Silock

So, I've been perusing Craigslist. Seems like there are a ton of deals on 100+ gal tanks.

I want to do freshwater, though. I want Dwarf Hairgrass to cover the bottom. I love the way it looks when it's all over. So lush and green.

And then I'm going to just put a bunch of schools of peaceful, non-aggressive fish in there, like Neon Tetras, mollies, danios, killfish, a betta, discus, fancy guppies, gouramis, and swordtails. I've had cichlids before in the same tank with barbs, and they did okay. So, with such a large tank, I might be able to get away with one or two, but if I do, they'll come dead last.

What kind of filtration system should I go with? And heater? I've been reading that I should probably stay away from an undergravel filter because of the size of the tank.

Does that sound like a good plan?

Having live plants in your tank is much more difficult than it sounds. The conditions have to be very good, and many fish like to unroot the plants. But once you establish it in your tank, it really helps to maintain the bio aspect. It's certainly doable. But just expect some growing pains in getting it established.

Betas don't play with others very well at all.

Discus are one of the most difficult freshwater fish to keep. They're very sensitive to water quality, and usually require weekly water changes at the least. Plus they're pretty expensive, and they usually recommend having quite a few in the tank as they don't do well by themselves. I've had several friends try Discus, and they always ended up losing money and killing them. But damn they sure are beautiful fish.

No offense, but I don't really like your proposed mix of fish. They're all boring starter fish you'd find at any Petsmart. None of them will get very big, and few of them will have any "personality" that you'd see in bigger fish. They're dumb colony fish.

I think a cichlid tank is definitely the way to go. You can have a huge degree of variety that way. And it's really not as hard as you'd think to have a bunch of different cichlids in the tank without having an aggressive atmosphere. There's infinite different species of non aggressive cichlids that would look much better than your normal tetras, mollies, etc. I have a variety of different cichlids in my tank, and I have no aggression or fighting at all. I've got a large Jack Dempsey(6"), a large green severum, 2 African cichlids, a parrotfish, 2 Peacock cichlids, 2 plecos, and a couple Cory cats(hilarious little guys). And it's a very peaceful tank. All the fish have beautiful fins and rarely even chase each other in the tank. Don't be scared off by cichlids...

Take a look at some of the varieties of cichlids here: http://www.livefishdirect.com/store.php?cid=32

I have a friend who recently setup a tank with lots of Lake Malawi Mbuna cichlids, and man is it an impressive tank! Very colorful and unique fish.

Lumpy nailed the filter info.

Whatever you choose, let us know how it goes...

[Skyy God]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

I think a cichlid tank is definitely the way to go. You can have a huge degree of variety that way. And it's really not as hard as you'd think to have a bunch of different cichlids in the tank without having an aggressive atmosphere. There's infinite different species of non aggressive cichlids that would look much better than your normal tetras, mollies, etc. I have a variety of different cichlids in my tank, and I have no aggression or fighting at all. I've got a large Jack Dempsey(6"), a large green severum, 2 African cichlids, a parrotfish, 2 Peacock cichlids, 2 plecos, and a couple Cory cats(hilarious little guys). And it's a very peaceful tank. All the fish have beautiful fins and rarely even chase each other in the tank. Don't be scared off by cichlids...

I'm with Fish on this. If you started out wanting a salt tank, I don't see the jump to a planted tank with vanilla fish. You've got a ton of options for a 100G African cichlid setup.