JoPo: Carl has us all fooled - Page 5

siberian khatru · 12-19-2006, 07:54 AM

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16270526.htm

Let’s face it — Chiefs aren’t that good

JOE POSNANSKI
The Kansas City Star

Picture, if you will, a football team. This is not any ordinary football team. This is a team that has made the playoffs one time in the last nine years. Once. In nine years. This obviously is not a particularly good football team.

In those nine years, this team has been led by four different head coaches (three defensive guys, one offensive guy), guided by four quarterbacks (all backups from other teams) and has finished, on average, 22nd in the league in total defense.

You have pictured a team in total disarray, yes? Let us divulge that team also has been miserable away from home — a 25-46 road record over those nine years. No toughness. This team has had just one of its drafted defensive players make the Pro Bowl over that nine-year drought (and that was a fluke, he was on the bench the very next year). This team has not been to a Super Bowl in Lance Armstrong’s lifetime.

This team embarrassed itself with a Monday night meltdown on national television. This team’s defensive slapstick inspired the commissioner to joke about them during his annual state of the NFL speech. This team had one coach quit suddenly and go into broadcasting, one coach resign to spend time with his grandkids and a third coach dismissed rather coldly and then brought back to be defensive coordinator.

Close your eyes. You are picturing one of the NFL dregs, right? The Detroit Lions? The Arizona Cardinals? The Houston Texans?

Of course, you know by now — you’ve known all along — that we are talking about the Kansas City Chiefs. And yet, somehow the Chiefs have avoided being considered one of those NFL dregs. Every home game sells out. People all over town wear red to work every Friday. Every July, no matter how many years since the team has tasted playoff success, Chiefs fans hope again.

How is this possible? You have entered the Chiefs zone.

•••

It’s strange. We all lived through every one of those Chiefs failures the last nine years. I was there for every one of them. And yet, until they were all piled up one after another like dominoes, I did not quite realize exactly how bad it has been. One playoff in nine years? Four coaches? Four backup quarterbacks? That bad a road record?

If the idea of the NFL is to make the playoffs — and I suspect most of us would say that’s the idea — the Chiefs are right there with the Lions, Cardinals and Browns.

But it doesn’t feel that way, does it? I suspect this has a lot to do with Chiefs president/CEO/general manager Carl Peterson. I know many people believe that he is somehow content with losing (as long as the stadium is filled), but I have never bought that. I think he wants very much to win. He has done everything he knows to win.

The truth of course is that under Peterson, the Chiefs haven’t won. In the early years, they couldn’t quite win playoff games. And over the last nine years, they haven’t even won enough to make the playoffs. Why not? I think the answer is more complicated than “he isn’t trying” or “he doesn’t care.” My quick explanation is that the hardest thing to do in football is a build a team with the right balance between offense and defense, and Peterson has never found that balance. Good teams can beat you more than one way. The Chiefs, under Peterson, have not had that variety.

But what Peterson has done — I think better than anyone in sports — is convince everyone that his mediocre teams are actually good and promising. How? He has kept the Chiefs from having one of those comical 3-13 seasons. He has always found players with star quality — Derrick Thomas to Joe Montana to Marcus Allen to Tony Gonzalez to Priest Holmes to Larry Johnson. And the Chiefs have just missed the playoffs enough times to keep everybody coming back for more.

I’ll bet if you asked big NFL fans to name the four teams that have made the playoffs just once since 1998, everybody would get Detroit. Most would pick Arizona. Most would pick Cincinnati (though the Bengals look on pace to make the playoffs this year and get out of this league of losers).

And I suspect very few would name Kansas City. They seem better than that.

This year’s team is a perfect example. These Chiefs were once 7-4 and two touchdowns ahead of Cleveland. They looked to be a playoff team for sure. They looked to be a team on the rise. Everybody in town was excited. Truth was, they were playing over their heads. They have lost three straight, and really they were not too competitive the last two.

Monday, someone asked me this simple question: If you had a choice to build for the future, would you take this year’s Chiefs team or the 4-11-1 team from 1988 that Marty Schottenheimer inherited?

The obvious answer is that you would take this year’s team. That was my thought.

But look again: That 1988 team had three defensive Pro Bowlers — Dino Hackett, Albert Lewis and Deron Cherry. Defensive end Neil Smith was about to emerge, cornerback Kevin Ross had Pro Bowl years ahead, and the Chiefs had a high draft pick (which Peterson used to take Derrick Thomas). That team also had a powerful running back (Christian Okoye), a solid offensive line, two productive wide receivers and a veteran quarterback (Steve DeBerg). There were some pieces there. And the Chiefs won.

Now, look at this year’s team. They will likely have no defensive Pro Bowlers this season. It’s way too early to predict that any of the young defenders will emerge the way Smith, Ross and others did. The Chiefs will have a mediocre draft pick, so they probably will not get a franchise player like Thomas. They do have the great running back, but the offensive line — especially at tackle — struggles. Hall of Famer Will Shields may retire. Trent Green doesn’t look the same after his injury, and he will be 37 before next season. The Chiefs do have the fabulous Tony Gonzalez, assuming they re-sign him. Otherwise, their receiving corps is shaky and aging fast.

The point is, this Chiefs team really isn’t very good. But, like always, they had people around town (at least for a while) believing they were good. Heck, I believed it, too. This is what the Chiefs do well. They get everyone to believe. Trouble is, they’re going to miss the playoffs again. And they do that well too. Too well.

Mr. Laz · 12-19-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

You mean, we don't, Mr. Vanilla Thunder?

glad somebody got it, Mr. Fax.

htismaqe · 12-19-2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

This would be a great time to do it, Mr. Vanilla Thunder. The Mighty Clark asserts his authority after assumption of the undivided throne.

Thing is, if it doesn't happen soon, it probably won't until Carl's contract expires.

FAX

The problem is that the Mighty Clark has been filthy rich his entire life. When you have his kind of money $1,000 here and $100,000 there is like pocket change.

I can't think of a single thing the fans can do that would hit him DEEP ENOUGH in the pocketbook to actually make him want to change things.

Which means we're basically at his mercy.

DJJasonp · 12-19-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The problem is that the Mighty Clark has been filthy rich his entire life. When you have his kind of money $1,000 here and $100,000 there is like pocket change.

I can't think of a single thing the fans can do that would hit him DEEP ENOUGH in the pocketbook to actually make him want to change things.

Which means we're basically at his mercy.

And if we did hit him hard enough to tick him off....he'd move the team.

**RealSNR** · 12-19-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder

They shall stay on then.

Should Clark give the janitorial staff free colon cleansings for their great work?

Let's put the janitorial staff at GM. They won't ask for as much money, they probably follow the NFL and its workings pretty well, and if the Chiefs did win a Super Bowl, it would be the NFL's greatest story ever told. "Toilet Bowl to Super Bowl- The Super Bowl Kansas City Chiefs"

Plus they don't have that far to go to be better than Carl. One playoff berth in 9 years. I think they could do it just fine.

htismaqe · 12-19-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJJasonp

And if we did hit him hard enough to tick him off....he'd move the team.

Not for 25 years, he won't.

The $ amount of the penalties in the new lease definitely register on his rader.

Calcountry · 12-19-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Jones

Trent Green doesn’t look the same after his injury

I don't know about that. Trent doesn't look the same since his protection became a big steaming pile of shit. He has always struggled with accuracy, but because of his leadership qualities, game management, Priest Holmes, and the O-line buying him major time he has been able to maximize his potential. Now he's missing two of those elements.

...and please don't think I'm trying to hang any blame on LJ - but I do think Priest was a better receiving threat and better at pass protection.

People need to stop making excuses for Green. Excuses are what got us Gunther back as DC.

Calcountry · 12-19-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rxrider

I'm inclined to go with KCJones on this one.

Trents accuracy has never been DEAD ON ... he is no Payton Mangina.

He has lost his nerve in the pocket due to suspect protection that has led to the decline of his quick release. Top that with our receivers inability to make separation quickly it makes Trent hold the ball longer.

It was Trents quick release and receivers actually catching the ball that made a lot of plays in the past.

If anything the quick release he was always good for has been hampered by rushing LBackers and protection that sucks. I don't know that we miss Willie Roaf as much as we miss T-Rich and Priest blocking behind the rest.

Just IMO.

Our 13-3 team in 2003 had one of the most PUD schedules the first 9 games in the NFL. Look at the Bears schedule this year.... I think you will see that had they actually had to play MORE good teams (above .500) that thier record may not be as good as it is now. We were an above average team with pud schedule IMO.

.

You are not going to stand here and make a case that does anything but admit that Trent Green is in decline.

ROYC75 · 12-19-2006, 12:15 PM

Meh, Carl is just waiting until the time is right to win a SB, then he can retire and go out on top a winner.Just ask him, he"ll tell ya .........

**BigRedChief** · 12-19-2006, 12:58 PM

Only four teams have a worse AFC record than KC (Oakland, Miami, Cleveland, Houston). Two of those teams beat the Chiefs.

KC has the second worst record against the AFC (3-7) behind only the Raiders.

Thats really some sad facts.

**ptlyon** · 12-19-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Only four teams have a worse AFC record than KC (Oakland, Miami, Cleveland, Houston). Two of those teams beat the Chiefs.

3 come the light of Sunday morning.

Chief Chief · 12-19-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott free

I agree with everything except the accuracy part, accuracy is Trents strongest suit.

Yeah, those throws to Ed Reed of the Ravens and Donnie Edwards of the Chargers were right on target where none of our players were able to touch them. And, no, Trent wasn't under heavy pressure in those situations.

He can't pass accurately on the run which means DEs know exactly where to find him: 5 to 7 steps back in the pocket.

If you can, check out his passes in previous games this season. Just a few memorable ones: He's thrown to a closely-covered Dante 2 yards beyond the line of scrimmage on a 3rd and 7. He's inexcusably thrown low short-distance passes to Hall and Kris Wilson who were relatively open in the end zone in the last 3 games (both caught - big kudos to the receivers). He's also thrown way wide right to Wilson standing off in the flat (incomplete).

A few games ago, Trent said one of his picks was due to his feet being set wrong. He still has problems with his footwork. When he exaggerates the quick ducking of his head to 'sell' the run on a play-action pass, the defense instantly knows it's a fake hand-off -- the last QB that did the head duck thing was Sonny Jurgensen. Have we ever seen Trent duck his head on a real hand-off? He doesn't duck it at all!

Those 60% passing completion rates you've shown don't tell the whole story. Most of those were on teams loaded with offensive talent (thanks to his buddy Dick Vermeil). Let's see his QB ratings of the games he's played so far this season.

And let's keep an eye on his passing game these next two games and see if he's really worth the money that Dick and Carl are giving him. Based on what I've seen, Damon's done better and would make a great full-time starting QB.

InChiefsHeaven · 12-19-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

This line kills me......

are you mediocre and, if so, what does that say about some other teams?

Who gives a flying **** about other teams?

All I know is that the team I root for is 7-7. And honestly, they're lucky not to be 5-9 or 4-10.

Exactly! Hey Rufus, it means that some other teams are mediocre too...you incredible DOLT!

htismaqe · 12-19-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Chief

Yeah, those throws to Ed Reed of the Ravens and Donnie Edwards of the Chargers were right on target where none of our players were able to touch them. And, no, Trent wasn't under heavy pressure in those situations.

He can't pass accurately on the run which means DEs know exactly where to find him: 5 to 7 steps back in the pocket.

If you can, check out his passes in previous games this season. Just a few memorable ones: He's thrown to a closely-covered Dante 2 yards beyond the line of scrimmage on a 3rd and 7. He's inexcusably thrown low short-distance passes to Hall and Kris Wilson who were relatively open in the end zone in the last 3 games (both caught - big kudos to the receivers). He's also thrown way wide right to Wilson standing off in the flat (incomplete).

A few games ago, Trent said one of his picks was due to his feet being set wrong. He still has problems with his footwork. When he exaggerates the quick ducking of his head to 'sell' the run on a play-action pass, the defense instantly knows it's a fake hand-off -- the last QB that did the head duck thing was Sonny Jurgensen. Have we ever seen Trent duck his head on a real hand-off? He doesn't duck it at all!

Those 60% passing completion rates you've shown don't tell the whole story. Most of those were on teams loaded with offensive talent (thanks to his buddy Dick Vermeil). Let's see his QB ratings of the games he's played so far this season.

And let's keep an eye on his passing game these next two games and see if he's really worth the money that Dick and Carl are giving him. Based on what I've seen, Damon's done better and would make a great full-time starting QB.

At least one of those passes you mentioned - the INT to Donnie Edwards - had nothing to do with Trent's accuracy.

This offense, as was the offense under Vermeil both here and in St. Louis, is predicated on "spots". The QB isn't necessarily throwing to a WR. He's throwing to a spot on the field where he expects the WR to be. It's a timing offense.

That being said, he hasn't been as accurate this season.

Chiefnj · 12-19-2006, 01:10 PM

Someone posted it earlier, but the Chiefs have scored 1 TD or less (not including FG's) in 7 games this season. 3 1/2 played by Trent, 3 1/2 played by Huard. Almost all of those games came against good defenses. Both QB's suffered when playing good D's.

InChiefsHeaven · 12-19-2006, 01:12 PM

Trent is a year older than last season. People can drop off dramatically at that age. Plus, he had his damn head almost knocked off. I would not be surprised to see that his production is suffering. I hope for his sake that he gets out after this season, before he gets hurt again next year with this "transition offense" we seem to be running.

12-19-2006, 07:54 AM
siberian khatru 21st Century Schizoid Fan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Gates of Delirium Casino cash: $2424950	JoPo: Carl has us all fooled http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16270526.htm Let’s face it — Chiefs aren’t that good JOE POSNANSKI The Kansas City Star Picture, if you will, a football team. This is not any ordinary football team. This is a team that has made the playoffs one time in the last nine years. Once. In nine years. This obviously is not a particularly good football team. In those nine years, this team has been led by four different head coaches (three defensive guys, one offensive guy), guided by four quarterbacks (all backups from other teams) and has finished, on average, 22nd in the league in total defense. You have pictured a team in total disarray, yes? Let us divulge that team also has been miserable away from home — a 25-46 road record over those nine years. No toughness. This team has had just one of its drafted defensive players make the Pro Bowl over that nine-year drought (and that was a fluke, he was on the bench the very next year). This team has not been to a Super Bowl in Lance Armstrong’s lifetime. This team embarrassed itself with a Monday night meltdown on national television. This team’s defensive slapstick inspired the commissioner to joke about them during his annual state of the NFL speech. This team had one coach quit suddenly and go into broadcasting, one coach resign to spend time with his grandkids and a third coach dismissed rather coldly and then brought back to be defensive coordinator. Close your eyes. You are picturing one of the NFL dregs, right? The Detroit Lions? The Arizona Cardinals? The Houston Texans? Of course, you know by now — you’ve known all along — that we are talking about the Kansas City Chiefs. And yet, somehow the Chiefs have avoided being considered one of those NFL dregs. Every home game sells out. People all over town wear red to work every Friday. Every July, no matter how many years since the team has tasted playoff success, Chiefs fans hope again. How is this possible? You have entered the Chiefs zone. ••• It’s strange. We all lived through every one of those Chiefs failures the last nine years. I was there for every one of them. And yet, until they were all piled up one after another like dominoes, I did not quite realize exactly how bad it has been. One playoff in nine years? Four coaches? Four backup quarterbacks? That bad a road record? If the idea of the NFL is to make the playoffs — and I suspect most of us would say that’s the idea — the Chiefs are right there with the Lions, Cardinals and Browns. But it doesn’t feel that way, does it? I suspect this has a lot to do with Chiefs president/CEO/general manager Carl Peterson. I know many people believe that he is somehow content with losing (as long as the stadium is filled), but I have never bought that. I think he wants very much to win. He has done everything he knows to win. The truth of course is that under Peterson, the Chiefs haven’t won. In the early years, they couldn’t quite win playoff games. And over the last nine years, they haven’t even won enough to make the playoffs. Why not? I think the answer is more complicated than “he isn’t trying” or “he doesn’t care.” My quick explanation is that the hardest thing to do in football is a build a team with the right balance between offense and defense, and Peterson has never found that balance. Good teams can beat you more than one way. The Chiefs, under Peterson, have not had that variety. But what Peterson has done — I think better than anyone in sports — is convince everyone that his mediocre teams are actually good and promising. How? He has kept the Chiefs from having one of those comical 3-13 seasons. He has always found players with star quality — Derrick Thomas to Joe Montana to Marcus Allen to Tony Gonzalez to Priest Holmes to Larry Johnson. And the Chiefs have just missed the playoffs enough times to keep everybody coming back for more. I’ll bet if you asked big NFL fans to name the four teams that have made the playoffs just once since 1998, everybody would get Detroit. Most would pick Arizona. Most would pick Cincinnati (though the Bengals look on pace to make the playoffs this year and get out of this league of losers). And I suspect very few would name Kansas City. They seem better than that. This year’s team is a perfect example. These Chiefs were once 7-4 and two touchdowns ahead of Cleveland. They looked to be a playoff team for sure. They looked to be a team on the rise. Everybody in town was excited. Truth was, they were playing over their heads. They have lost three straight, and really they were not too competitive the last two. Monday, someone asked me this simple question: If you had a choice to build for the future, would you take this year’s Chiefs team or the 4-11-1 team from 1988 that Marty Schottenheimer inherited? The obvious answer is that you would take this year’s team. That was my thought. But look again: That 1988 team had three defensive Pro Bowlers — Dino Hackett, Albert Lewis and Deron Cherry. Defensive end Neil Smith was about to emerge, cornerback Kevin Ross had Pro Bowl years ahead, and the Chiefs had a high draft pick (which Peterson used to take Derrick Thomas). That team also had a powerful running back (Christian Okoye), a solid offensive line, two productive wide receivers and a veteran quarterback (Steve DeBerg). There were some pieces there. And the Chiefs won. Now, look at this year’s team. They will likely have no defensive Pro Bowlers this season. It’s way too early to predict that any of the young defenders will emerge the way Smith, Ross and others did. The Chiefs will have a mediocre draft pick, so they probably will not get a franchise player like Thomas. They do have the great running back, but the offensive line — especially at tackle — struggles. Hall of Famer Will Shields may retire. Trent Green doesn’t look the same after his injury, and he will be 37 before next season. The Chiefs do have the fabulous Tony Gonzalez, assuming they re-sign him. Otherwise, their receiving corps is shaky and aging fast. The point is, this Chiefs team really isn’t very good. But, like always, they had people around town (at least for a while) believing they were good. Heck, I believed it, too. This is what the Chiefs do well. They get everyone to believe. Trouble is, they’re going to miss the playoffs again. And they do that well too. Too well.
Posts: 69,229

12-19-2006, 12:15 PM	#68
ROYC75 Time For Your Wake Up Call !!! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Barn Yard Casino cash: $5569400	Meh, Carl is just waiting until the time is right to win a SB, then he can retire and go out on top a winner.Just ask him, he"ll tell ya ......... __________________ Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it. John Lennon
Posts: 37,000

12-19-2006, 12:58 PM	#69
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3019627 VARSITY	Only four teams have a worse AFC record than KC (Oakland, Miami, Cleveland, Houston). Two of those teams beat the Chiefs. KC has the second worst record against the AFC (3-7) behind only the Raiders. Thats really some sad facts. __________________ Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. -YODA
Posts: 79,113

12-19-2006, 01:10 PM	#74
Chiefnj MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Willis, Harris and Davis. Casino cash: $10004900	Someone posted it earlier, but the Chiefs have scored 1 TD or less (not including FG's) in 7 games this season. 3 1/2 played by Trent, 3 1/2 played by Huard. Almost all of those games came against good defenses. Both QB's suffered when playing good D's. __________________ "I always tell (the assistant coaches), 'Make it simple, 'cause I'm stupid,'" Edwards said. "This ain't computer football." Herm Edwards, 3-20-07 Q: Herm, back on December 25th you were asked if Trent Green was your starter going into next season and you said, ‘yeah, why wouldn’t he be?’ Have you changed your mind on that? EDWARDS: No, I have not.” (1-11-07)
Posts: 6,811

12-19-2006, 01:12 PM	#75
InChiefsHeaven Rockin' yer FACE OFF! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Casino cash: $3764937	Trent is a year older than last season. People can drop off dramatically at that age. Plus, he had his damn head almost knocked off. I would not be surprised to see that his production is suffering. I hope for his sake that he gets out after this season, before he gets hurt again next year with this "transition offense" we seem to be running. __________________ We have a million reasons for failure, but not one excuse... Die Donks, DIE!! Holy Crap fellas!!! We did it!!! THREE TIMES!!!
Posts: 25,749