Chiefs Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey - Page 5

Quesadilla Joe · 03:11 PM

A lot of new information/quotes in this article...

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

Spoiler!

The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork.

They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity.

As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned.

Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired.

While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs.

While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser.

“He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey.

That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team.

“He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.”

“It’s more about his management skills,” another source added.

For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization.

“Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.”

Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others.

“It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said.

Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths.

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

“He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.”

Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star.

“He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said.

“One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.”

Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation.

“A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.”

Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless.

“He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.”

It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM.

“I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.”

Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two.

“We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM.

“To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.”

Sweet Daddy Hate · 06-25-2017, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

I still don't buy into anything about Dorsey going back to GB if a GM job opens up for him. HE just made deal of the century for the Chiefs with a QBotf and was stoked doing it. This is his blueprint for a Championship and everything he has done is to set this franchise up for long term success. Why wouldn't he want to be apart of that? Why wouldn't he want to reap what he sows in the ground? Why wouldn't he want be there for his young quarterback taking the training wheels off?

Every time I've seen Dorsey interview he speaks of this as his "dream job" in Kansas City

Clark can circle the wagons all he likes, and he will have steadfast help right here at CP among certain fans that truly believe he's just a great guy trying to do the best for his team, but pretty much everyone with a pulse and a grasp of franchise history knows full and well that the story being sold is bullshit and that Dorsey was fantastic at the most important element of his job.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-25-2017, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Obviously Hunt has excellent communication skills.

Give enough rope to someone to hang themselves

Litmus test

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-25-2017, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

Clark can circle the wagons all he likes, and he will have steadfast help right here at CP among certain fans that truly believe he's just a great guy trying to do the best for his team, but pretty much everyone with a pulse and a grasp of franchise history knows full and well that the story being sold is bullshit and that Dorsey was fantastic at the most important element of his job.

**cdcox** · 06-25-2017, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

He's not wrong you know.

**Baby Lee** · 06-25-2017, 09:53 PM

RunKC · 06-25-2017, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Then he's a bigger dipshit than anyone could have imagined.

If a guy running an NFL franchise can't self-evaluate, he should fear for his job.

Well it's his dream job, the team has been very successful in his time there, Clark has been working with him on an extension so it was obvious Clark felt he was worth extending. Finally, it's a month before camp and I don't think any GM would guess that they'd be fired at the time.

As much as I hate to think this, I really think the Maclin debacle pissed everyone off at the same time. Andy lost his guy, Clark has to pay Maclin a lot of $$ for not being here and Donovan had to have been enraged with the bad PR that happened after the move. That seemed like it put everyone over the edge.

Chiefshrink · 06-25-2017, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

HE just made deal of the century for the Chiefs with a QBotf and was stoked doing it. This is his blueprint for a Championship and everything he has done is to set this franchise up for long term success. Why wouldn't he want to be apart of that? Why wouldn't he want to reap what he sows in the ground? Why wouldn't he want be there for his young quarterback taking the training wheels off?

Every time I've seen Dorsey interview he speaks of this as his "dream job" in Kansas City

Well on the surface, yes your logic computes here but go deeper. I think when you are talking about your "dream job" of which is rumored to be in GB then take all your points you made and look at them from Dorsey's perspective as being the obvious choice to replace Ted Thompson. Dorsey is basically showcasing, "look at what I have done here in KC and I am more than worthy in GB".

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-25-2017, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

He's not wrong you know.

How are you a professor?

Sweet Daddy Hate · 06-25-2017, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

He's not wrong you know.

Dane is fully house planted for the Clarks and the Fatass. His enjoyment of the continual 10+ win season is the most important thing in all of sports, and is not to be trifled with!

Reerun_KC · 06-25-2017, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Well it's his dream job, the team has been very successful in his time there, Clark has been working with him on an extension so it was obvious Clark felt he was worth extending. Finally, it's a month before camp and I don't think any GM would guess that they'd be fired at the time.

As much as I hate to think this, I really think the Maclin debacle pissed everyone off at the same time. Andy lost his guy, Clark has to pay Maclin a lot of $$ for not being here and Donovan had to have been enraged with the bad PR that happened after the move. That seemed like it put everyone over the edge.

Interesting take....

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-25-2017, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Well it's his dream job, the team has been very successful in his time there, Clark has been working with him on an extension so it was obvious Clark felt he was worth extending. Finally, it's a month before camp and I don't think any GM would guess that they'd be fired at the time.

As much as I hate to think this, I really think the Maclin debacle pissed everyone off at the same time. Andy lost his guy, Clark has to pay Maclin a lot of $$ for not being here and Donovan had to have been enraged with the bad PR that happened after the move. That seemed like it put everyone over the edge.

If this is the, Arrowhead needs to be swallowed up by the earth, never to return

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-25-2017, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Interesting take....

Because you're a drunken fool

BlackOp · 06-25-2017, 10:00 PM

I'm wondering if the way Charles left had anything to do with it. He WAS the team's superstar and seemed disgruntled. He carried more LR weight in KC than Maclin...he was a legacy player. The fact they didn't even offer a reduced contract said ..."thanks, bye".

Dorsey seemed a bit cold/unconcerned when he drafted Hunt....I never really heard him say anything appreciative about JC after he left. Then Maclin compounded it...

Maybe the players hate him...but it was set-up that way...with Reid always playing the good cop.

Either way, it's not Dorsey's job to be besties with the players.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-25-2017, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

Dane is fully house planted for the Clarks and the Fatass. His enjoyment of the continual 10+ win season is the most important thing in all of sports, and is not to be trifled with!

Yeah, that's what I've been saying for years.

Enjoy dying alone in your crappy apartment after shitting yourself.

Hopefully someone finds you within a week.

**Bearcat** · 06-25-2017, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Reerun is a ****ing. So are you.

Clark Hunt hired the best GM candidate in 2009 but it didn't work out.

He hired the best available coach and hired a highly regarded personnel man in Dorsey in 2013. That trajectory isn't over.

Shut the **** up.

I've always taken Hunt as a mostly absentee owner who will swoop in to clean up a mess when he absolutely needs to... I mean, I don't keep up with Owner-GM or Owner-organization relationships across the league, much less Clark Hunt's day-to-day, it's just the feeling I get. And if Dorsey was actually stunned, that's more on Hunt than Dorsey... even if Dorsey thought he wasn't doing well, swooping in and firing him is obviously not good management.

Hopefully it's all BS though... when you're going on your 3rd GM in 8 seasons, it would certainly be nice to have a clear vision and established culture from the top.

06-25-2017, 02:52 PM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $4028675	Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey A lot of new information/quotes in this article... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html Spoiler! The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork. They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks. But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.” A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned. Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired. While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs. While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser. “He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey. That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team. “He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.” “It’s more about his management skills,” another source added. For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization. “Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.” Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others. “It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said. Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths. “Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” “He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.” Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star. “He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said. “One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.” Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation. “A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.” Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless. “He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.” It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM. “I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.” Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two. “We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM. “To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.” Last edited by Quesadilla Joe; 06-25-2017 at 03:11 PM..
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06-25-2017, 09:53 PM	#65
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06-25-2017, 10:00 PM	#73
BlackOp MVP Join Date: Oct 2012 Casino cash: $5875267	I'm wondering if the way Charles left had anything to do with it. He WAS the team's superstar and seemed disgruntled. He carried more LR weight in KC than Maclin...he was a legacy player. The fact they didn't even offer a reduced contract said ..."thanks, bye". Dorsey seemed a bit cold/unconcerned when he drafted Hunt....I never really heard him say anything appreciative about JC after he left. Then Maclin compounded it... Maybe the players hate him...but it was set-up that way...with Reid always playing the good cop. Either way, it's not Dorsey's job to be besties with the players. Last edited by BlackOp; 06-25-2017 at 10:10 PM..
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