Ned Yost Hate Thread

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by lewdog

It is more so the attitude of the team that lets me know Ned isn't leading anything. No one acts like they give a shit and they continue to laugh and joke all the way though these losing game. This season does not rest on Ned's shoulders squarely though. Moose and Hoz aren't busts yet but their beyond pitiful play has to be the result of ALL coaches not being able to develop guys. And why is that? I really don't know. Those two don't have to be all-stars but they have to be serviceable, and right now they aren't even that, which rests on coaching to a degree because I refuse to believe both of them are busts. Nothing in their approaches seems to change, they continue to do the same approach at the plate with the same piss poor outcome. That is coaching. It isn't all Ned but being the "head" coach, the whole environment has to change with him leading. He isn't.

That being said, bringing in someone knew likely won't help.

Your first sentence is what I have been preaching the last few weeks. Yes, it is true that baseball managers have the least impact on the outcome of a game compared to other sports.

HOWEVER......any team, regardless of sport, will reflect their manager\head coach.

[MrGiggity]

I get that coaches don't have as much impact as we think...but am I wrong for thinking this team would have been better off with Terry Francona?

[KcMizzou]

When they were winning, I LOVED that little bit of swagger. It's something we haven't seen in a long time.

[Nightfyre]

One thing that really concerns me is that moose, perez and hos all did better at the major league level before the coaching staff had a chance to **** with them. Then they all fall apart and lose their power after being in the majors foor a while. Sure some of that is the league adjusting to them, but surely not all of it.

[Stanley Nickels]

The exchange between ChiefsandO's and lew is the exact reason why Ned is to blame. Yes, MLB managers are the least impactful of any major sport (right next to soccer), but Yost has done a tremendous job of arguing against that wisdom. If a player doesn't want to watch his at-bats, tough-- Yost needs to sit his ass down and demand it. If your team is laughing through the 10th straight abysmal season (yes, AN ENTIRE DECADE OF MISERY), the manager needs heads to roll, leaving no cow too sacred for the butcher. Unfortunately for Ned, heads rolling comes in the form of suggesting the players don't fraternize with the opponents. That's like a mother reprimanding a disrespectful son for acting out by only allowing her son to play XBox without the headset and mic; you're not really inflicting any hardship. This entire organization has the collective manhood of a eunuch colony, and it starts at the Glass prostate, a festering cancer that seems to be completely content seeing no action ever, as long as the pieces are still technically functional. It's absurd.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by Stanley Nickels

Yost has done a tremendous job of arguing against that wisdom.

You are just asserting that, there's no reason to believe that its true.

The people who should be blamed for the player's failure is the players first, the GM second, and then after that, in a distant third, a random grab-bag of trainers and coaches of whom Ned is one of them.

[Stanley Nickels]

Originally Posted by alnorth

You are just asserting that, there's no reason to believe that its true.

Isn't that the point of posting? Asserting an opinion? I must be missing something.

[Fairplay]

Originally Posted by alnorth

You are just asserting that, there's no reason to believe that its true.

The people who should be blamed for the player's failure is the players first, the GM second, and then after that, in a distant third, a random grab-bag of trainers and coaches of whom Ned is one of them.

GM then Yost, in that order to be blamed.

[Stanley Nickels]

Originally Posted by alnorth

You are just asserting that, there's no reason to believe that its true.

The people who should be blamed for the player's failure is the players first, the GM second, and then after that, in a distant third, a random grab-bag of trainers and coaches of whom Ned is one of them.

Here's my frustration: we're talking about players in their mid-20s. These are grown men, but they hardly have the wisdom of people in even their 30s. If I knew in my early- to mid-20s what I know at THIRTY, I would have been on a completely different path in life. The managers and coaches, ESPECIALLY those in a game that requires so few interruptions throughout the course of a game (as opposed to, say, football or basketball), and even MORE SO on a young team that needs direction, should provide guidance, reassurance, and discipline. I FEEL (I apparently have to say that, because you seem to think my posts are me making a declarative with every sentence) that Yost and crew fail in those regards. Where does the blame lie for our major issues this year?

LineupS (I can't really capitalize that S enough): YOST. Batting Chris Getz at 1 is a desperation move that is the closest thing to a metaphorical white flag as you'll see.
Pitching change decisions: YOST, but these decisions have been below-average at best, so I won't get on his case too much.
Francouer: Moore
Hosmer: YOST. The potential is there, we all know it. Players slump; again, we all know it. But this slump has been consistent and he's not an outlier against a team full of power bats. Something has failed to be rectified.
Moustakas: Yost AND Moore. He should've been sent down. We did it for Gordon, we could do it for Moose. If the rumors are true, and Moose simply won't watch his at-bats, that is an absolute mental weakness, and that the coaching staff won't force the issue is a clear failure on their part.

I'm sorry, I just see too many signs of failure from the bench team to place this lump of shit at the feet of Dayton Moore. Yes, he shares a large amount of the blame, but I FEEEEL that Yost deserves the ax first. I wouldn't, of course, be opposed to both receiving a swift kick out of the proverbial door. I just wish Glass would try kicking both at the same time and somehow suffer a coma-inducing concussion. But this is all pipe dreams; we are shit, we've been shit for the past 28 years, and we'll continue to be shit.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by Stanley Nickels

Here's my frustration: we're talking about players in their mid-20s. These are grown men, but they hardly have the wisdom of people in even their 30s. If I knew in my early- to mid-20s what I know at THIRTY, I would have been on a completely different path in life. The managers and coaches, ESPECIALLY those in a game that requires so few interruptions throughout the course of a game (as opposed to, say, football or basketball), and even MORE SO on a young team that needs direction, should provide guidance, reassurance, and discipline. I FEEL (I apparently have to say that, because you seem to think my posts are me making a declarative with every sentence) that Yost and crew fail in those regards. Where does the blame lie for our major issues this year?

I disagree with the most fundamental assumption that you are making here: that they are poor young lost kids who need some sort of fatherly guidance and motivation to perform.

They are F'ing grown-ass men. They aren't 12 years old. This also isn't football where screaming and knocking helmets together may fire you up to more effort, baseball is a "cool" sport, in that being too "fired up" can actually be counter-productive and cause you to fail.

[Fairplay]

Originally Posted by alnorth

I disagree with the most fundamental assumption that you are making here: that they are poor young lost kids who need some sort of fatherly guidance and motivation to perform.

They are F'ing grown-ass men. They aren't 12 years old. This also isn't football where screaming and knocking helmets together may fire you up to more effort, baseball is a "cool" sport, in that being too "fired up" can actually be counter-productive and cause you to fail.

Regardless Yost is still their leader and has to guide them.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by alnorth

I disagree with the most fundamental assumption that you are making here: that they are poor young lost kids who need some sort of fatherly guidance and motivation to perform.

They are F'ing grown-ass men. They aren't 12 years old. This also isn't football where screaming and knocking helmets together may fire you up to more effort, baseball is a "cool" sport, in that being too "fired up" can actually be counter-productive and cause you to fail.

Ok, you say they're grown ass men? They are acting like children, giving their little hand-signals after squeezing out every little infield single. Ned just sits back and lets it happen.

He isn't treating them like grown men, imo.

[Stanley Nickels]

Originally Posted by alnorth

I disagree with the most fundamental assumption that you are making here: that they are poor young lost kids who need some sort of fatherly guidance and motivation to perform.

They are F'ing grown-ass men. They aren't 12 years old. This also isn't football where screaming and knocking helmets together may fire you up to more effort, baseball is a "cool" sport, in that being too "fired up" can actually be counter-productive and cause you to fail.

This isn't black-and-white. Maturity doesn't work in binary; incremental improvements are a part of life, and these guys have a tremendous weight on their shoulders. A 12-year old would buckle under that pressure, and MOST 20-somethings would, too. Major leaguers NEED guidance and reassurance, and I'm not talking about mollycoddling. They need to have a figure there that is the calming presence who can also put a fire under their ass (in private) when necessary. I know that sounds "hand-wavy", but it's true.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by alnorth

You are just asserting that, there's no reason to believe that its true.

The people who should be blamed for the player's failure is the players first, the GM second, and then after that, in a distant third, a random grab-bag of trainers and coaches of whom Ned is one of them.

I think he has some solid evidence to back his argument.

1. Yost is the one that insisted on hitting for more power. Seitzer was fired because of that. 2 hitting coaches were brought it. Our entire team now sucks at hitting the ball more than they ever have.

2. Yost pulled the guy who was supposed to be our stud in a 1-0 game going into the 9th at home. He opted to go with a Pen that had been meh at best and ended up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. He also sent a message, intentionally or not that I don't think was well received, wittingly or not.

3. He moved the best leadoff hitter in the AL to the #3 spot. Since then we have gone 4-16 and all we hear is talk about not having a leadoff hitter.

4. He moved Getz into the leadoff spot. Nuff said on that one.

5. In a tie game he brought in Herrera who has been shelled thus far into the season only to watch him get shelled again to blow the tie and the game.

6. In the top of the 9th, down by 1, he brought EJ in to run for Belly with Hosmer at the plate. Yost never sent EJ on a steal to 2nd even though he had plenty of time as well as a batter who has been hitting at the infielders with regularity. Late in the AB, Hosmer gets a hit and EJ goes to 3rd instead of tying the game

7. He's played French too much

8. He's played Moose too much

9. Today was a whopper. Down by 3, bottom of the 9th, 2 outs and the tying run coming to the plate. Tejada is available to hit but instead Yost sends Moore to the plate. Moore, a guy who has not seen 1 pitch in the majors this season is sent to the plate in a clutch situation while a veteran hitter with power is left on the bench.


This is just the glaring.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by petegz28

I think he has some solid evidence to back his argument.

If you combine all of that, you might come up with a fraction of an expected loss.