PBS Vietnam War Documentary

[gblowfish]

Anybody catch the first episode last night? Interesting background on Ho Chi Mihn. I knew some of that back story, but not all of it. The French are total assholes. I can see why the Vietnamese people hated them. Actually, my French Teacher at Mizzou was a Vietnamese guy in a wheelchair who had fought for South Vietnam in the war. He was fluent in French because his father worked for the French in Saigon.

Next chapter is on tonight. One of the American Soldiers they talked to who was a Marine went to my High School (Van Horn) in Independence.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

Last nights episode convinced me that, as crazy as all of the current protesting and mayhem these days seems... its but a drop in the bucket compared to that era

Things were well and truly out of control back then, like the idiots in Greenwich Village who made a bomb powerful enough to level a large brick apartment building

Yeah, just like that era, there is a lot of tribalism going on in 2017 politics. Large numbers of people protesting, Clashes in the streets between each other and the police.

But, I just dont see it getting as bad as it was back then. We are in a war but most support and recognize the need. The National Guard is not going to shoot unarmed protesters. There is no widespread appeal for building bombs and or use violence against the "other side".

[gblowfish]

This is a clip that didn't make it to air, but is a great prologue to the series. John Musgrave meets with some vets from Iraq and Afghanistan to talk about some of their issues, from suicidal thoughts to PTSD to dealing with wives and family members. They're sitting around in a BBQ place in Kansas somewhere. Runs about 20 minutes, but is the perfect end to this series. Take 20 minutes and watch it.

http://www.pbs.org/video/fellow-warr...ietnam-e0opas/

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Watching this really pisses me off. Our military and politicians KNEW in 1965 that the war was unwinnable. The USA already had 2,765 dead why didn't they cut their losses and move on from a war that was unwinnable?

I can understand it the way one argument does: we made the Commies spend. They died at about 20-1 and we forced them to spend in a war we didn't "care" about.

Some argue it helped to end the cold war.

I would argue that assessment is correct.

I've also been witness to the results. My "uncle" who was honored and (today would be a MENSA member) blew his head off in his bedroom. His wife was forever ****ed and she later changed her and her kid's names.

My dad died of a "strange" form of brain cancer tied to agent orange.
The VA does not recognize this form of brain cancer as related to service. They agreed to treat him for free until it progressed and then told him "Sorry, we can't do anything. You're going to die."

When his doctors "across the street" found out about this they signed him up for everything they could and he was transferred from VA care to theirs.

I can't speak for anyone but it seems a lot of vets are going "across the street" and building a very solid case.

"We use to BBQ in the barrels. AO, spread, fuel, we'd take them, wash them out, and use them to cook out of..."

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Rausch

I can understand it the way one argument does: we made the Commies spend. They died at about 20-1 and we forced them to spend in a war we didn't "care" about.

I can blow up each and every one of these, easily.

"They" died at 20-1? Great. But "they" were nearly all peasant farmers in Vietnam. They weren't our enemy, and were never going to be our enemy, until we forced them to be our enemy. This isn't like WWII or even the war on terrorism, where arguably these nutjobs would go somewhere and attack "the west" in some fashion if they could. These people would mostly have worked their damn rice paddies if it wasn't for us forcing them to be soldiers.

Some argue it helped to end the cold war.

I would argue that assessment is correct.

Yeah, no. The fall of the Soviet Union was not caused to any signifciant degree by Vietnam. I have never seen any argument that suggests anywhere near that type of causation/correlation.

I've also been witness to the results. My "uncle" who was honored and (today would be a MENSA member) blew his head off in his bedroom. His wife was forever ****ed and she later changed her and her kid's names.

My dad died of a "strange" form of brain cancer tied to agent orange.
The VA does not recognize this form of brain cancer as related to service. They agreed to treat him for free until it progressed and then told him "Sorry, we can't do anything. You're going to die."

I'm very sorry for the price your family paid. I'm also sorry that I don't think they paid that awful price for anything of significant value to our country. It's not remotely their fault that a combination of bad luck, bad leadership, paranoia and stupidity caused untold suffering here and abroad.

[BucEyedPea]

I finished the second episode last night. Had no idea Diem was THAT bad. I mean I read he was bad but never knew how bad or the details.

Just goes to show that not knowing the history or culture of a people well enough can lead to losing a war. Have to win the people and the Vietnamese just weren't going to let another western power control them.
Civil wars are the worst to get tangled in. I see similar parallels to our endless war in Afghanistan--also unwinnable despite more troops sent. Some things never change.

[BigRedChief]

I think this is the best Ken Burns documentary yet.

[SAUTO]

Ive downloaded them on demand and they are only available to watch until tomorrow...

[eDave]

Originally Posted by SAUTO

Ive downloaded them on demand and they are only available to watch until tomorrow...

http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-vietnam-war/watch/

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Yeah, just like that era, there is a lot of tribalism going on in 2017 politics. Large numbers of people protesting, Clashes in the streets between each other and the police.

But, I just dont see it getting as bad as it was back then. We are in a war but most support and recognize the need. The National Guard is not going to shoot unarmed protesters. There is no widespread appeal for building bombs and or use violence against the "other side".

Agreed, as crazy as things seem now, it has nothing on the 60s

[Luke Atamadong]

Any good Vietnam book recommendations?
I've read these over the last couple of years.

Dispatches, The things they Carried, Matterhorn, Baptism, The Killing Zone, Kill Anything that Moves, Tiger Force, Boys of 67.....

Any other good recommendations? I prefer first hand accounts from the soldiers. Also I have most of the above on Audio Book if anyone is interested in listening.

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by Luke Atamadong

Any good Vietnam book recommendations?
I've read these over the last couple of years.

Dispatches, The things they Carried, Matterhorn, Baptism, The Killing Zone, Kill Anything that Moves, Tiger Force, Boys of 67.....

Any other good recommendations? I prefer first hand accounts from the soldiers. Also I have most of the above on Audio Book if anyone is interested in listening.

A Rumor of War
If I Die in a Combat Zone, Box Me Up and Ship Me Home

Also, I highly recommend the novel Fields of Fire

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Luke Atamadong

Any good Vietnam book recommendations?
I've read these over the last couple of years.

Dispatches, The things they Carried, Matterhorn, Baptism, The Killing Zone, Kill Anything that Moves, Tiger Force, Boys of 67.....

Any other good recommendations? I prefer first hand accounts from the soldiers. Also I have most of the above on Audio Book if anyone is interested in listening.

https://www.amazon.com/Pathfinder-Fi...finder+vietnam

[Amnorix]

FWIW, the definitive book on the Vietnam War as a whole is probably Karnow's.

https://www.amazon.com/Vietnam-Histo...ds=vietnam+war


It's a big read, but once you're done with it you'll feel pretty good that you learned a ton.

[Luke Atamadong]

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

A Rumor of War
If I Die in a Combat Zone, Box Me Up and Ship Me Home

Also, I highly recommend the novel Fields of Fire

Thanks! I have read 'A Rumor of War" forgot about that one.

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

FWIW, the definitive book on the Vietnam War as a whole is probably Karnow's.

https://www.amazon.com/Vietnam-Histo...ds=vietnam+war


It's a big read, but once you're done with it you'll feel pretty good that you learned a ton.

I second this. Still have my copy from the 80s.

Also, Best and the Brightest is still fabulous recounting the political side.

A Bright, Shining Lie is also excellent.