Cordy Glenn just set the market for Eric Fisher.

[BossChief]

He just signed a 5year, 65m contract with about 27m guaranteed.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Because Discuss is an idiot.

He's a troll, plain and simple.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by O.city

Dorsey is in the mold of all those green bay guys. They aren't gonna ever be in a win now mode. They're gonna build the roster to compete year in year out.

Nailed it. This ain't Elway grasping for straws.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Of course, but a 4th rounder is more expensive than a UDFA and only marginally more likely to contribute. And with the trade up scenario you keep the undervalued 5th year option in your pocket so that also helps offset the costs.

When you look at the Seahawks trade results I've used a couple of times, they actually lost a little money via their trade downs, especially when draft picks, even 3rd day guys, are going to get several times more guaranteed money than the UDFAs and street free agents that are nearly as likely to succeed.

Jones + Ehringer will cost about $1.7 million; roughly the same as the 28th's slot. 28 + Pughsley would've cost about 500K more but would've been offset by the potential value of the 5th year option.

If the finances matter, they don't matter much and to some extend they favor trading up to get the guy more likely to succeed and thus encourage you to take advantage of that 5th year option.

I'm more so thinking along the lines of if I trade up for 1 guy I'm gonna have to pay more (likely) to fill out my roster than I would in the draft picks.

The 5th year is definitely a huge deal though so I agree there.

I don't have an opinion on it either way really, just thinking out loud.

[O.city]

I also think it's year to year on the 3rd day guys not panning out. Specifically, 4th rounders. If you're to beleive this was such a deep draft and those 4th rounders are normally fringe 2nd 3rd rounders in a normal draft, getting more picks there make sense vs say, 2013.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

We had the 2017 capital; it could've been spent in '16. We could've traded OUR 3rd and 4th and back-filled them with the comp picks in '17.

That's fair, but I think everyone knew that this draft was deeper than recent years and you could get good players all the way through round 4.
It seems like Dorsey needed to backfill too many lost players (Smith, DeVito, Abdullah) while replacing dumpster fires like Fleming and Cooper at corner and a deep draft presented that opportunity.

I can see where Dorsey is coming from with this, but if someone like Paxton Lynch turns into something, we're all gonna look back and wonder why we didn't do what you wanted.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by O.city

Dorsey is in the mold of all those green bay guys. They aren't gonna ever be in a win now mode. They're gonna build the roster to compete year in year out.

I don't agree with that. Schneider just had a 1st rd pick for the first time in 3 years. Dorsey and McKenenzie have been very active in FA compared to Ted.

Seems like that's one man's philosophy here.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I don't agree with that. Schneider just had a 1st rd pick for the first time in 3 years. Dorsey and McKenenzie have been very active in FA compared to Ted.

Seems like that's one man's philosophy here.

Look at who they've targeted and what they've done with those though.

Most free agents are young guys that can play for multiple years. Jimmy graham, Harvin etc.

In the end, they'll take a chance here or there, but they're not gonna push it all in on one year and go full rebuild the next

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by O.city

I also think it's year to year on the 3rd day guys not panning out. Specifically, 4th rounders. If you're to beleive this was such a deep draft and those 4th rounders are normally fringe 2nd 3rd rounders in a normal draft, getting more picks there make sense vs say, 2013.

And it seems Dorsey knew that going into the draft.

Look at the guys we scored in the mid rounds.

Russel, Murray, Hill, the Florida kid.

If those guys pan out like the coaches and scouts think they will...this draft is gonna be a big time difference maker.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Takes over a 2 win football team, wins 31 games and the franchises first playoff game in 2 decades, still gets shit from Discuss.

Again with the "two win team" trope I thought was reserved for Smith cultists.

Okay then.

The Chiefs were two blocked FGs from making consecutive playoff appearances after being quarterbacked by Matt Cassel, Tyler Palko and Kyle Orton. That would have been the first time the Chiefs had back to back playoff appearances since 1993-1994. And they would have achieved this feat after having the ignominy of switching from a loose cannon asshole HC in Todd Haley to the NFL's epitome of the Peter Principle in Romeo Crennel in that second season... which also featured the loss of two of four core players John Dorsey inherited in 2013 due to ACL tears.

Two blocked FGs from making the playoffs in back to back seasons with trash at QB, mediocre (at best) receivers, one year of a great running attack followed by one somehow duct-taped together by a JAG in Jackie Battle and below average coaching over that span.

DROY from the draft; Pro Bowl TE, 3 WAY undervalued years from Sean Smith, Ware, West, great gets in Howard and Parker, Abdullah, Demps and Branch, getting better play from your 2nd round center than the guy the Raiders took from us for $9 million/season

Kelce, Parker and Howard have been wins and are all locked up. That's exactly what Dorsey should be doing. The other guys aren't here anymore and have left behind holes that we're hoping are going to be filled by rookies taken this year. That's not an ideal scenario. Additionally, Abdullah, Branch and Smith were the only players you've championed Dorsey for picking up that contributed to team that won a playoff game. Are you seriously saying getting the Raiders to overpay for Hudson is going to directly lead to more KC playoff wins in the future? Demps is JAG and West/Ware have been great pick ups but it's also at a position where it's easier to get starters out of late round picks or UDFA signings.

- meh, the Steelers keep getting cheap LT play! I mean....their line has been dogshit for a decade, but VALUE.

It's the clearest example I could quickly find of a FO getting the most out of a cheap acquisition in either a rookie UDFA or veteran cast-off signing. Value judgments about the Steelers' OL aside (when it looks like the NFL has been in a state where offensive line play is below average league wide), my point is they've found a starter at the most important OL spot from a JAG castoff -a TE convert at that. If the Steelers come across an OT through the draft or through FA signings that is demonstratively better than Villanueva, then they can kick Villanueva back to RT at best or have him as a decent swing tackle in reserve at worst. That's a great place to be roster wise in terms of depth and salary cap availability.

KC's best comparison for Villanueva is Ron Parker; picked a guy off the WW scrapheap and have him locked down in the medium term to a manageable contract. They're in no rush to upgrade from him in the short term as a starter, but if the chance comes through the draft or FA (with a cheaper contract) then they're free to make that move.

Second best comparison I can think of would be Mauga, and they've made moves to upgrade ILB that haven't come to fruition quite yet.

Whether or not the Steelers have had a comparatively better or worse OL aside: wouldn't it have been better from a salary cap standpoint that the Chiefs found their own version of Villanueva -be it as a JAG castoff or as a developed UDFA from the previous three seasons- in having a guy that's worth starting at the the most important position on the OL but the team has the luxury of putting him at RT instead of being forced to sign a FA like Schwartz?

That's my point and something I mentioned in a response to RunKC: Dorsey, the scouts / coaching staff seemingly haven't been finding rookies that can project the confidence in being able play at OT and have focused instead on multi-position upside but primarily at OG and C. Perhaps that's a product of having three years of having Allen and Stephenson who are guys ostensibly able to play at OT and being able to expend draft pick resources at other positions of need instead of "reaching" for a pure tackle prospect.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

He's a troll, plain and simple.

He's not a troll. He's just an idiot.

Hence why he drafted not one, but two two down players in the 1st in the CP mock.

[ThaVirus]

He isn't a troll, but damn. He's just so negative and wrong all the damn time. No pleasing him.

You can't bitch about Dorsey giving contracts to keep guys and then turn around and immediately bitch about him letting guys walk. "The other guys are gone and have left behind holes that we're hoping are going to be filled by rookies". Happens to every team every year. Can't pay everyone.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

He isn't a troll, but damn. He's just so negative and wrong all the damn time. No pleasing him.

You can't bitch about Dorsey giving contracts to keep guys and then turn around and immediately bitch about him letting guys walk. "The other guys are gone and have left behind holes that we're hoping are going to be filled by rookies". Happens to every team every year. Can't pay everyone.

If Paxton Lynch was a Chief this conversation would be very different coming from him.

[Mr. Laz]

I guess we couldn't get shit for Knile Davis or BrainDead Thomas.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by RunKC

If Paxton Lynch was a Chief this conversation would be very different coming from him.

That's delving back to a Smith discussion which nobody wants to get into. But had KC taken Lynch, it's not likely he sees the field until 2018 at the earliest anyway and what's to follow isn't as applicable.

You can't bitch about Dorsey giving contracts to keep guys and then turn around and immediately bitch about him letting guys walk. "The other guys are gone and have left behind holes that we're hoping are going to be filled by rookies". Happens to every team every year. Can't pay everyone.

Topic here is whether or not Fisher is worth $50MM or $11-15MM a year.

Do I think he's personally worth that? No, not unless he sustains the level of play he showed last year, but you can't fault Dorsey for inevitably signing him (or more) for that when the time comes because:

1) "That's the market"

and

2) There isn't anyone currently on the roster that can replace him, unless Schwartz can play at the left as good as he can on the right.

Reason one is what it is, but reason two is a product of going for utility OL guys (which is understandable) in the draft and not finding guys who can play at LT at any sort of level. This magnifies the drawback of the first reason where Dorsey has little-to-no leverage with Fisher's agent for a fair deal, with "fair" being understood as less generous than what Armstead and Glenn have received because of Fisher only having a portion of his career demonstrating the capability of being a franchise LT.

As for other guys being replaced this year by rookies: that's inevitable and how things are supposed to be. Ideally, you pay whatever it takes to keep your franchise QB, LT, and best pass rusher. Same goes for positions of importance (#1 CB, #1 WR, center, DL, LB or S depending on scheme and the individual players in question). The rub is that for guys of that tier of importance and the one immediately following it, you are in a position to let the Branchs and Sean Smiths go because you've got replacements in the pipeline.

So far this hasn't been the case. There's seemingly a glut of interior OL guys but as far as tackles go it's just Fisher, Schwartz and Reid. Again, that's probably because the FO tried to get as much as they could out of Stephenson and Allen while being saddled with draft classes that aren't turning out good OL in general, but it's concerning they haven't tried to develop their own swing or starting OT outside of Fisher.

At DB, they've developed Gaines, Peters and Sorenson but this year opted to take fliers on rookies to replace Abdullah, Branch and Smith. There'll be growing pains this season, but the draft class could very well exceed the benefit KC got from 2008 in taking Carr and Flowers in 2017 and beyond. They made the right calls on making those picks this year, but ideally they should have at least one of those holes filled with a guy already on the roster. Nelson might make Smith's departure more than tolerable if he can play competently at the nickel with the assumption Gaines is more than adequate opposite Peters, but there isn't a lot of evidence either way in Nelson's defense.

Similar story for WR opposite Maclin. Though Conley could very well develop into a guy that makes defenses pay for focusing on Maclin and Kelce as the receiving threats in a year or so. Having him arrive this season would be more than welcome (obviously) but I don't think anyone would realistically expect this to be the case. Wilson's been a project, but I think his track record so far in KC doesn't warrant consideration as anything more than a #4 WR given his size and skillset.

I'd say that the Ford pick instead of finding a means to trade down at best or "reach" for a position of need in CB/WR was the biggest mistakes the FO has made in terms of magnitude, followed by the Maclin tampering issue and then taking Thomas when opting for just about any other position of need would have been a better move. The 2013 draft and FA signing was about as good as you can expect, same can be said of the 2015 class barring a series of catastrophes. These mishaps weren't crippling, but they sure haven't made things easy on Dorsey et al.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by RunKC

If Paxton Lynch was a Chief this conversation would be very different coming from him.

yep, some people will continue to rage until we get QB they approve of.

Dorsey is a meat and potatoes type of guy. I think he prefers a bunch of mid-round picks over a single 1st rounder. Trading up is just not him.

Since drafting him, i have heard a lot of good things about Hogan though. It's going to take awhile to fix his mechanics but maybe he can be a stud.