Chiefs I think I understand the new defense.

Chris Meck · 04-27-2009, 12:24 PM

Ok.
So, I've been confused like everyone else, but I think I now understand what we're going to be doing defensively and how the personnel will fit.

In what our version of the 3-4 will be:

the left outside linebacker will line up on the outside shoulder of the tackle to head up on the TE . This is more like a classic LDE in terms of responsibilities. Outside containment/pass rush type stuff. This is where Hali fits as an OLB. Basically pretty much the same as his role in the 4-3. He can play a little lighter if he likes, as he won't be singled up on the Tackle pretty much ever because:

the LDE will line up on the outside shoulder of the RG (B gap). His job is to shoot that gap between the guard and tackle, attacking the line of scrimmage, disrupting the blocking scheme. This is where you'd use Glenn Dorsey. The role is very similar to what a penetrating DT in a 4-3 scheme would be doing. This is what Haley said they'd do with Dorsey in the PC yesterday. Magee is probably a rotational player at both DE spots. So no more 'Dorsey is a bad fit at NT' talk. That's not the plan, because:

Ron Edwards and Tank Tyler are your NT. However, they're not going to be traditional NT's in the Ted Washington mold. They too will have one gap responsibility, usually shading to the strong side on the center's outside shoulder, (A gap) but not always. They don't need to be 350 pound space eaters, as they're not playing two gap. Personally, I think Tyler is the most promising guy at this spot physically.

Your RILB would be the player that is basically lined up on the center/LG gap (albeit a few yards off the ball) in what would be nearly identical to a classic MLB role (this is what Zach Thomas meant about playing MLB).

Your LILB (Derrick Johnson's spot) is your 'flow to the ball' playmaker. He's covered by the LOLB outside and the LDE right in front of him. On a running play up the gut, for example, the center would take on ONE of the ILB's, but not likely get both, so this guy will probably rack up a ton of tackles.

Your RDE (Jackson) will be on the LG's outside shoulder, with one gap responsibility there. If the guard can't handle him alone, they're in real trouble, because outside the tackle is the ROLB (or rush-backer). Outside containment responsibilities, yes-and rush the passer. This is what Vrabel fits in. he's only a year removed from double digit sacks, and that's because he was injured. He needs only to require the Tackle's full attention to be successful, because that means the LDE has got a single man to beat. The whole point of a 6-5 295 monster DE with long arms is that you HAVE to double him. So choose your poison.

Safeties will play a more prominent role in run support than they did in cover 2 (at least our version, in which they were basically non-existant) and corners will probably play some man. I'm not worried about our secondary, actually, I feel pretty good about it and not too much is different for them.

I think I'm pretty accurate about the responsibilities and the personnel I named is based on the interviews with Pioli and/or Haley.

Did I get it right?

**kysirsoze** · 04-27-2009, 12:29 PM

Makes sense to me but I'm not really well educated X's and O's wise.

How much pass coverage responsibility do the LB's have in this system? Just LILB?

Chris Meck · 04-27-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kysirsoze

Makes sense to me but I'm not really well educated X's and O's wise.

How much pass coverage responsibility do the LB's have in this system? Just LILB?

I think it would depend on coverage calls, but I wouldn't think the OLB's would have anything other than maybe swing pass-type responsibilities unless it was some sort of zone blitz. ILB's probably would have more in the short crossing type lanes.

CupidStunt · 04-27-2009, 12:29 PM

Good post. Very accurate. Shame it'll be torn down by idiots.

**Dave Lane** · 04-27-2009, 12:30 PM

Thats pretty damn close. Good post

Chiefnj2 · 04-27-2009, 12:30 PM

You think they are going to play a 34 one gap defense?

Chris Meck · 04-27-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

You think they are going to play a 34 one gap defense?

yeah, basically. I think that's what they mean by it being a 'hybrid'.

but I don't think they'll play it EXCLUSIVELY. I think there'll be some 4-3 and of course, standard nickel and dime stuff.

htismaqe · 04-27-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

You think they are going to play a 34 one gap defense?

They're going to use parts of it, yes.

Chiefnj2 · 04-27-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

They're going to use parts of it, yes.

Aren't the Pats a 2 gap?

CupidStunt · 04-27-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Aren't the Pats a 2 gap?

Yes, but only because they managed to get the personnel for it early on. Washington and then Wilfork, Seymour, Warren, etc. KC has Jackson but Dorsey would not dominate as a two-gapper and neither Tank or Edwards are good enough to play head-up over the center.

Chiefnj2 · 04-27-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

They're going to use parts of it, yes.

I have no idea what KC is going to run. If Dallas plays a 1 gap scheme, and you think KC is going to play a similar scheme, why did Zach Thomas talk about getting away from Dallas' scheme where he wasn't that comfortable.

Chris Meck · 04-27-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I have no idea what KC is going to run. If Dallas plays a 1 gap scheme, and you think KC is going to play a similar scheme, why did Zach Thomas talk about getting away from Dallas' scheme where he wasn't that comfortable.

I think that Zach was playing the other LB spot, with different responsibilities. I think in THIS hybrid, that spot would look almost exactly like a MLB spot in a 4-3, in that you'd be looking at the center basically uncovered when you line up. Hence, his comments about getting back to playing MLB.

again, this is all just my theory.

Chiefnj2 · 04-27-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I think that Zach was playing the other LB spot, with different responsibilities. I think in THIS hybrid, that spot would look almost exactly like a MLB spot in a 4-3, in that you'd be looking at the center basically uncovered when you line up. Hence, his comments about getting back to playing MLB.

again, this is all just my theory.

Again, I have no idea what they are going to run, but if it is the same as the Cards 4-3 under, then, IMHO, taking Jackson at #3 was a horrible mistake.

htismaqe · 04-27-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I have no idea what KC is going to run. If Dallas plays a 1 gap scheme, and you think KC is going to play a similar scheme, why did Zach Thomas talk about getting away from Dallas' scheme where he wasn't that comfortable.

In Dallas' scheme, similar to what we ran in the early 90's, the ILB's have responsbilities that nearly mirror the MLB and WLB spots in a traditional 4-3. Thomas' issue wasn't with the 3-4 as much as it was that he was playing the "weakside" ILB instead of the "middle" ILB.

OctoberFart · 04-27-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

You think they are going to play a 34 one gap defense?

It's really a 50 4-3 defense ran with 3-4 personel. It is traditionally used when a team transitions to a full blown 3-4 like NE and is much easier to mask weaknesses. They did the same thing in NE and Balt when they transitioned.

04-27-2009, 12:24 PM	Topic Starter
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1914910	I think I understand the new defense. Ok. So, I've been confused like everyone else, but I think I now understand what we're going to be doing defensively and how the personnel will fit. In what our version of the 3-4 will be: the left outside linebacker will line up on the outside shoulder of the tackle to head up on the TE . This is more like a classic LDE in terms of responsibilities. Outside containment/pass rush type stuff. This is where Hali fits as an OLB. Basically pretty much the same as his role in the 4-3. He can play a little lighter if he likes, as he won't be singled up on the Tackle pretty much ever because: the LDE will line up on the outside shoulder of the RG (B gap). His job is to shoot that gap between the guard and tackle, attacking the line of scrimmage, disrupting the blocking scheme. This is where you'd use Glenn Dorsey. The role is very similar to what a penetrating DT in a 4-3 scheme would be doing. This is what Haley said they'd do with Dorsey in the PC yesterday. Magee is probably a rotational player at both DE spots. So no more 'Dorsey is a bad fit at NT' talk. That's not the plan, because: Ron Edwards and Tank Tyler are your NT. However, they're not going to be traditional NT's in the Ted Washington mold. They too will have one gap responsibility, usually shading to the strong side on the center's outside shoulder, (A gap) but not always. They don't need to be 350 pound space eaters, as they're not playing two gap. Personally, I think Tyler is the most promising guy at this spot physically. Your RILB would be the player that is basically lined up on the center/LG gap (albeit a few yards off the ball) in what would be nearly identical to a classic MLB role (this is what Zach Thomas meant about playing MLB). Your LILB (Derrick Johnson's spot) is your 'flow to the ball' playmaker. He's covered by the LOLB outside and the LDE right in front of him. On a running play up the gut, for example, the center would take on ONE of the ILB's, but not likely get both, so this guy will probably rack up a ton of tackles. Your RDE (Jackson) will be on the LG's outside shoulder, with one gap responsibility there. If the guard can't handle him alone, they're in real trouble, because outside the tackle is the ROLB (or rush-backer). Outside containment responsibilities, yes-and rush the passer. This is what Vrabel fits in. he's only a year removed from double digit sacks, and that's because he was injured. He needs only to require the Tackle's full attention to be successful, because that means the LDE has got a single man to beat. The whole point of a 6-5 295 monster DE with long arms is that you HAVE to double him. So choose your poison. Safeties will play a more prominent role in run support than they did in cover 2 (at least our version, in which they were basically non-existant) and corners will probably play some man. I'm not worried about our secondary, actually, I feel pretty good about it and not too much is different for them. I think I'm pretty accurate about the responsibilities and the personnel I named is based on the interviews with Pioli and/or Haley. Did I get it right?
Posts: 17,534

04-27-2009, 12:29 PM	#2
kysirsoze SNAP THE ****ING BALL!!! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $3736946	Makes sense to me but I'm not really well educated X's and O's wise. How much pass coverage responsibility do the LB's have in this system? Just LILB?
Posts: 11,295

04-27-2009, 12:29 PM	#4
CupidStunt offense > defense Join Date: Jul 2005 Casino cash: $2503332	Good post. Very accurate. Shame it'll be torn down by idiots.
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04-27-2009, 12:30 PM	#5
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	Thats pretty damn close. Good post __________________ Thanks, Trump for the civics lesson. We are learning so much about RICO, espionage, sedition, impeachment, the 25th Amendment, order of succession, nepotism, separation of powers, 1st Amendment, obstruction of justice, the emoluments clause, conflicts of interest, collusion, sanctions, oligarchs, money laundering and so much more.
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04-27-2009, 12:30 PM	#6
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7873688	You think they are going to play a 34 one gap defense? __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
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