**** OFFICIAL 2013-2014 Kansas Basketball Repository Thread, Part 2 ****

[ArrowheadHawk]

#10 (23-8,14-4)

Players

Spoiler!

Returning Players
1 Naadir Tharpe Guard 5-11 170 Jr.
3 Andrew White III Guard 6-6 210 So.
4 Justin Wesley Forward 6-9 220 RS Sr.
10 Evan Manning Guard 6-3 170 So.
11 Tyler Self Guard 6-2 165 So.
20 Niko Roberts Guard 5-11 175 Sr.
21 Christian Garrett Guard 6-3 185 Jr.
31 Jamari Traylor Forward 6-8 220 RS So.
33 Landen Lucas Forward 6-10 240 RS Fr.
34 Perry Ellis Forward 6-8 225 So.

Incoming Class
SF ***** Wayne Selden
C ***** Joel Embiid
PG **** Conner Frankamp
SF **** Brannen Greene
PG **** Frank Mason
SF ***** Andrew Wiggins

Transfers
Hunter Mickelson
Tarik Black

Non Conference

Spoiler!

11/8/2013 Louisiana Monroe Lawrence, Kan. W(80-63) (1-0)
11/12/2013 Duke Chicago, Ill. W(94-83) (2-0)
11/19/2013 Iona Lawrence, Kan. W(86-66) (3-0)
11/22/2013 Towson W(88-58) (4-0)
11/28/2013 Wake Forest Paradise Island, Bahamas W(87-78) (5-0)
11/29/2013 Villanova Paradise Island, Bahamas L(59-63) (5-1)
11/30/2013 UTEP Paradise Island, Bahamas W(67-63) (6-1)
12/7/2013 Colorado Boulder, Colo. L(72-75) (6-2)
12/10/2013 Florida Gainesville, Fla. L(61-67) (6-3)
12/14/2013 New Mexico Kansas City, Mo. W(80-63)(7-3)
12/21/2013 Georgetown Lawrence, Kan. W(86-64)(8-3)
12/30/2013 Toledo Lawrence, Kan. W(93-83)(9-3)
1/5/2014 San Diego State Lawrence, Kan. L(57-61)(9-4)

Conference

Spoiler!

1/8/2014 Oklahoma Norman, Okla. W(90-83)(10-4,1-0)
1/11/2014 Kansas State Lawrence, Kan. W(86-60)(11-4,2-0)
1/13/2014 Iowa State Ames, Iowa W(77-70)(12-4,3-0)
1/18/2014 Oklahoma State Lawrence, Kan. W(80-78)(13-4,4-0)
1/20/2014 Baylor Lawrence, Kan. W(78-68)(14-4,5-0)
1/25/2014 TCU Fort Worth, Texas W(91-69)(15-4,6-0)
1/29/2014 Iowa State Lawrence, Kan. W(92-81)(16-4,7-0)
2/1/2014 Texas Austin, Texas L(69-81)(16-5,7-1)
2/4/2014 Baylor Waco, Texas W(69-52)(17-5,8-1)
2/8/2014 West Virginia Lawrence, Kan. W(83-69)(18-5,9-1)
2/10/2014 Kansas State Manhattan, Kan. L(82-85)(18-6,9-2)
2/15/2014 TCU Lawrence, Kan. W(95-65)(19-6,10-2)
2/18/2014 Texas Tech Lubbock, Texas W(64-63)(20-6,11-2)
2/22/2014 Texas Lawrence, Kan. W(85-54)(21-6,12-2)
2/24/2014 Oklahoma Lawrence, Kan. W(83-75)(22-6,13-2)
3/1/2014 Oklahoma State Stillwater, Okla. L(65-72)(22-7,13-3)
3/5/2014 Texas Tech Lawrence, Kan. W(82-57)(23-7,14-3)
3/8/2014 West Virginia Morgantown, W. Va. L(86-92)(23-8,14-4)

Big 12 Championship
3/13/2014 Texas Tech/Oklahoma State Kansas City, Mo. 2PM ESPN2

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Oh, I understand the points. There's an intense dislike of flopping here. I just think that for most KU fans petty hatred has pervaded through all of it.

I'm sure that's part of it for even some rational fans, and of course anyone who whines about stuff like the back flip will more than likely let that hatred cloud anything he does.

Speaking for myself though, it is all 100% about the flopping. Take someone like Ryan Kesler... hate watching him flop around with the Canucks. Didn't think twice about it watching him on Team USA though, since it wasn't part of his game. First half Marcus Smart against KU? Hated it. Late second half Marcus Smart? I want that guy on my team, and it also makes me hate first half Marcus Smart even more.

So, it's pretty simple. I'm sure some people would complain about the slap or other small stuff regardless, but knowing how much of a clown he is definitely adds to it in this case, since there's really no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Response to a stimulus (the push) and then response without conscious thought (the tame slap that's been gradually turned into some vicious attack). Same thing happened to Embiid when he gave a shot to Nino Williams (and then I believe it happened a game after that too when he got hit in the face and then swung his arms, but didn't make contact). Neither was a calculated decision by either player and clearly fits the definition that I posted.

I didn't say it was a vicious attack. I said it was out of the bounds of the game, stupid, and hardly a reflex. In both cases, they got hit, sized up their opponent and delivered a hit. That's a reaction, not a reflex. A reflex is out of your control. They could both have chosen not to. If you'll notice, Embiid has gotten it under control. He gets hit every game now, but he doesn't retaliate. He's controlling it, meaning it's not a reflex.

And when I played sports competitively (particularly hockey), I can often remember giving people shots without thinking about it if they checked me. There was nothing pre-considered about it, it was just an instinctive thing to getting hit.

Hockey is not basketball. Retaliatory shoves are expected and allowed. Hardly the same in basketball.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Silock

I didn't say it was a vicious attack. I said it was out of the bounds of the game, stupid, and hardly a reflex. In both cases, they got bit, sized up their opponent and delivered a hit. That's a reaction, not a reflex. A reflex is out of your control. They could both have chosen not to. If you'll notice, Embiid has gotten it under control. He gets hit every game now, but he doesn't retaliate. He's controlling it, meaning it's not a reflex.

Again, a reflex action is "performed as a response to a stimulus and without conscious thought." I fail to see how what Smart and Embiid did doesn't fit that definition. There was no sizing up of their opponent or pre-consideration of their actions. It was an immediate unthinking response. And while true about Embiid, I also can't recall the last time he was hit in the head like in those previous occurrences. If it happens again, that might provoke a different response.

Hockey is not basketball. Retaliatory shoves are expected and allowed. Hardly the same in basketball.

I don't know. I've done similar in basketball, like for instance, after receiving a hard screen.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Again, a reflex action is "performed as a response to a stimulus and without conscious thought." I fail to see how what Smart and Embiid did doesn't fit that definition. There was no sizing up of their opponent or pre-consideration of their actions. It was an immediate unthinking response. And while true about Embiid, I also can't recall the last time he was hit in the head like in those previous occurrences. If it happens again, that might provoke a different response.

He's not at the doctor getting his knee tapped with a little rubber mallet. They both delivered hits after looking up. Sorry, but it's just not a reflex. It is a matter of getting angry and retaliating. There absolutely was sizing up. Go back and look. They knew exactly what they were doing. And they were both wrong.

I don't know. I've done similar in basketball, like for instance, after receiving a hard screen.

Sounds like you've got a lot of Marcus Smart in you, which would explain why you defend everything he does.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Silock

He's not at the doctor getting his knee tapped with a little rubber mallet. They both delivered hits after looking up. Sorry, but it's just not a reflex. It is a matter of getting angry and retaliating. There absolutely was sizing up. Go back and look. They knew exactly what they were doing. And they were both wrong.

I disagree entirely. I saw no evidence of sizing up from either one and every indication of an unthinking reflex action. They just got hit and took a response immediately.

Sounds like you've got a lot of Marcus Smart in you, which would explain why you defend everything he does.

Because I used to retaliate to getting hit when I played competitive sports? What else are you supposed to do?

Shit, you should have seen me playing rugby, now there's a violent game.

[Buehler445]

I've stayed out of this for a long time, but a couple points here.

I never said much about the intentional Embiid got during the ISU game. I thought it was EPIC ****ING DUMB when he smacked Nino Williams in the KSUck game, and said as much. That was dumb. Fortunately he learned from it. But there are a couple of differences between the two. Smart has played more basketball before he got to high school than Embiid has, and it is certainly different in Cameroon. Even with all that shit, what Embiid did to Nino Williams is unacceptable. Much like Smart's dumb, and unacceptable.

As far as the flopping, from my perspective at least, it's frustrating because a lot of time it is dumb, and almost always, he doesn't need to do it. Like the time that he flopped twice on one drive? He flopped at the 3 point line, got up and flopped down by the block. He got a foul called on him. If he would have played straight up defense, there very likely would have been a better outcome. That kid wasn't getting around him.

And in the ISU game, it was close at the end, and Smart breaks out on the fast break, gets across half court side by side with an ISU guy. He flails around and doesn't get the call. **** that bullshit. You've already got a step on the dude. Get to the rack and you're likely to get a foul AFTER you break the rim off. I understand he wanted the foul, but he would have got it, Smart had a couple inches and several pounds on the kid and had the angle. So then the correct answer is flop? Get that shit out of here.

Don't pretend like every time he flops he helps his team. There is a big difference between exaggerating contact on a shot after you shoot it and selling out and giving something up if you don't get the call. It's stupid. Almost always, if he'd get after it, there isn't anybody in college that can stop him or beat him. But he chooses to flop. It makes my brain hurt.

He's a good player and is going to make more money next year than I will in the next 15 probably. But if he'd get after and play, he'd be far better and far more unstoppable. The two games he (pretty much by himself) beat KU, he did it by being unstoppable. Not a flopping ****.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I disagree entirely. I saw no evidence of sizing up from either one and every indication of an unthinking reflex action. They just got hit and took a response immediately.

Then you're only seeing what you want to see.

Because I used to retaliate to getting hit when I played competitive sports? What else are you supposed to do?

NOT retaliate and hit your opponent. Novel concept, I know.

I just want to see him take some responsibility for his actions. Flops multiple times per game to deceive the ref and get a call. Throws a temper tantrum and a chair. Lies about racial slur and shoves a fan. Slaps a dude in the face. Lies about his coach showing video of a Self talking about cutting down nets in GiA.

Dude needs to grow up.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Silock

Then you're only seeing what you want to see.

I could just as easily say the same for you.

NOT retaliate and hit your opponent. Novel concept, I know.

Why not? It certainly had a way of stopping the checks and hard screens from that point in the game.

I just want to see him take some responsibility for his actions. Flops multiple times per game to deceive the ref and get a call. Lies about racial slur and shoves a fan. Slaps a dude in the face. Lies about his coach showing video of a Self talking about cutting down nets in GiA.

Most of that is pretty petty stuff to hate him for. The only thing there that he should really have to apologize for is losing control and pushing that fan. Although, when a guy is directing insults/likely racial slurs at him, it's hard to blame him too much for that.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I could just as easily say the same for you.

Okay.

Why not? It certainly had a way of stopping the checks and hard screens from that point in the game.

Because in basketball, it's illegal. Let the ref call the game.

Most of that is petty stuff. The only thing there that he should really have to apologize for is losing control and pushing that fan. Although, when a guy is directing insults/likely racial slurs at him, it's hard to blame him too much for that.

Ugh, whatever, man. You're smarter than this, which is what is so frustrating about this conversation.

[Silock]

Speaking of PGs, I'd take Staten over Smart right now.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Don't pretend like every time he flops he helps his team. There is a big difference between exaggerating contact on a shot after you shoot it and selling out and giving something up if you don't get the call. It's stupid. Almost always, if he'd get after it, there isn't anybody in college that can stop him or beat him. But he chooses to flop. It makes my brain hurt.

Not every time, but on average, it does. Flopping is incentivized in basketball.

He's a good player and is going to make more money next year than I will in the next 15 probably. But if he'd get after and play, he'd be far better and far more unstoppable. The two games he (pretty much by himself) beat KU, he did it by being unstoppable. Not a flopping ****

Perhaps, but I've seen very few players "get after and play" as hard or as often as Smart in all my years watching basketball. That might be his greatest attribute.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Silock

Because in basketball, it's illegal. Let the ref call the game.

Legal or not, I had no desire to have people giving me hard screens all game.

Ugh, whatever, man. You're smarter than this, which is what is so frustrating about this conversation.

We can't all blindly hate college athletes with your kind of passion, I'm afraid.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Silock

Speaking of PGs, I'd take Staten over Smart right now.

Staten is very good, but Smart is a significantly better player overall. Defense is the biggest difference.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Not every time, but on average, it does. Flopping is incentivized in basketball.

Maybe. I haven't seen anybody track it, but you're probably right, overall. It's just wildly frustrating to watch him sell out on the flop when playing straight up will get the job done. It is stupid. Particularly when you are the best one on the floor by a mile.


Perhaps, but I've seen very few players "get after and play" as hard or as often as Smart in all my years watching basketball. That might be his greatest attribute.[/QUOTE]

When he doesn't sell out against the flop, I agree. That's why it's dumb when he sells out against the flop.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

We can't all blindly hate college athletes with your kind of passion, I'm afraid.

Blindly? Lol Dude, this is why people can't have a conversation with you. Lots of legit points made, but you ignore them all.