Chiefs Pioli trying to turn this ball club into the Bengals

B_Ambuehl · 05-11-2009, 12:22 PM

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...-on-character/

Does Pioli Draft On Character?

The Kansas City Chiefs and new General Manager Scott Pioli went through their first draft together last month with mixed reviews. Now, we are hearing some rumblings that the Chiefs have drafted some players with character issues. Today we take a look at some of Pioli’s draft picks and decide if he is drafting for wins over character.

Character Counts?

Look, we all know that character is a big word that is thrown around the NFL these days. Fans question it and the media runs with it—while the teams involved talk about it from a distance.

Does it matter? In my opinion, yes and no. Do you draft a guy that can help your team win, knowing that he brings with him some extra luggage that could lead to future issues as a professional athlete? Or, do you just bypass the player all together, not taking the time or the effort to sweep his background under the rug? And what about work ethic? Is this something that can be cured at the NFL Level?

Hey, I know as well as anybody that you have to roll the dice on some players in this league to win, and like I have said before the NFL is the business of winning.

But, are the Chiefs and Pioli—the same guy who came from New England where character never seemed to deter that franchise—falling under the spell that character is not a concern in the NFL when it comes to winning? Or, does Pioli know more than we do after I talked to some people around the league about some issues in his current draft class?

That is the question for us today, and something that our own Michael Lombardi wrote about yesterday in his Sunday column when discussing the Chiefs recent draft class—and the character issues that are coming along for the ride.

The Draft

Drafts are unknowns, and that is why we don’t hand out ludicrous draft grades here at the NFP in the spring. Nobody knows who is going to play well as a pro, or who is going to flop once they put that NFL jersey on.

And, that is why I am not talking today about Tyson Jackson going No. 3 overall to the Chiefs. Was it a reach? Who knows, and if we want to go there, then count every single one of the top ten picks as a reach—because we don’t know if they will ever be able to produce in this league.

But, we can speculate on character as it applies to the draft. Yes, I agree that the Chiefs and Pioli shouldn’t be compared with the Bengals when it comes to their current draft class—yet—but there are some names in front of me today that at least make me wonder.

Our own NFP Draft Expert, Wes Bunting shared his notes with me on four draft picks in KC that have me scratching my head today.

Jake O’Connell, TE Miami (Ohio)- Blessed athlete that never took to coaching and never developed as a big time threat. 6-3, 250 with 4.5 speed, but never real productive and lacked technique and polish. Always relied on his athletic ability and never put in the work on the practice field.

Javriss Williams, RB, Tenn. St- Refused to sit at a big time school, elected to go to a small school and play right away. Rubbed some people the wrong way on the recruiting trail, but is said to be a “good guy” from the coaching staff.

Quinten Lawrence, WR, McNeese St- Injury concern, has had trouble staying healthy. Has a track body. Has had trouble adding bulk to his frame over the years. Questionable work ethic in the weight room, is only 6-0, 183 and is said to have simply packed it in after his ankle injury his senior year to get ready for the pros.

Donald Washington, DB, Ohio State- Was suspended the first two games of the 2008 season for violating team rules at Ohio State.

Character issues and work ethic in a Scott Pioli draft? Like me, many of the people I talk to in NFL circles are asking the same thing: What is the theory behind drafting these players that most clubs would shy away from?

Does it matter on the field?

Not really—until those character issues become a major issue that prevents these players from performing on Sundays.

We all know there are plenty of prospects that come into this league with some backgrounds that are eye opening to say the least, but at the end of the day, they are still very good football players. And I agree that this is a discussion that probably has no clear ending in site, because what do you sacrifice for the betterment of the public eye? Wins? Not at this level, folks.

But, it still makes us think when discussing Pioli, because this is not something we are accustomed with when discussing his past as a personnel executive.

I don’t remember an instance in New England when Pioli took a player that has some red flags attached to his name. Yes, you can tell me all you want about the Patriots signing Randy Moss as a free agent after he flamed out in Oakland, but I know for a fact that Moss was told to play by the Patriots’ rules or he was gone.

Maybe that is what Pioli is doing in Kansas City. Or, maybe he is drafting to win—and that’s it. Because at the end of the day that will be the deciding factor when we judge his first season in Kansas City.

MoreLemonPledge · 05-11-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

Jake O’Connell, TE Miami (Ohio)- Blessed athlete that never took to coaching and never developed as a big time threat. 6-3, 250 with 4.5 speed, but never real productive and lacked technique and polish. Always relied on his athletic ability and never put in the work on the practice field.

Javriss Williams, RB, Tenn. St- Refused to sit at a big time school, elected to go to a small school and play right away. Rubbed some people the wrong way on the recruiting trail, but is said to be a “good guy” from the coaching staff.

Quinten Lawrence, WR, McNeese St- Injury concern, has had trouble staying healthy. Has a track body. Has had trouble adding bulk to his frame over the years. Questionable work ethic in the weight room, is only 6-0, 183 and is said to have simply packed it in after his ankle injury his senior year to get ready for the pros.

These aren't even character issues. WTF is the point of this article?

Chiefnj2 · 05-11-2009, 12:28 PM

I'm willing to bet the author has never met and/or interviewed any of the players he is questioning, nor did he directly speak with any of their coaches.

htismaqe · 05-11-2009, 12:30 PM

Interestingly enough, the author of article doesn't approve of the thread title.

But, we can speculate on character as it applies to the draft. Yes, I agree that the Chiefs and Pioli shouldn’t be compared with the Bengals when it comes to their current draft class—yet—but there are some names in front of me today that at least make me wonder.

Go figure.

**Mr. Kotter** · 05-11-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I'm willing to bet the author has never met and/or interviewed any of the players he is questioning, nor did he directly speak with any of their coaches.

Yup.

**Kyle DeLexus** · 05-11-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreLemonPledge

These aren't even character issues. WTF is the point of this article?

I agree, JFC

DaWolf · 05-11-2009, 12:32 PM

So to review, two 7th rounders, a 6th rounder and a 4th rounder with questions equates to becoming the Bengals?

My thinking is that at this point in the draft, pretty much everyone has some kind of issue, otherwise they'd be a higher pick.

You can take a few scouting notes and do whatever you want with them, but the reason people find gems in the late rounds is because they go beyond the scouting notes and reports and do their homework. Did the Chiefs do that? Who knows. These guys may all be out of the league in a few years. But c'mon, this guy is just struggling to come up with a story here...

kc rush · 05-11-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreLemonPledge

These aren't even character issues. WTF is the point of this article?

My thoughts as well while reading through this.

**Reaper16** · 05-11-2009, 12:32 PM

It seems that Reed Richards wrote that article.

RustShack · 05-11-2009, 12:35 PM

Is it just me or was Washington the only one close to having character issues?

MoreLemonPledge · 05-11-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Is it just me or was Washington the only one close to having character issues?

And he was suspended for unspecified reasons. Maybe he wore the wrong color sweater vest to practice and Jim Tressel was in a pissy mood.

**the Talking Can** · 05-11-2009, 12:40 PM

talk about making stuff up

a 6th round pick with an injury history makes us the bengals?

that is WPI level stupidity

B_Ambuehl · 05-11-2009, 12:40 PM

It amazes me the number of excuses homer goggles create. Those are the same type of excuses the Bengals use on a yearly basis. If the Raiders or Bengals had drafted these same players all you people making excuses would be laughing at them and saying "same old same old"

**Reaper16** · 05-11-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

It amazes me the number of excuses homer goggles create. Those are the same type of excuses the Bengals use on a yearly basis. If the Raiders or Bengals had drafted these same players all you people making excuses would be laughing at them and saying "same old same old"

No.

Pants · 05-11-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

It amazes me the number of excuses homer goggles create. Those are the same type of excuses the Bengals use on a yearly basis. If the Raiders or Bengals had drafted these same players all you people making excuses would be laughing at them and saying "same old same old"

Yeah, no.

That article = fail. Prolly written by jew, amirite?

05-11-2009, 12:22 PM
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9805405	Pioli trying to turn this ball club into the Bengals http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...-on-character/ Does Pioli Draft On Character? The Kansas City Chiefs and new General Manager Scott Pioli went through their first draft together last month with mixed reviews. Now, we are hearing some rumblings that the Chiefs have drafted some players with character issues. Today we take a look at some of Pioli’s draft picks and decide if he is drafting for wins over character. Character Counts? Look, we all know that character is a big word that is thrown around the NFL these days. Fans question it and the media runs with it—while the teams involved talk about it from a distance. Does it matter? In my opinion, yes and no. Do you draft a guy that can help your team win, knowing that he brings with him some extra luggage that could lead to future issues as a professional athlete? Or, do you just bypass the player all together, not taking the time or the effort to sweep his background under the rug? And what about work ethic? Is this something that can be cured at the NFL Level? Hey, I know as well as anybody that you have to roll the dice on some players in this league to win, and like I have said before the NFL is the business of winning. But, are the Chiefs and Pioli—the same guy who came from New England where character never seemed to deter that franchise—falling under the spell that character is not a concern in the NFL when it comes to winning? Or, does Pioli know more than we do after I talked to some people around the league about some issues in his current draft class? That is the question for us today, and something that our own Michael Lombardi wrote about yesterday in his Sunday column when discussing the Chiefs recent draft class—and the character issues that are coming along for the ride. The Draft Drafts are unknowns, and that is why we don’t hand out ludicrous draft grades here at the NFP in the spring. Nobody knows who is going to play well as a pro, or who is going to flop once they put that NFL jersey on. And, that is why I am not talking today about Tyson Jackson going No. 3 overall to the Chiefs. Was it a reach? Who knows, and if we want to go there, then count every single one of the top ten picks as a reach—because we don’t know if they will ever be able to produce in this league. But, we can speculate on character as it applies to the draft. Yes, I agree that the Chiefs and Pioli shouldn’t be compared with the Bengals when it comes to their current draft class—yet—but there are some names in front of me today that at least make me wonder. Our own NFP Draft Expert, Wes Bunting shared his notes with me on four draft picks in KC that have me scratching my head today. Jake O’Connell, TE Miami (Ohio)- Blessed athlete that never took to coaching and never developed as a big time threat. 6-3, 250 with 4.5 speed, but never real productive and lacked technique and polish. Always relied on his athletic ability and never put in the work on the practice field. Javriss Williams, RB, Tenn. St- Refused to sit at a big time school, elected to go to a small school and play right away. Rubbed some people the wrong way on the recruiting trail, but is said to be a “good guy” from the coaching staff. Quinten Lawrence, WR, McNeese St- Injury concern, has had trouble staying healthy. Has a track body. Has had trouble adding bulk to his frame over the years. Questionable work ethic in the weight room, is only 6-0, 183 and is said to have simply packed it in after his ankle injury his senior year to get ready for the pros. Donald Washington, DB, Ohio State- Was suspended the first two games of the 2008 season for violating team rules at Ohio State. Character issues and work ethic in a Scott Pioli draft? Like me, many of the people I talk to in NFL circles are asking the same thing: What is the theory behind drafting these players that most clubs would shy away from? Does it matter on the field? Not really—until those character issues become a major issue that prevents these players from performing on Sundays. We all know there are plenty of prospects that come into this league with some backgrounds that are eye opening to say the least, but at the end of the day, they are still very good football players. And I agree that this is a discussion that probably has no clear ending in site, because what do you sacrifice for the betterment of the public eye? Wins? Not at this level, folks. But, it still makes us think when discussing Pioli, because this is not something we are accustomed with when discussing his past as a personnel executive. I don’t remember an instance in New England when Pioli took a player that has some red flags attached to his name. Yes, you can tell me all you want about the Patriots signing Randy Moss as a free agent after he flamed out in Oakland, but I know for a fact that Moss was told to play by the Patriots’ rules or he was gone. Maybe that is what Pioli is doing in Kansas City. Or, maybe he is drafting to win—and that’s it. Because at the end of the day that will be the deciding factor when we judge his first season in Kansas City.
Posts: 2,605

05-11-2009, 12:28 PM	#3
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7883688	I'm willing to bet the author has never met and/or interviewed any of the players he is questioning, nor did he directly speak with any of their coaches. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,381

05-11-2009, 12:30 PM	#4
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	Interestingly enough, the author of article doesn't approve of the thread title. But, we can speculate on character as it applies to the draft. Yes, I agree that the Chiefs and Pioli shouldn’t be compared with the Bengals when it comes to their current draft class—yet—but there are some names in front of me today that at least make me wonder. Go figure.
Posts: 100,022

05-11-2009, 12:32 PM	#7
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	So to review, two 7th rounders, a 6th rounder and a 4th rounder with questions equates to becoming the Bengals? My thinking is that at this point in the draft, pretty much everyone has some kind of issue, otherwise they'd be a higher pick. You can take a few scouting notes and do whatever you want with them, but the reason people find gems in the late rounds is because they go beyond the scouting notes and reports and do their homework. Did the Chiefs do that? Who knows. These guys may all be out of the league in a few years. But c'mon, this guy is just struggling to come up with a story here...
Posts: 6,798

05-11-2009, 12:35 PM	#10
RustShack **** That Noise Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jack Trice Casino cash: $4716954	Is it just me or was Washington the only one close to having character issues? __________________
Posts: 15,047

05-11-2009, 12:40 PM	#12
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $10022208	talk about making stuff up a 6th round pick with an injury history makes us the bengals? that is WPI level stupidity __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585