Victoria's Secret Show Angers Native Americans

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Yes, ~90% of the people in North America had just been wiped out by the worst plague in human history. That didn't happen in India, China, or Africa.

What were the populations of those other three countries vs. NA?

Do you not agree that there are non-plague related reasons the natives in NA weren't equipped to resist colonization.

[Bwana]

Geez, they need to get a grip. Some people like to bitch, just to bitch.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by vailpass

What were the populations of those other three countries vs. NA?

Do you not agree that there are non-plague related reasons the natives in NA weren't equipped to resist colonization.

From a quick Google search, so they may not be super accurate, but populations in 1600:

China: 231-250 million
India: 100 million
Africa: 50 million
North America: ~100 million (before plague)

Also, the English and the like had been trying to colonize North America for at least 150 years, and had failed. The Vikings had been trying for 500 years.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

From a quick Google search, so they may not be super accurate, but populations in 1600:

China: 231-250 million
India: 100 million
Africa: 50 million
North America: ~100 million (before plague)

Also, the English and the like had been trying to colonize North America for at least 150 years, and had failed. The Vikings had been trying for 500 years.

90% of them had died prior to the arrival of the colonists?

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by vailpass

90% of them had died prior to the arrival of the colonists?

Estimates seem to range from 90 to 95%.

http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/va.../smallpox.html

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Estimates seem to range from 90 to 95%.

http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/va.../smallpox.html

I think I mentioned this in a thread a while back, but the thing I don't get is why this was a one-way deal. Europeans show up and cough, and 90 million Native Americans start dying. But why didn't the Native Americans cough and kill all of the arriving Europeans?

And presumably no diseases went back to Europe with Columbus and John Smith and Verrazano and all those guys. Why not? Why didn't Europe take the same disease beatdown that the Native Americans took? Was it just sheer luck? Did the Viking expeditions somehow inoculate Europeans? And why didn't the Vikings start the North American plague? Or is it possible that something like the Black Plague was carried from America with the Vikings and nailed the white folk 200 years earlier?

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I think I mentioned this in a thread a while back, but the thing I don't get is why this was a one-way deal. Europeans show up and cough, and 90 million Native Americans start dying. But why didn't the Native Americans cough and kill all of the arriving Europeans?

And presumably no diseases went back to Europe with Columbus and John Smith and Verrazano and all those guys. Why not? Why didn't Europe take the same disease beatdown that the Native Americans took? Was it just sheer luck? Did the Viking expeditions somehow inoculate Europeans? And why didn't the Vikings start the North American plague? Or is it possible that something like the Black Plague was carried from America with the Vikings and nailed the white folk 200 years earlier?

The Europeans lived in cramped conditions with a long history of animal husbandry. They had already been through multiple plagues and represented, genetically, the survivors of those plagues.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I think I mentioned this in a thread a while back, but the thing I don't get is why this was a one-way deal. Europeans show up and cough, and 90 million Native Americans start dying. But why didn't the Native Americans cough and kill all of the arriving Europeans?

And presumably no diseases went back to Europe with Columbus and John Smith and Verrazano and all those guys. Why not? Why didn't Europe take the same disease beatdown that the Native Americans took? Was it just sheer luck? Did the Viking expeditions somehow inoculate Europeans? And why didn't the Vikings start the North American plague? Or is it possible that something like the Black Plague was carried from America with the Vikings and nailed the white folk 200 years earlier?

Off the top of my head, the reason the NA's were so susceptible is because they were such a homogeneous group that they genetically weren't prepared to deal with the infections. Things that would just get a European under the weather could be devastating to NA's. More diverse groups like the Europeans were actually more susceptible to parasites.

Sorry for the shoddy explanation. It was in the book that I mentioned above but it's been awhile since I've read that part and I don't remember the exact reasoning.

[Grim]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Off the top of my head, the reason the NA's were so susceptible is because they were such a homogeneous group that they genetically weren't prepared to deal with the infections. Things that would just get a European under the weather could be devastating to NA's. More diverse groups like the Europeans were actually more susceptible to parasites.

Sorry for the shoddy explanation. It was in the book that I mentioned above but it's been awhile since I've read that part and I don't remember the exact reasoning.

I've heard that as well.
It's the same problem that a lot of our endangered animal species face (cheetahs specifically).
New genes in the pool is never a bad thing.