NFL MVP

[Mile High Mania]

Interesting debates on these every year, here's one from ESPN.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12...demarco-murray

Peyton, Rodgers, Brady, Murray, Watt, Luck...

Where would you guys lean? I don't know, part of me tends to lean towards Murray quite honestly. I think Peyton's crazy 2013 year hurts the image of what he's done in 2014, especially when compared against the other QBs that are getting all the MVP talk. Peyton's right there with them.

Aside from all that, I think it's a pretty even race among the QBs in the discussion... I wouldn't give it Watt, I think my vote with be DeMarco.

[Hootie]

I think the Patriots were favored to beat the Giants by 13.5 in the 18-1 Super Bowl

13.5

yeah

no choke whatsoever

they scored 14 points

the line was Pats -13.5

14 points

yeah

not Brady's fault at all

[Hootie]

Brady drops back

Welker breaks open

NO ONE WITHIN 20 YARDS OF HIM

FOR THE SUPER BOWL!

....

overthrows him

Nope. No choke at all.

Tom never chokes.

[Jim Lahey]

Inaccurate pass? Sure. It still hit Welker in the hands. Should have caught it.

[Hootie]

Oh I'm on record totally calling that a drop I'm just pointing things out to Amnorix who has every excuse in the book for Brady not winning anything meaningful in over a decade yet real quick to try and point out choke jobs from other QB's.

Brady has lost home playoff games to Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez and has been abysmal in other wins in the postseason (see AFCCG against the Ravens in the Lee Evans game) and has played considerably worse football in the postseason than he has in the regular season for an entire decade now ...

I think he's used up all of his passes, and then probably about 100 more, at this point.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Brady has lost as many SBs as Manning has even been to, despite Manning playing for three MORE years. And when Brady loses SBs, he isn't throwing pick-sixes, or getting crushed 43-8.

Manning's problem was he never had a complete team as often as Brady had during that run. (mainly looking at that IND defense) Right now, I dare say that Manning has one of the better teams around him that he's had in his career.

[Hootie]

Patriots fans will tell you they had a historically good defense in the early 2000s

so

they had the greatest clutch kicker ever
the best coach ever
and a historic defense

and Brady won 3 super bowls

and somehow, WITH ALL OF THOSE JOKERS IN HIS HAND, Tom Brady still gets passes 10+ years after all of that happened

because

why?

I'm still waiting for an answer.

[Cmd'r&Chief]

I vote Murray...Aaron Murray

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Patriots fans will tell you they had a historically good defense in the early 2000s

so

they had the greatest clutch kicker ever
the best coach ever
and a historic defense

and Brady won 3 super bowls

and somehow, WITH ALL OF THOSE JOKERS IN HIS HAND, Tom Brady still gets passes 10+ years after all of that happened

because

why?

I'm still waiting for an answer.

Well, they've dominated that division for what 10 out of 11 years? Granted, most of those teams (aside from 2, maybe 3 with the Jets) havl de been crap. They still won a lot of games and they've been to a lot of AFCC games.

[Hootie]

And?

Tom Brady is a great QB. He's the 2nd best QB I've ever seen (behind Peyton).

Peyton and Tom are both phenomenal regular season QB's.

I am curious as to why one gets labeled as a postseason choker, and the other one is considered "clutch"?

What has Tom Brady ever done in the postseason that was clutch?

I just need to know.

And please, let's not refer to Vinatieri and the Spygate Tuck Rule shit of 10+ years ago

I want to know what Tom Brady has done to deserve 10+ years of postseason passes for continuously playing worse football in the postseason than he does in the regular season.

I assume I'll be waiting a long time for an answer to this one.

[RobBlake]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

And?

Tom Brady is a great QB. He's the 2nd best QB I've ever seen (behind Peyton).

Peyton and Tom are both phenomenal regular season QB's.

I am curious as to why one gets labeled as a postseason choker, and the other one is considered "clutch"?

What has Tom Brady ever done in the postseason that was clutch?

I just need to know.

And please, let's not refer to Vinatieri and the Spygate Tuck Rule shit of 10+ years ago

I want to know what Tom Brady has done to deserve 10+ years of postseason passes for continuously playing worse football in the postseason than he does in the regular season.

I assume I'll be waiting a long time for an answer to this one.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...manning/31873/

Tom Brady's teams win more playoff games

Brady has appeared in more playoff games (26) and won more playoff games (18) than any QB in NFL history. Manning, by comparison, has a losing record in the postseason (11-12) – a mark which stands in sharp contrast to his regular-season success.

Brady has been to more conference championship games than any quarterback in history (eight) and he's tied with John Elway for the most Super Bowl appearances (five).

Manning's most notable postseason team records are most losses (12) and most one-and-done appearances (8). Brady's teams have lost a total of eight playoff games in 26 chances.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

And?

Tom Brady is a great QB. He's the 2nd best QB I've ever seen (behind Peyton).

Peyton and Tom are both phenomenal regular season QB's.

I am curious as to why one gets labeled as a postseason choker, and the other one is considered "clutch"?

What has Tom Brady ever done in the postseason that was clutch?

I just need to know.

And please, let's not refer to Vinatieri and the Spygate Tuck Rule shit of 10+ years ago

I want to know what Tom Brady has done to deserve 10+ years of postseason passes for continuously playing worse football in the postseason than he does in the regular season.

I assume I'll be waiting a long time for an answer to this one.

The final story on Brady will be interesting. Brady for the first half of the career was the clutchest QB in history. The second half of his career... pretty so-so in the clutch. Actually, lots of playoff games where he had a chance late in the game and duffed it. But early in his career, you knew that if you gave Brady the ball in the last 2 minutes to win the game... game over.

I keep talking over and over again about how good game managers are really, really dangerous. It's interesting that as Brady became less of a game manager, he lost the ability to close games the way he used to. Brady had a pretty underdeveloped vertical game early in his career and some considered him a little dink and dunk. Over time, New England became more vertical and now they move at a Chip Kelly pace. To no surprise, their defense isn't nearly the same.

So the question is... which version of Brady is better? Game manager Brady or Chip-Kelly-vertical Brady? I still think good game managers set up good defenses, and improve your ability to close games because your defense makes critical stops late in the game.

[TimBone]

The one thing I take away from this thread is that there should be two MVP awards. One for QB's and one for non QB's, because some fans can't wrap their heads around the fact that regardless of how dominant a player you are, you likely don't affect the team as much as the QB does. Watt has been dominant. Watt has impacted his team in countless ways. He's played out of his mind. But no, he doesn't touch the ball on every snap, and therefore will never deserve MVP in some folks eyes.

[007]

Originally Posted by TimBone

The one thing I take away from this thread is that there should be two MVP awards. One for QB's and one for non QB's, because some fans can't wrap their heads around the fact that regardless of how dominant a player you are, you likely don't affect the team as much as the QB does. Watt has been dominant. Watt has impacted his team in countless ways. He's played out of his mind. But no, he doesn't touch the ball on every snap, and therefore will never deserve MVP in some folks eyes.

They really should just do QB of the year.

[Mile High Mania]

They could do that, but I think it would be like this one in the sense that it's just another award that generates discussions and some heated debates, but deep down - nobody cares much about it.

[007]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

They could do that, but I think it would be like this one in the sense that it's just another award that generates discussions and some heated debates, but deep down - nobody cares much about it.

Until a Chief wins it I sure won't give a crap about it.

Looks like I may not be giving a crap for a long time.