Football NFL MVP - Page 9

Mile High Mania · 12-17-2014, 10:54 AM

Interesting debates on these every year, here's one from ESPN.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12...demarco-murray

Peyton, Rodgers, Brady, Murray, Watt, Luck...

Where would you guys lean? I don't know, part of me tends to lean towards Murray quite honestly. I think Peyton's crazy 2013 year hurts the image of what he's done in 2014, especially when compared against the other QBs that are getting all the MVP talk. Peyton's right there with them.

Aside from all that, I think it's a pretty even race among the QBs in the discussion... I wouldn't give it Watt, I think my vote with be DeMarco.

Mile High Mania · 12-18-2014, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Vereen's been great in the passing game, but lousy running between the tackles
Ridley's been on IR for most of the season.
Blount wasn't playing at all in Pitt, was cut, and made it all the way through waivers.

It's still a pretty miserable division overall. The Bills and Dolphins look deceptively better than they really are.

Hootie · 12-18-2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Vereen's been great in the passing game, but lousy running between the tackles
Ridley's been on IR for most of the season.
Blount wasn't playing at all in Pitt, was cut, and made it all the way through waivers.

oh, what do you know, a Patriots fan trying to tell everyone that Tom Brady is a 1 man team

who woulda guessed

Mile High Mania · 12-18-2014, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Not an argument, at all ... but if you've watched Peyton Manning this year, and I have, there is no argument for him being an MVP over Aaron Rodgers. At all. Not close.

And, I'm not making one... I'm just saying that I don't see the case for Rodgers being vastly superior.

The Packers haven't won a division title yet, they have 4 road losses (SEA, DET, Saints, Bills)... Packers have a losing record on the road.

10 wins include 4 from their division (lost to the only good team). Beat the Jets, Dolphins, Panthers, Eagles, Patriots, Falcons...

Rodgers has 10 TDs vs the Bears.
Rodgers has 3 TDs vs SEA, DET, NOS & Bills - all losses.

You can split this stuff up for and against all these guys, but neither is that much better when you view the body of work, which is why I think none really sets themselves apart in the race.

Just Passin' By · 12-18-2014, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

oh, what do you know, a Patriots fan trying to tell everyone that Tom Brady is a 1 man team

who woulda guessed

Your troll-fu is weak.

I'm someone who's correcting a poster who thought that Brady had Ridley, when Ridley is on IR.

RobBlake · 12-18-2014, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

This just isn't right, man. He's got Ridley, Vereen, Blount and a serviceable offensive line. He's got a pretty good defense. He's got one of the best coaches of all time.. (Well, that's what people say anyway).

Well, I look at it this way. Gronk was injured most of the season and getting back into game shape. Vereen is inconsistent *have him on fantasy lol* Ridle has been injured.. barely got blount a couple weeks ago. The offensive line was very inconsistent the first 1/4 or so of the season *they traded one of their best guys*. They have no names on the outside besides edleman...

FringeNC · 12-18-2014, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

YPC, is that yards per completion? (If it's yards per carry, who gives a damn quite honestly, none of these guys are big rushing QBs)

Again, I am getting it - what I've said is that it's not vastly different between Brady, Rodgers and Manning. I'm also not advocating Manning should win it, honestly it means little to me. I started this for the debate.

QBR - Rodgers 111.2 / Manning 106.4
Completion % - Manning 67.1 / Rodgers 64
YPA - Rodgers 8.38 / Manning 8.03
YPC - Manning 11.97 / Rodgers 8.37

Yards and TDs favor Manning. INTs favor Rodgers. It's honestly splitting hairs to me, but that's cool.

Those numbers can't be right for YPC. Similar completion % and similar YPA can't lead to wildly different YPC. I'm guess Rodgers is 11.37 not 8.37.

Mile High Mania · 12-18-2014, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Those numbers can't be right for YPC. Similar completion % and similar YPA can't lead to wildly different YPC. I'm guess Rodgers is 11.37 not 8.37.

Well, maybe I had a brain fart... couldn't find the stat.

So, Yards Per Completion... you take the total yards passing and divide by the total completions, right?

Whoa! I see what I did, I used a number for the QB just above Rodgers on the grid...

YPC - Rodgers = 13.09 / Manning = 11.97

A whopping 1.12 difference - advantage Rodgers.

Hootie · 12-18-2014, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobBlake

Well, I look at it this way. Gronk was injured most of the season and getting back into game shape. Vereen is inconsistent *have him on fantasy lol* Ridle has been injured.. barely got blount a couple weeks ago. The offensive line was very inconsistent the first 1/4 or so of the season *they traded one of their best guys*. They have no names on the outside besides edleman...

ridiculous

the have a very good defense

and Gronk was fine but they eased him back in ... and that happened like 2 months ago

the Patriots, not just Tom Brady, are a very good team

FringeNC · 12-18-2014, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Well, maybe I had a brain fart... couldn't find the stat.

So, Yards Per Completion... you take the total yards passing and divide by the total completions, right?

Whoa! I see what I did, I used a number for the QB just above Rodgers on the grid...

YPC - Rodgers = 13.09 / Manning = 11.97

A whopping 1.12 difference - advantage Rodgers.

Tough call between those two. Both have a lot of weapons. Denver has played a much tougher schedule but also has a much better defense. Denver has a better O-line.

Given that Manning is also effectively OC, unfortunately I'd have to go with Manning. I think he's simply more valuable to his team than any other player is.

Hootie · 12-18-2014, 12:59 PM

I'm a Manning mark but he's not been Peyton Manning the last 6 weeks or so. Denver has been winning because Denver is a good football team ... not because Peyton Manning is a great QB.

He's been a game manager for about 6 straight weeks now.

MagicHef · 12-18-2014, 01:14 PM

Here are the % of team TDs each QB is responsible for:

Luck: 87.2%
Manning: 77.1%
Rodgers: 76.6%
Brady: 71.1%

% of team first downs each QB is responsible for:

Rodgers: 73.8%
Luck: 71.6%
Brady: 64.3%
Manning: 63.6%

% of team yards each QB is responsible for:

Luck: 78%
Rodgers: 73.1%
Manning: 71.7%
Brady: 70.8%

**TimBone** · 12-18-2014, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

For me its Murray. Hands down. He's singlehandedly dragged the Dallas Cowboys franchise kicking and screaming back to relevancy. If he's able to play normally with the hand, he'll likely surpass Emmit Smith's Cowboys Franchise record for rushing yards in a season.

Without him, Dallas isn't even 8-8 this year.

The fact that the guy broke his hand, and the entire organization was balls out to not rule him out of the next game tells you how important this guy is.

If the guy can draw breath and move forward carrying a football, the Cowboys are fielding DeMarco Murray.

He's my vote.

They're only being that way because they don't have any other "between the tackles" style runners. As stated previously in the thread, he's not being touched until he's already got a good amount of yardage. The MVP of the Cowboys is not Murray, and it's not Romo. It's the five men blocking for them.

If they had any other back that could run between the tackles, they would have no problem sitting Murray to heal his hand.

MagicHef · 12-18-2014, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Here are the % of team TDs each QB is responsible for:

Luck: 87.2%
Manning: 77.1%
Rodgers: 76.6%
Brady: 71.1%

% of team first downs each QB is responsible for:

Rodgers: 73.8%
Luck: 71.6%
Brady: 64.3%
Manning: 63.6%

% of team yards each QB is responsible for:

Luck: 78%
Rodgers: 73.1%
Manning: 71.7%
Brady: 70.8%

Also, here's % of team turnovers that each QB is responsible for (including all fumbles, whether or not they were recovered by the other team):

Brady: 66.7%
Rodgers: 66.7%
Luck: 60.5%
Manning: 60%

MagicHef · 12-18-2014, 01:31 PM

Based on those numbers, I'd say Luck should be MVP. He won't be though, because his play isn't as pretty as Rodgers'.

Mile High Mania · 12-18-2014, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I'm a Manning mark but he's not been Peyton Manning the last 6 or so. Denver has been winning because Denver is a good football team ... not because Peyton Manning is a great QB.

He's been a game manager for about 6 straight weeks now.

Ok, you've been hammering this "6 weeks or so theme" for a while.

Let's go back 6 games:
44 attempts / 340 yds / 5 TD
54 attempts / 389 yds / 1 TD
35 attempts / 257 yds / 4 TD
34 attempts / 179 yds / 2 TD
20 attempts / 173 yds / 0 TD
20 attempts / 223 yds / 1 TD

They've really scaled back and run heavy the last 2 games... he has been statistically un-Manning like the last 3 games, but 6 or so? You're remaking history.

View Poll Results: 2014 MVP
DeMarco Murray	16	13.22%
Aaron Rodgers	50	41.32%
Tom Brady	10	8.26%
Andrew Luck	2	1.65%
Peyton Manning	2	1.65%
J.J. Watt	36	29.75%
other	5	4.13%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

12-17-2014, 10:54 AM
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $3677229	NFL MVP Interesting debates on these every year, here's one from ESPN. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12...demarco-murray Peyton, Rodgers, Brady, Murray, Watt, Luck... Where would you guys lean? I don't know, part of me tends to lean towards Murray quite honestly. I think Peyton's crazy 2013 year hurts the image of what he's done in 2014, especially when compared against the other QBs that are getting all the MVP talk. Peyton's right there with them. Aside from all that, I think it's a pretty even race among the QBs in the discussion... I wouldn't give it Watt, I think my vote with be DeMarco.
Posts: 30,287

12-18-2014, 12:59 PM	#130
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	I'm a Manning mark but he's not been Peyton Manning the last 6 weeks or so. Denver has been winning because Denver is a good football team ... not because Peyton Manning is a great QB. He's been a game manager for about 6 straight weeks now.
Posts: 56,356

12-18-2014, 01:14 PM	#131
MagicHef The Seated Villain Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle Casino cash: $2460247	Here are the % of team TDs each QB is responsible for: Luck: 87.2% Manning: 77.1% Rodgers: 76.6% Brady: 71.1% % of team first downs each QB is responsible for: Rodgers: 73.8% Luck: 71.6% Brady: 64.3% Manning: 63.6% % of team yards each QB is responsible for: Luck: 78% Rodgers: 73.1% Manning: 71.7% Brady: 70.8% __________________ With a sack in 61% of his games, SB MVP Von Miller is the most consistent pass rusher in NFL history.
Posts: 10,537

12-18-2014, 01:31 PM	#134
MagicHef The Seated Villain Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle Casino cash: $2460247	Based on those numbers, I'd say Luck should be MVP. He won't be though, because his play isn't as pretty as Rodgers'. __________________ With a sack in 61% of his games, SB MVP Von Miller is the most consistent pass rusher in NFL history.
Posts: 10,537