The REAL tablet wars are about to start

[DaveNull]

If the Surface can combine the form factor with the functionality of the laptop, why continue screwing around with Apple's consumer product?

Probably because the ability to run Office and Windows isn't the main selling point. People like iOS because its *not* Windows. Unless you're a mid-level IT manager who hates that someone would question the selection of tools that they're mandated to use.

Xcode? WTF is that? I can get Eclipse for free too...not much use if you're writing .NET; most shops that write .NET have an ELA, meaning they will have the appropriate IDE for the job. With the "free" software you can hack your way through it, if you are lucky enough to have someone who knows how to do that, but why bother? You will end up spending more money on the effort in man hours. Same old story: save a few dollars in licenses, spend ten times as much in fumbling through defining a process to make up for not correctly investing your software budget.

You've completely missed my point...or proved it...I can't exactly tell through the fog of your ignorance of how development outside the windows enterprise world works.

The toolkit that you need to develop native OS X and iOS applications is free...no ELA needed. It's also a big reason why there is more innovative software being written for OS X and iOS at this point, unless you're talking about server side stuff.

[HC_Chief]

Originally Posted by DaveNull

Probably because the ability to run Office and Windows isn't the main selling point. People like iOS because its *not* Windows. Unless you're a mid-level IT manager who hates that someone would question the selection of tools that they're mandated to use.

Welcome to the business world.
BYOD is starting to grow, but it is slow in adoption. Surface is hitting at the right time...a device that can truly bridge the gap (Pro). The RT is just a commercial device, like the current tablet techsphere.

Originally Posted by DaveNull

You've completely missed my point...or proved it...I can't exactly tell through the fog of your ignorance of how development outside the windows enterprise world works.

The toolkit that you need to develop native OS X and iOS applications is free...no ELA needed. It's also a big reason why there is more innovative software being written for OS X and iOS at this point, unless you're talking about server side stuff.

You just reiterated my point. If you want to write code for commercial use on a locked ecosystem with severely limited integration in the business world, use the appropriate IDE. As for "more innovative", hehe, I disagree. Unless, of course, style over substance = "innovation"? That brings me back to my statement about self-absorbed hipster kids solipsisticly blogging away in coffee shops about how they're going to change the world...

[Fish]

Originally Posted by HC_Chief

Welcome to the business world.
BYOD is starting to grow, but it is slow in adoption. Surface is hitting at the right time...a device that can truly bridge the gap (Pro). The RT is just a commercial device, like the current tablet techsphere.



You just reiterated my point. If you want to write code for commercial use on a locked ecosystem with severely limited integration in the business world, use the appropriate IDE. As for "more innovative", hehe, I disagree. Unless, of course, style over substance = "innovation"? That brings me back to my statement about self-absorbed hipster kids solipsisticly blogging away in coffee shops about how they're going to change the world...

The ecosystem is changing fast. Over the last 5 years, all the upper level techs in my department have switched to Macs for their main system. Mainly because the majority of the executives at the top have switched to Mac. Supporting both PC and Mac is a requirement now, not a luxury. The Macs run OS X and Windows both, and that versatility makes them much more useful and worth the additional price.

It's so far from the self-absorbed hipster image you have in your mind, that it makes you look a little out of touch. I've introduced hundreds of iPads into our ecosystem over the last few years. And not to snobby hipsters, but shiny suit executives. If you completely shun Apple these days, you're going to significantly limit yourself in the IT field.

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

It's so far from the self-absorbed hipster image you have in your mind, that it makes you look a little out of touch. I've introduced hundreds of iPads into our ecosystem over the last few years. And not to snobby hipsters, but shiny suit executives. If you completely shun Apple these days, you're going to significantly limit yourself in the IT field.

I'm not in IT, and these were my exact thoughts. Do people really still think that only yuppie starbucks drinkers are rocking macs? That's kind of silly.

[kaplin42]

Originally Posted by NewChief

I'm not in IT, and these were my exact thoughts. Do people really still think that only yuppie starbucks drinkers are rocking macs? That's kind of silly.

I am in IT. I completely hate apple as an enterprise solution. I find that it fights everything that we try and do. It's use it their way or not at all, which to me is the bonus of Windows, the versatility.

We have introduced 300+ New iPads 8 months ago. About 1/5 of our teachers have found a viable use for them other than a digital picture frame.

As a school, we want to go to a 1:1 next year for our students. There was a lot of desire to have iPads be that device. But there is just no way that it will work. It is so inconvenient to do anything of meaningful production on an iPad, it's not even funny.


With all that being said, while I will never support the idea of Apple in an enterprise setting, I will support the devices. To do otherwise is career suicide for IT. Like it or not, Apple is becoming more prevelant.

[HC_Chief]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

It's so far from the self-absorbed hipster image you have in your mind, that it makes you look a little out of touch. I've introduced hundreds of iPads into our ecosystem over the last few years. And not to snobby hipsters, but shiny suit executives. If you completely shun Apple these days, you're going to significantly limit yourself in the IT field.

I'm, of course, being facetious. Macs are great consumer tools but they are slllllllllloooooowwwwwww in making any real impact in the workplace. The iPad and iPhone are the two devices that are having the greatest traction. Iphone, because Blackberry is a PITA and Android is not secure. The iPad, due to form factor.

For most business work, you need coroporate communications (e.g. mail, messaging), Excel, Word, and Acrobat. You then have line of business applications that perform various functions. Apple products can, for the most part, connect & participate in the business world, but there is additional configuration that is needed, there is additional cost for the products themselves, and there are compatability hurdles that must be overcome. THis all means additional COST. To business, additional COST is bad. Business exists for profit; if they can do all the things they need to do using a PC laptop at .25 the price point of an Apple solution, you better believe that is what they are going to do.

Apple has been fantastic is marketing their products to the consumer world. Their devices are tailor-made to consumers. You have to modify their behavior & make concessions to make them a business-friendly device (exception being very basic stuff like running a small business; which I have done using a MacBook Pro).

The iPad form factor is nearly perfect. Problem is it's just a big iPod touch. While super cool, and it has untold potential, it is still limited by its focus on being the ultimate consumer tablet device. Kudos to Apple, they achieved that goal.

Business people are also consumers. They love their consumer platforms and want to use them at work; thus the rise in bring your own device (BYOD ) initiatives. The problem is integrating these devices that are not bult for integration, management, and business is a big challenge. Yes, it can be done, but it is not cheap. Again, business exists to make a profit. Yeah, it would be super neat to be able to do all your work on an iPad, but the cost of doing that is unjustifiable for most.

This is where the Surface comes in. It is a business device, running the desktop OS that runs all of the applications businesses already run, can be integrated and administrered like their existing platforms with no additional cost, AND provides the awesome form factor of the iPad. That is a winning proposition. That, of course, is in reference to the Surface Pro. The RT, on the other hand, is simple Microsoft's version of the iPad: a cool form factor for basic consumer needs, e.g. surfing the web, social media, checking web mail, Skype.

The cool thing about Surface is it's not a different OS from the desktop. Apple has OSX and iOS; they are distinct. Surface, the PC, laptop, and Phone all run W8. Consistent experience + integrated functionality + ability to use as both a business and consumer device; I think it's a great idea. Execution on that idea is the key; that's where Microsoft needs to be on their game. Now that the idea is out there, Google, Apple, Amazon, Samsung, and others will try to do the same thing. If they can execute more efficiently, we will all win as consumers. Nothing breeds excellence more than true competition.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

The ecosystem is changing fast. Over the last 5 years, all the upper level techs in my department have switched to Macs for their main system. Mainly because the majority of the executives at the top have switched to Mac. Supporting both PC and Mac is a requirement now, not a luxury. The Macs run OS X and Windows both, and that versatility makes them much more useful and worth the additional price.

It's so far from the self-absorbed hipster image you have in your mind, that it makes you look a little out of touch. I've introduced hundreds of iPads into our ecosystem over the last few years. And not to snobby hipsters, but shiny suit executives. If you completely shun Apple these days, you're going to significantly limit yourself in the IT field.

We have about 25000 iPad 2's in the field. They work great.

[HC_Chief]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

We have about 25000 iPad 2's in the field. They work great.

WOW, that is quite a deployment. Have you guys developed a case study/whitepaper on it? I know of several companies struggling with the concept; guidance and working examples would be beneficial to them.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by HC_Chief

WOW, that is quite a deployment. Have you guys developed a case study/whitepaper on it? I know of several companies struggling with the concept; guidance and working examples would be beneficial to them.

I'm sure there's all kinds of marketing info out there, I can't really go into details without giving up personal info I don't want to give up.

It's pretty basic - Ipad + Afaria + Good for Enterprise.