Interesting question...

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I was thinking...

How does our WRs stack up against the Raiders CBs and how does our CBs stack up against their WRs? Who has the advantage?...

The same with every division foe? How does our WRs stand against the CBs and vice versa of Seattle, Broncos, Chargers, and as mentioned above, the Raiders? Whos got it?

CG

a football topic...its coming soon:D


ps. TEs can be included too and how they match up against our LBs and Ss and vice versa...

and if I see anyone go against Gonzalez (even opposing fans) I want a good explanation why you think your LBs have an edge over this guy...and it better be good:p

[AJKCFAN]

From a WR vs CB stadnpoint, not too good.

Include Gonzalez in the WR vs CB matchup, and the advantage tilts to us...

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Thanks AJ,

I forgot the TEs.

[AJKCFAN]

It does raise the point.

Is Tony Gonzalez the toughest receiver to defend one on one in the entire NFL?

As a TE, no question. I'm talking about Gonzalez vs Moss, Harrison, Bruce, Holt, and all comers.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

AJ,

Good question. Moss would be the only argument, IMO, but the fact that he takes plays off would mean Gonzo has the advantage as a WR, IMO, and I'm not being biased either. TG gets faster every year.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

and also... I've seen every one of those guys you mentioned get shut down in games, but the only time I've seen Tony get shut down is when the Chiefs DON'T throw the ball to him.

[AJKCFAN]

I'm not suggesting Gonzalez is the best receiver in the NFL because he's not.

I am saying he's impossible to defend one on one and if a team is foolish to do so, Gonzalez will make them pay every single time... especially in the red zone, where he is gold.

You might be able to cover a Moss with a Woodson, but Woodson has never been seen covering Gonzalez, now has he?

[AJKCFAN]

I love it that the experts say that the new Chiefs offense will deny Gonzalez the ball. Are they crazy? Gonzalez plays all 16 games and he's catching a minimum of 85 balls and he's a lock for at least 1000 yards and 10 TD's.

I'll make a bold prediction right here. Tony Gonzalez will catch 100 balls this season for the Chiefs and repeat the feat in Chiefs Red in 2002, as long as he is healthy and as long as Trent Green stays healthy.

In this offense, he's going to be even more dangerous than ever before!

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I don't think there is a "best receiver in the NFL" AJ. I'm just talking about coverage. In order to talk about "best" we have to include route running, hands, speed, etc., IMO.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

That is very true, AJ. There is only two things that can stop TG, IMO...they are injuries, and himself, IMO.

[Warrior5]

To answer your original question would almost require a book. <I>On paper,</I> the Chiefs receivers match up well against AFC West secondaries. Conversely, our secondary is suspect right now for a plethora of reasons, but primarily because we don't know what we don't know yet.
The Raiders unquestionably have a stud set of receivers and RBs; the Chiefs' secondary will get burned at times, so the key here is to get to Gannon.
Trying to group Gonzales with WRs at this point is almost like comparing apples and oranges, because a TE does so much more than receive. He must be able to block, feint, pass protect, block downfield, and of course, receive. Moss isn't required to do the same.
But as far as individual receiving skills go, I'll echo what AJKCFAN said. I've seen Gonzales (as I'm sure you have) catch passes thrown behind him while he's on both knees, after he's been interfered with (yellow flags flying all over the place), and with the defender STILL draped all over him. Against the Jags (I think it was two years ago), I watched him catch a flare pass at the same time he took a vicious hit head-on from a Jag defender. Not only did he hang on to the ball; he jumped up, handed the ball to the ref, grabbed the defender by the collar and yelled in his face, "That was a great hit, man!"
Sorry, I digress... I haven't seen a LB yet that could cover Gonzales... I love the guy.

[Luzap]

It's interesting to speculate, but the real question is... will our coaching staff scheme our offense to maximize the talent of the players we have?

It's really not about matching our best receiver against their best CB; it's about creating mismatches and then executing a play that takes maximum advantage of those mismatches.

I was so sick of watching my team fail in this area last year that I am very excited about the new coaching staff. IMO, this could be an area that we excell at ~ if so, watch out for the Chiefs!

Luz
i think we could have a very good year...

[keg in kc]

Cody, I don't think we [b]can[/b] judge our WRs against anyone's secondary at this point.

The only experienced, proven wide receiver we have is Derrick Alexander:[list][*]Dante Hall - had decent numbers in Europe (34 receptions for 462 yards, 13.6 ypc), but has no NFL experience whatsoever as a WR.
[*]Ricky Hall - had good-looking numbers in Europe as #3 WR for Frankfurt this summer (27 receptions for 488 yards, 18.1 ypc), but will he be able to play at that level in the NFL?
[*]Tony Horne - 4 career NFL receptions.
[*]Dave Klemic - rookie.
[*]"Snoop" Minnis - rookie.
[*]J.J. Moses - rookie.
[*]Larry Parker - 3 career NFL receptions.
[*]Mikhael Ricks - 73 career NFL receptions. Our most experienced WR behind DA, but he's been converted to TE.
[*]Geroy Simon - no NFL experience at WR.
[*]Chris Thomas - 32 career NFL receptions.[/list]
How do we gauge these players; how do we judge how they'll do against NFL cornerbacks?

Not really much to work with there, at least in terms of NFL experience. Potential? Maybe. There's definitely some speed there, and maybe one or more of these guys will step up, but I'd venture a guess that this isn't a position that [b]any[/b] NFL team would want to be in heading into training camp.

Can we come out of it smelling like roses? Sure. But that's asking an awful lot from a group of guys with virtually no NFL experience...

Don't take this as a gloom-and-doom "the sky is falling" post; I think the offense will still perform well, I'm just posting what I see as a realist's view of what we have at WR right now...

[tommykat]

Maybe as a female I am biased.......but anyone going up againist Tony Gonzalez is in harms way! The guy knows what he wants and has done what he can to get where he is...He deserves what and where the man is........;)

[hawaiianboy]

Let me take a semi-stab at this one... Seems like most of the KC fan base is enamored with the passing game... but IMHO, the reason we took two off you guys was:

~~You couldn't run the ball:

[b]-55 total yards rushing
-35 total yards rushing[/b]

Most comparisons I've seen here have been to the so called Martzyball offense and the Cowboy offense of Norv/ SD of the early 80's....

* First with all the accusations of Martzy ball being a pass happy offense... the thing to keep in mind is both years, they had about 2000 yards rushing ~ (and before the stat pimps start throwing stat darts at me, I'm guestamating this from memory, I'm too lazy to look up the exact numbers)~.....

IMO the Rams belly flopped last season not because of the injury to Warner or Faulk, but due to the rash of injuries to their offensive line..... In '99 they were hardly a finesse blocking team... they had a big line that mauled people...
They were a pass first team that set up the run by making teams overplay the pass thus leaving only 7 men in the box... Couple this with the fact all their TE's weighed in the 270 lb range ..... Turn that big 6 loose on a running play and you have Faulk in the secondary fairly often....
(Bonus point: name the TE the Rams cut because he was too small to run block, that pulled a Joe Horn and became All Pro the next season for his new team)

** As for the 'Boy comparison... That be a bold statement... IMO, they had the best O-line ever (Tuinei,Newton,Step,Gogan,Williams).. They were maulers!... Those Super Bowl teams ran the most efficient offense I've ever seen.... They ran the ball till you put 8 in the box then let Aikman pick you apart....

So where does KC fit in style to those two models?...:::SHRUG::: You got me... I guess thats the 100,000 cow chip question....

IMO....If you don't improve your run blocking and show some ability to run between the tackles it won't matter what formations you use against us... I'm fairly certain Woodson/Allen/James can match up well vs. your 3 WR sets, especially since we can play a safety in a pass help mode..... I'm pretty sure coordinators are going to throw a load of blitzes Greens way, just as they did when he was with the Skins...

As for Gonzo, if we play Biekart on him.... he'll put up huge numbers again... Bieks lack of foot speed and coverage skills showed all year against quality TE's... Which hopefully leads the staff decide to not play TE's with slow footed MLB's .....and which hopefully is the very reason we signed Ryan Phillips to play the Strong side (over the TE)....
He's bigger (6'4 255) than the scrubeenie we had there last year....I'd jam Tony on the line then turn him over to the SS with Phillips playing zone ....

Gonzo will no doubt, get his catches, but generally, TE's just don't beat you by themselves..... Get the guy a running game and he'd be a b1tch to handle... but then the pretty boy would actually have to get his paws dirty and (GASP!)learn to run block...


As for Crockett and ??? vs Brown, Rice and Porter??

Hahaha....

I do like Bartee alot... as a Free Safety.... If'n I was the coach stepping into Willie Shaws huge shoes.... I may take a look at playing Woods at corner and moving Bartee to FS.... If I remember correctly, Woods played some corner at Memphis....