*** Official Chicago White Sox @ Kansas City Royals Game Thread (5/20) ***

[alnorth]

Final	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	R	H	E
CWS (23-24)	1	0	0	0	3	0	0	3	0	7	12	0
KC (22-23)	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	3	1	6	10	0

Win, (4-0) Andre Rienzo 6IP 2R 2ER 2BB 8K
Hold, (3) Jake Petricka 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 1K
Scott Downs ⅓IP 2R 2ER 1BB 0K
Frank Francisco 0IP 1R 1ER 1BB 0K
Hold, (4) Zach Putnam ⅔IP 0R 0ER 0BB 0K
Save, (1) Ronald Belisario 1IP 1R 1ER 0BB 1K

VS.



Loss, (2-4) Yordano Ventura 6IP 4R 4ER 0BB 3K 1HR
Tim Collins 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 0K
Aaron Crow ⅓IP 3R 3ER 0BB 0K 1HR
Casey Coleman 1⅔IP 0R 0ER 0BB 0K

Home Runs

CWS

Tyler Flowers, (3) - Top 5th solo shot to left
Adam Dunn, (7) - Top 8th 3-run blast to dead center

KC

Are you kidding?

AL Central

Final: DET 2, CLE 6
Final: MIN 5, SD 3

Starting Lineups

CWS

1. Adam Eaton, CF
2. Gordon Beckham, 2B
3. Conor Gillaspie, 3B
4. Dayan Viciedo, RF
4. Moises Sierra, RF
5. Adam Dunn, 1B
6. Alexei Ramirez, SS
7. Paul Konerko, DH
8. Alejandro De Aza, LF
9. Tyler Flowers, C

KC

1. Norichika Aoki, RF
2. Alcides Escobar, SS
3. Eric Hosmer, 1B
4. Billy Butler, DH
5. Alex Gordon, LF
5. Jarrod Dyson, pr
6. Lorenzo Cain, CF
7. Danny Valencia, 3B
8. Pedro Ciriaco, 2B
9. Brett Hayes, C
9. Mike Moustakas, ph
9. Francisco Pena, C
Major League Debut

[Why Not?]

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

Moose won't bat over .200

That's a given. The question is can he hit over .100?

[Mother****erJones]

Originally Posted by Al Bundy

Belly just laughing it off about "they live and die by the home run." Good god.

What?

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by bsroyals54

At least we aren't the Chicago Cubs, gotta look at the positive side of things.

The Cubs have been to the Playoffs 5 times since we were last there and 3 times in this Century. I think they are thanking God that they aren't the Royals.....

[ChiTown]

For some perspective.....

In the first 17 years of this Franchise, the Royals went to post-season 7 times, 2 of which included WS appearances and 1 World Championship. In the next 28 years (and counting), they haven't done shit. That is absolutely pathetic no matter how you run the math. The Chiefs love being in the same town as the R's. Their Playoff wins in '94 reach more of our younger fans than the '85 series championship. It's just a sad, pathetic Franchise that I wish I could quit, but I can't. I'm stuck with one franchise that can't get to the playoffs and one that can't win a Playoff game. FML

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by ChiTown

The Cubs have been to the Playoffs 5 times since we were last there and 3 times in this Century. I think they are thanking God that they aren't the Royals.....

They also have one of the best executives in baseball at the helm.

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

They also have one of the best executives in baseball at the helm.

Yeah, it wouldn't suck to have Theo Epstein at the helm of the Royals.

[duncan_idaho]

General thoughts:

1) There is a fundamental softness to this team, and it starts at the top. From players not being held accountable and being coddled instead, to being overly sensitive to the media, to not understanding why fans aren't coming out in droves, it's clear this team worries about the wrong things at the wrong times.

2) This creates a cycle. Most fans - especially the die-hards - are smart enough to realize when the goalposts are being moved and when someone is saying something stupid.

For these reasons, Yost (especially) and Moore frequently show their asses when speaking in public. Whether it's Yost doggedly defending his track record with young players (and how he's never been wrong) or Moore moving the goalposts on any number of things (Davis being the key to the trade, 1000 ABs-1500 ABs-"Do teammates want him here", 6-7 years to win vs 8-10. etc) that type of stuff DOES have an effect on fan support.

3) This team lacks so much toughness, it isn't funny. Just not a mentally tough group of hitters (I think Shields has instilled some of that in the pitching staff, at least with Ventura). And that's a development issue (how you treat players mentally as they are coming up).

4) I have no faith Dayton Moore or this management team can get things done. In fact, it looks to me like the old-school cronies Moore put in charge of minor league pitching and hitting development might have missed the boat with a huge collection of minor league talent.

When you see a group that continually does things that weaken the team and roster for the matter of proving a point (Not demoting Moose because they apparently are so tied to him and Yost has never been wrong, over-using Dyson because they sacrificed a lot of roster flex to keep him, etc), how can you continue to believe in it?

I can't. And I'm about the most positive Royals fan around.

[Deberg_1990]

Wow, you know it's bad when they have finally lost Duncan.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

General thoughts:

1) There is a fundamental softness to this team, and it starts at the top. From players not being held accountable and being coddled instead, to being overly sensitive to the media, to not understanding why fans aren't coming out in droves, it's clear this team worries about the wrong things at the wrong times.

2) This creates a cycle. Most fans - especially the die-hards - are smart enough to realize when the goalposts are being moved and when someone is saying something stupid.

For these reasons, Yost (especially) and Moore frequently show their asses when speaking in public. Whether it's Yost doggedly defending his track record with young players (and how he's never been wrong) or Moore moving the goalposts on any number of things (Davis being the key to the trade, 1000 ABs-1500 ABs-"Do teammates want him here", 6-7 years to win vs 8-10. etc) that type of stuff DOES have an effect on fan support.

3) This team lacks so much toughness, it isn't funny. Just not a mentally tough group of hitters (I think Shields has instilled some of that in the pitching staff, at least with Ventura). And that's a development issue (how you treat players mentally as they are coming up).

4) I have no faith Dayton Moore or this management team can get things done. In fact, it looks to me like the old-school cronies Moore put in charge of minor league pitching and hitting development might have missed the boat with a huge collection of minor league talent.

When you see a group that continually does things that weaken the team and roster for the matter of proving a point (Not demoting Moose because they apparently are so tied to him and Yost has never been wrong, over-using Dyson because they sacrificed a lot of roster flex to keep him, etc), how can you continue to believe in it?

I can't. And I'm about the most positive Royals fan around.

I wish that Moose and Butler had half the "pop" of this post.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I wish that Moose and Butler had half the "pop" of this post.

The good news is that when I lose faith, good things have tended to happen of late.

I had no faith Missouri would win more than 6-7 games last year.

I had no faith the Chiefs would make the playoffs.

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

General thoughts:

1) There is a fundamental softness to this team, and it starts at the top. From players not being held accountable and being coddled instead, to being overly sensitive to the media, to not understanding why fans aren't coming out in droves, it's clear this team worries about the wrong things at the wrong times.

2) This creates a cycle. Most fans - especially the die-hards - are smart enough to realize when the goalposts are being moved and when someone is saying something stupid.

For these reasons, Yost (especially) and Moore frequently show their asses when speaking in public. Whether it's Yost doggedly defending his track record with young players (and how he's never been wrong) or Moore moving the goalposts on any number of things (Davis being the key to the trade, 1000 ABs-1500 ABs-"Do teammates want him here", 6-7 years to win vs 8-10. etc) that type of stuff DOES have an effect on fan support.

3) This team lacks so much toughness, it isn't funny. Just not a mentally tough group of hitters (I think Shields has instilled some of that in the pitching staff, at least with Ventura). And that's a development issue (how you treat players mentally as they are coming up).

4) I have no faith Dayton Moore or this management team can get things done. In fact, it looks to me like the old-school cronies Moore put in charge of minor league pitching and hitting development might have missed the boat with a huge collection of minor league talent.

When you see a group that continually does things that weaken the team and roster for the matter of proving a point (Not demoting Moose because they apparently are so tied to him and Yost has never been wrong, over-using Dyson because they sacrificed a lot of roster flex to keep him, etc), how can you continue to believe in it?

I can't. And I'm about the most positive Royals fan around.

Thanks, that just about did it for me. I am now going to slit my wrist.

Seriously, and unfortunately, great post. If you look at my post about the R's Playoff History - essentially a ten year period, 76-85. Those teams were Managed by no-nonsense guys (Whitey Herzog and Dick Howser), and tough, diligent GM's (Joe Burke and John Schuerholz). They also had an owner that gave a damn about the team and the City (Mr. K).

Attitude is driven from the top down. To have a competitive Franchise in KC, you have to be tough enough to do all the little things right. As a Manager, you have to have a proper balance of tough love and kinship with your players. They got to know you have their backs, but they also have to know that there are expectations to met, and TEAM comes before player. Period. Ned seems more content to coddle his guys and his lineup. He's more concerned that "Vargy" gets a shot at the win, vs KNOWING that he's bleeding out and shouldn't be pitching to the next right-handed power bat of the CWS. TEAM before player, Ned. You should know this.

The Pres/GM has to be smart and stay the course. Dayton has no problem staying the course, as long as his course gets to weave in and out of the truth. The truth is that they have been (for the most part) incapable of developing a ML lineup that is capable of producing runs. This is either due to the fact that our Minor League system and instruction is awful, or we are drafting and pursuing the wrong types of players. My bet is on the former. The total number of AB's, their ability to be LIKED by their teammates, etc, etc is all BS. You can either produce at the MLB level, or you can not. Once it is obvious, you have to cut bait - no matter whether it's "your guy(s)" or not. DM's inability to do this will be his ultimate undoing.

The Players? Well, as I mentioned above, this is top driven. They are a product of their environment. It's no wonder that our best leaders in the past have been guys that have come from outside of the Organization (Ie. Shields). The more I hear about Hosmer, Dyson and Moose, the more I realize how detrimental their attitudes are to the Clubhouse. In general, this all makes me very sad.

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

General thoughts:

1) There is a fundamental softness to this team, and it starts at the top. From players not being held accountable and being coddled instead, to being overly sensitive to the media, to not understanding why fans aren't coming out in droves, it's clear this team worries about the wrong things at the wrong times.

2) This creates a cycle. Most fans - especially the die-hards - are smart enough to realize when the goalposts are being moved and when someone is saying something stupid.

For these reasons, Yost (especially) and Moore frequently show their asses when speaking in public. Whether it's Yost doggedly defending his track record with young players (and how he's never been wrong) or Moore moving the goalposts on any number of things (Davis being the key to the trade, 1000 ABs-1500 ABs-"Do teammates want him here", 6-7 years to win vs 8-10. etc) that type of stuff DOES have an effect on fan support.

3) This team lacks so much toughness, it isn't funny. Just not a mentally tough group of hitters (I think Shields has instilled some of that in the pitching staff, at least with Ventura). And that's a development issue (how you treat players mentally as they are coming up).

4) I have no faith Dayton Moore or this management team can get things done. In fact, it looks to me like the old-school cronies Moore put in charge of minor league pitching and hitting development might have missed the boat with a huge collection of minor league talent.

When you see a group that continually does things that weaken the team and roster for the matter of proving a point (Not demoting Moose because they apparently are so tied to him and Yost has never been wrong, over-using Dyson because they sacrificed a lot of roster flex to keep him, etc), how can you continue to believe in it?

I can't. And I'm about the most positive Royals fan around.

Couldn't agree more.

I have zero faith that this management can sustain the 2013 success, let alone take it to the next level (90+ wins). Better than Baird does not equal good enough.

The arrogance exhibited by this franchise following last year is really off-putting, both in it its minimal standards and how it's supposed to validate everything DM has done before and after. This franchise is run like a Little League team, where everybody gets ice cream for trying hard. It's downright bizarre how management becomes so personally invested in players like Davies and Francoeur and Getz and Moustakas, giving them more chances to fail than probably any other team would.

Accountability has to come from the very top, from the Glasses, in holding DM to a higher standard, which forces him to hold everyone else to the same standard.

I could say more, but I'm already rambling. It's just so frustrating. Yes, it's better to be .500 than losing 100 games, applause, applause, but that's not good enough!

[Ceej]

Try to have zero expectations next year before the season starts, Duncan.

[siberian khatru]

This team's whole attitude toward offense, like only the cool kids hit home runs, and we're going to sit in the back of the class and outsmart everyone by stringing together 12 singles every night, is another thing that just drives me nuts.

[siberian khatru]

This was posted on Royalboard.com by The DH:

Mission 2012, Our Time, The Process, Feels like winning the World Series, Greatest Farm System Of All Time, The Trade, we're young, be patient, pitching is the currency of baseball, instant gratification fans, we need more homeruns!, homeruns are rally killers!, only way is through the draft, largest team payroll ever, stadium renovations, All-Star game, Yuni, TPJ, Moustakas, Kendall, Jacobs, Frenchy, Hillman, Gloady, Bloomy, Miggy on roids, Kyle Davies, Luke Hochevar, Grampa Bob, Uncle Rex, John Buck, Buck Nights, Slugger hot dog to the eye, Slugger porn, Cactus League champions, 30 years in the game, Yosted, because Royals, no backup shortstop, 13 pitchers , 5 OFers and a full time DH, Meche retirement rebate, Yuni in the 2 spot, Getzie in the 2 spot, Esky in the 2 spot, 3b tree, 4-22 May, Brett in the dugout, White with the T-Bonz, David Glass in seclusion...

"We didn't start the fire..."