The Official "Lost" the series discussion

[Deberg_1990]

I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I have the hindsight of watching most of the finale and thus knowing that, by the end, the show intended to have a purely character-driven payoff. I will be evaluating the show on two accounts: 1.) How good of a character drama is it (and how does including several potentially-maddening elements of sci-fi and fantasy benefit or detract from the characters) and 2.) Forget the intentions to be a character drama; how does this show really feel?

I think that's fine criteria. However, I'd personally value 2 over 1. The emotional impact is always the most important element of "art" to me. Regarless of the emotion.

But, Buck is dead on. The show IS character. I imagine you'll give the show an over A in that catagory.

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I think 'mattered' isn't the proper standard. What those mysteries were were the elements of intrigue that drew us in and captured our imagination. The promise of getting answers kept us glued to the minutiae of each and every episode.
It's like you see on Amazon a book that promises, SWEARS, to give you definitive answers about Bigfoot, Nessie, the JFK assassination, the origin of the pyramids, and the popularity of Dancing with the Stars. And when it comes in the mail it's a tract for the Jehovah's witnesses. The authors could point out that all that 'matters' is your eternal salvation, but that doesn't make the bait and switch any less a bummer.

Do you really consider the finale a "bait and switch"?

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Walt was certaintly important to them at one time. He should have been in the room. They could have brought him back as a man to the church. That wouldn't have mattered he was no longer a boy.

Agreed.

There must be something more to it in the mind's of the creators. The idea that these people needed each other, that the crash was the most pivotal moment in their lives could be a clue. Maybe they're trying to tell us that there was something that happened later in Walt's life that was as pivotal to him as the crash was to them. But, again, if that's the case... what is that? I'd like to see some of that stuff.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I get your point (and I don't really believe in that theory anyway)... the show is over at that point, and hell, I went back to hulu to see the credits because they always put a commercial at the end, so I just skip them. I never would have thought of it as being a transition though... if anything, they should have shown a few shots that were obviously how they left the island.

That could have ben interesting, actually. Good call.

But I didn't mind the wreckage. To me it was a more sublte (and classy?) way to remind us where we started. Another option (that would have been essencially the same in my book) would have been to show candid photos of the actors, crew and directors on set during filming. But that's almost too cheesy. The wreckage works.

[Buck]

The only 2 things that I wanted explained that weren't was what was Walts Special power and why did the Others want to use him. And secondly I wanted to know about the fertility issues.
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[teedubya]

THE ABC producers ****ed up by having the actor who played Walt, start the show at age 12 and be playing an 8 year old. 6 years into the show, you have a 18 year old kid, who should really be about 11, now.

They should have cast an 8 year old. or a 7 year old. Then Walt would have stayed on teh show. They had to get rid of him, resolution or not.

[teedubya]

Originally Posted by Buck

The only 2 things that I wanted explained that weren't was what was Walts Special power and why did the Others want to use him. And secondly I wanted to know about the fertility issues.
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IMO, you can't create a child... in a "purgatory" type place... one can be born there, but not procreated there... and if it is procreated there, it can't be born there... or something.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by teedubya

IMO, you can't create a child... in a "purgatory" type place... one can be born there, but not procreated there... and if it is procreated there, it can't be born there... or something.

The island wasn't purgatory.
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[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Buck

The only 2 things that I wanted explained that weren't was what was Walts Special power and why did the Others want to use him. And secondly I wanted to know about the fertility issues.
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Fair enough.

I think there are clues that can really help us try to understand Walt's story, but ultimately it's unclear. Especially in terms of intentions. My guess, however, is that it had everything to do with protecting the island and eliminating the Smoke Monster.

The fertility issues seem much clearer to me. They showed us that, up until 'The Incident', children could be (and were) concieved and born on island. Everything changed after The Incident. To me it's pretty clear that The Incident caused the fertility issues.

Now, why Ben was so hellbent on fixing the problem, and Richard didn't really seem to care is interesting. We'll, again, never know the motives. But I think that's okay. In real life it's hard to know why people do the things they do.

I'd say Walt is a big hanging '?' with some hints and clues surrounding. But the fertility issues, to me, are a closed case.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

Do you really consider the finale a "bait and switch"?

Let me put it this way, yes it was bait and switch, but somehow I ended up at a Kingdom Hall last Sunday morning.

That is to say, as it stands alone, as an ending to the story of the characters we've come to know, it was quite good. As the conclusion of what the show appeared to be with all these machinations and schemes and plots and counterplots and tidbits and freezeframes etc. ad infinitum, it's disappointing that all of that was for naught.

I don't think I'm alone, as there seems to be a strong inclination out there to grade the finale twice, once as a standalone, and again as a conclusion.

Like I said, 'mattered' isn't the standard, those unexplained mysteries were the seedlings of what promised ['showed' promise, not 'we the creators' promise] to be intriguing storytelling. And it's hard to separate how much of what drew us in as a massive rapt audience was those mysteries and how much was the story of a handful of people in need of spiritual growth.

I know for myself, I cared relatively little about the love stories and the triangles and the temper tantums and the personality quirks in comparison to the mysteries surrounding them, and regarded them as an indulgence for a good bit of the ride.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

Fair enough.

I think there are clues that can really help us try to understand Walt's story, but ultimately it's unclear. Especially in terms of intentions. My guess, however, is that it had everything to do with protecting the island and eliminating the Smoke Monster.

The fertility issues seem much clearer to me. They showed us that, up until 'The Incident', children could be (and were) concieved and born on island. Everything changed after The Incident. To me it's pretty clear that The Incident caused the fertility issues.

Now, why Ben was so hellbent on fixing the problem, and Richard didn't really seem to care is interesting. We'll, again, never know the motives. But I think that's okay. In real life it's hard to know why people do the things they do.

I'd say Walt is a big hanging '?' with some hints and clues surrounding. But the fertility issues, to me, are a closed case.

I don't get how the bomb going off caused fertility issues. Oh yeah actually 1 more thing that I wanted explained, but wasn't was the huge Egyptian presence. I just think the island is really old and goes back to egyptian times, but that doesn't explain the statue (well sorta maybe) or the countdown clock. That was clearly made in the 1970s.
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[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Let me put it this way, yes it was bait and switch, but somehow I ended up at a Kingdom Hall last Sunday morning.

That is to say, as it stands alone, as an ending to the story of the characters we've come to know, it was quite good. As the conclusion of what the show appeared to be with all these machinations and schemes and plots and counterplots and tidbits and freezeframes etc. ad infinitum, it's disappointing that all of that was for naught.

I don't think I'm alone, as there seems to be a strong inclination out there to grade the finale twice, once as a standalone, and again as a conclusion.

Like I said, 'mattered' isn't the standard, those unexplained mysteries were the seedlings of what promised ['showed' promise, not 'we the creators' promise] to be intriguing storytelling. And it's hard to separate how much of what drew us in as a massive rapt audience was those mysteries and how much was the story of a handful of people in need of spiritual growth.

I know for myself, I cared relatively little about the love stories and the triangles and the temper tantums and the personality quirks in comparison to the mysteries surrounding them, and regarded them as an indulgence for a good bit of the ride.

Agree 100%. Nobody kept tuning in from week to week because of the love stories and the backstorys. I mean, those were well done, but it was the mysterys and puzzles that kept everyone coming back for more.

Frankly i stopped watching on a regular basis after the 3rd season when i realize there was no way they were ever going to be able to wrap up the gargantuan puzzles effectively. Maybe they never intended to all along??

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Agree 100%. Nobody kept tuning in from week to week because of the love stories and the backstorys. I mean, those were well done, but it was the mysterys and puzzles that kept everyone coming back for more.

Frankly i stopped watching on a regular basis after the 3rd season when i realize there was no way they were ever going to be able to wrap up the gargantuan puzzles effectively. Maybe they never intended to all along??

In the interest of overclarity, another way of putting it is, a HUGE draw of this show was the central question 'how are they going to pull all of this off and resolve these myriad mysteries' and the response was 'they aren't, they're going to give us another story they hope you like just as much and tell you that what drew you in didn't 'matter.''

[Buck]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

In the interest of overclarity, another way of putting it is, a HUGE draw of this show was the central question 'how are they going to pull all of this off and resolve these myriad mysteries' and the response was 'they aren't, they're going to give us another story they hope you like just as much and tell you that what drew you in didn't 'matter.''

It's only the few flaws that people like to point out. Think of all the mysteries they did explain. Far more than they didn't.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Let me put it this way, yes it was bait and switch, but somehow I ended up at a Kingdom Hall last Sunday morning.

That is to say, as it stands alone, as an ending to the story of the characters we've come to know, it was quite good. As the conclusion of what the show appeared to be with all these machinations and schemes and plots and counterplots and tidbits and freezeframes etc. ad infinitum, it's disappointing that all of that was for naught.

I don't think I'm alone, as there seems to be a strong inclination out there to grade the finale twice, once as a standalone, and again as a conclusion.

Like I said, 'mattered' isn't the standard, those unexplained mysteries were the seedlings of what promised ['showed' promise, not 'we the creators' promise] to be intriguing storytelling. And it's hard to separate how much of what drew us in as a massive rapt audience was those mysteries and how much was the story of a handful of people in need of spiritual growth.

I know for myself, I cared relatively little about the love stories and the triangles and the temper tantums and the personality quirks in comparison to the mysteries surrounding them, and regarded them as an indulgence for a good bit of the ride.

Perfect. I was there for the mysteries, which in the end were largely left unresolved. That said, the conclusion was good/satisfying on it's own terms even if it didn't satisfy the potential that made me a fan of the show in the first place. I never really cared whether Kate was going to end up with Jack or Sawyer. I cared about who built the four toed statue, why people who were crippled could walk on the island, and what secrets Ben, Whitmore, and Eloise knew that the audience didn't.

[Huffmeister]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Walt was certaintly important to them at one time. He should have been in the room. They could have brought him back as a man to the church. That wouldn't have mattered he was no longer a boy.

But what if Walt didn't need help to move on? What if his being "special" allowed him to live knowing that there was something beyond this life, and therefore was not "lost", like the other characters were? Or, what if he and Michael made their own purgatory, where Walt helps his father to find the way to the light?

When Christian told Jack that they had created "this place" together, to help each other, I took it to mean that it was just one of a possibly infinite amount of "purgatories" that people create together when they die. So maybe Walt & Michael had their own purgatory, and Eko and Yemi had another, and Jacob and MIB had another, and Arntz, Frogurt, Nikki and Paulo had another, and Keamy and Mikhail had another, and on and on and on. Think 'multiverses'.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by Cankerskull

But what if Walt didn't need help to move on? What if his being "special" allowed him to live knowing that there was something beyond this life, and therefore was not "lost", like the other characters were? Or, what if he and Michael made their own purgatory, where Walt helps his father to find the way to the light?

When Christian told Jack that they had created "this place" together, to help each other, I took it to mean that it was just one of a possibly infinite amount of "purgatories" that people create together when they die. So maybe Walt & Michael had their own purgatory, and Eko and Yemi had another, and Jacob and MIB had another, and Arntz, Frogurt, Nikki and Paulo had another, and Keamy and Mikhail had another, and on and on and on. Think 'multiverses'.

Who cares if they had their own purgatory. This whole purgatory crap came about in season 6. Walt was a focal point of the show that got people hooked in the first place. He had special powers. Walt was the cliff hanger of season 1 when the others show up in a boat, grab him, shoot and blow up the rest of the raftees. Season 2 was in large part about rescuing Walt and Ben using Michael to kill off a bunch of "new" characters.

As others have said, who cares about the love triangles. The mysteries were what drove the show. Character development wasn't great. Sorry, but they had to continually introduce new characters to make the old ones interesting. Ben was only supposed to be in a few episodes originally. And lets not forget the lame backstories - John Locke living on some hippie commune, and Jack getting some tattoo and banging some Thai hooker. Wow, that's deep.