Ocala Florida fines business owner for flying "Dont Tread on Me" flag

[Deberg_1990]

A Florida small business owner said Monday the city of Ocala has threatened to fine him if he does not immediately take down a Gadsden flag currently displayed outside his store.

Gear Barrel owner Keith Greenberg told TheBlaze that the city said he was permitted to fly the American flag outside his store, but prohibited from displaying anything else outside his business which specializes in selling knives.

“This is a shock,” he said. “Honestly, I feel like this is Russia. I’ve been around the world … this is what you expect in really closed countries where there is no freedom of expression. Not here — so it’s shocking.”

“This is a shock. Honestly, I feel like this is Russia.”
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The flying of the flag appears to be prohibited under the city code of ordinance, section 110-131.

Greenberg told TheBlaze he faces being fined up to $250-$500 per day if he does not comply. He said the potential fines would be devastating to his young small business, which he opened in May.

“The city of Ocala is demanding I take this down,” he told TheBlaze.


Greenberg posted a video to YouTube earlier this month trying to raise awareness of the move being made by the city.

“We find ourselves in a sad place where local municipalities are stepping all over people’s freedom with the signing of a pen,” he said.

Greenberg told TheBlaze he was even more perplexed by the city’s demands because he has spotted other flags being flown at nearby establishments.

Photographs forwarded to TheBlaze show an Ocala car dealership flying the Mexican flag and an Irish bar displaying the Irish flag. It was not clear whether or not the city had also issued similar notices to the other businesses.


The city’s code enforcement office could not immediately be reached Monday night for comment by TheBlaze.

The small business owner said his next move will be to address the city council at their next meeting.


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...his-is-russia/

[kysirsoze]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Cities have rules about signage and shit outside of businesses? Must be the first of its type in the nation!

Next thing, they'll be making rules about how some businesses can only be located in certain "zones" in the city other businesses need to be located in other "zones."

Only allowing people to fly American flags? Flying a flag (which in this case is patriotic anyway, not that it should matter) isn't protected free speech? The anti-outrage crowd is every bit as crazy as the pro-outrage crowd.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Cities have rules about signage and shit outside of businesses? Must be the first of its type in the nation!

Next thing, they'll be making rules about how some businesses can only be located in certain "zones" in the city other businesses need to be located in other "zones."

The one valid point he had was about other establishments not being cited for having Irish, Mexican, whatever flags. If true, he is being singled out via selective enforcement.

[kysirsoze]

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco

See, that's your problem right there, Mr Greenberg. Your next move is to take down the flag. Your next move after taking down the flag is to address the city council at their next meeting.

That's what I would do, but it seems to me he is exercising his constitutional rights. I would rather just get the ordinance done away with quietly rather than make a big todo, but he certainly shouldn't ultimately be responsible for those fines. (Assuming he's not misrepresenting the nature of the violation)

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by kysirsoze

That's what I would do, but it seems to me he is exercising his constitutional rights. I would rather just get the ordinance done away with quietly rather than make a big todo, but he certainly shouldn't ultimately be responsible for those fines. (Assuming he's not misrepresenting the nature of the violation)

Question about this constitutional right to free speech...

Do you think that means that we simply get to say whatever we want, or do you think it means that we get to say whatever we want and also to do so whenever we want, wherever we want?

[BucEyedPea]

And people have been calling Putin a fascist?

[kysirsoze]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Question about this constitutional right to free speech...

Do you think that means that we simply get to say whatever we want, or do you think it means that we get to say whatever we want and also to do so whenever we want, wherever we want?

Of course there are reasonable restrictions. I fail to see how restricting the flying of a flag qualifies. It's not like he's planting the thing in other people's lawns.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

And people have been calling Putin a fascist?

Good point. Threatening a fine over flying a flag is far more extreme than anything Putin has ever done.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

The one valid point he had was about other establishments not being cited for having Irish, Mexican, whatever flags. If true, he is being singled out via selective enforcement.

It said it wasn't clear if the other places had received notices.

Maybe official national flags are allowed, I don't know.
I'll bet that even in regard to a US flag, there are rules about the size and whatnot.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by kysirsoze

Of course there are reasonable restrictions. I fail to see how restricting the flying of a flag qualifies. It's not like he's planting the thing in other people's lawns.

This isn't a free speech issue if it applies to all flags rather than just political ones.

It's illegal for me to build a fence across my sidewalk. Freedom of speech doesn't give me the right to build a fence across my sidewalk as long as I write a political message on it.

Having this flag up isn't illegal because of what it says. It's illegal because it's a flag, and there is a law against having flags.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

It said it wasn't clear if the other places had received notices.

Maybe official national flags are allowed, I don't know.
I'll bet that even in regard to a US flag, there are rules about the size and whatnot.

Hence the "if true" disclaimer in my post...

[kysirsoze]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

This isn't a free speech issue if it applies to all flags rather than just political ones.

It's illegal for me to build a fence across my sidewalk. Freedom of speech doesn't give me the right to build a fence across my sidewalk as long as I write a political message on it.

Having this flag up isn't illegal because of what it says. It's illegal because it's a flag, and there is a law against having flags.

I suppose, but fences aren't inherently vehicles for expression. Flags are. Also, they allow American flags. So in your example the fence would be legal if it had stars and stripes on it.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by kysirsoze

That's what I would do, but it seems to me he is exercising his constitutional rights. I would rather just get the ordinance done away with quietly rather than make a big todo, but he certainly shouldn't ultimately be responsible for those fines. (Assuming he's not misrepresenting the nature of the violation)

Him flying this flag is no different than putting up a sign or something, and there are rules regarding signage (size, content, etc.) in probably every city in the country. I doubt these city ordinances have been deemed unconstitutional.

[ClevelandBronco]

Quite frankly, despite the fact that the Gadsden flag is an especially political flag that screams free speech, I suspect that his motives for flying it are somewhat advertising related rather than purely political. Of course, only he would really know whether my suspicion is true.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Good point. Threatening a fine over flying a flag is far more extreme than anything Putin has ever done.

That wasn't the comparison I was making. Just that some were calling Putin a fascist. You do know what the word means, right? I am talking about controls on speech. You don't seem to have a problem with the man in the article saying he feels like this is Russia, now do you.

[kysirsoze]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Him flying this flag is no different than putting up a sign or something, and there are rules regarding signage (size, content, etc.) in probably every city in the country. I doubt these city ordinances have been deemed unconstitutional.

It's hard to say without knowing the language of the ordinance. If it is as he says, and only official American flags are allowed, then that's allowing a particular form of political expression and not another.

Again, I think he should just protest to the city and get it handled that way. Still, I think I understand the source of the outrage, if not the degree.