Chiefs How much have we improved on paper? - Page 10

**BossChief** · 05-03-2016, 10:26 AM

Well, the draft and free agency are in the rear view mirror and I think it's time to sit down and look where we have improved and where we might have taken a step back in terms of this roster going into 2016.

I'm gonna try to look at the guys we lost and how they were replaced as the "measuring stick".

First off, let's start with RT.

Out - Donald Stephenson left for an opportunity elsewhere and got paid handsomely in FA at 5m per. IMO the guy was trash outside of maybe a handful of games during his time in KC and I wouldn't have given him more than vet min.

In - Mitchell Schwartz has graded out as one of the premier talents at RT in the NFL the last 2 seasons and has shown the ability to stalemate elite pass rushers like Von Miller.

This is a HUGE upgrade and should help not only Alex Smith and the RBs, but his ability to work without a ton of help on the edge should help the playcalling utilize Travis Kelce even more in the passing game.

Next position I'll look at is LG.

Out - Losing Jeff Allen (our best OL last year, when healthy) hurts on paper...but the guy is injury prone and got double what anyone thought he would get in FA. 7m per is just stupid money. The guy solidified the OL when he was out there and helped open holes in the run game and was solid as a pass protector...again, when he was healthy.

In - Parker Ehringer is the pick in this draft that got the most "huh?" "Who?" And "what?" Responses from fans, but the scouts seem to be in love with this kid similarly to how they felt about Morse last year...so I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt as the Morse pick was responded to with similar responses. The kid is versatile as having played both tackle spots and also guard. I'm excited to see him step into a situation where he has quality guys on either side of him and is able to use his nastiness to open holes and keep Alex clean.

This is probably a downgrade, but the Morse selection makes me put this as a "wait and see"

Next up is DE

Out - Mike Devito - I was a fan of Devito from the moment we signed him because he's a lunch pail player and was a solid defender, but was also missing a lot of time to injuries at that point of his career and didn't offer much in terms of a pass rush.

In - Chris Jones - a prospect that has been labeled by advanced stat sites as "the steal of the draft" ....this kids tape is fun to watch when he's giving his all because it's like a video game with a cheat code enabled. It's very rare for a kid to face top level competition for BIGTIME schools and be flat out dominant. Jones can be seen literally throwing OL to the side on the way to the ball and is just a monster sized person. Very excited to see him in his second and third year (I kinda expect growing pains early on and for some fools to shout "bust" when he gets worked by NFL OL early on, but that's the nature of the beast). The kid was invited by the NFL to be one of the 25 draftees to be in the green room, so that shows what the league thinks of him and multiple scouts and evaluators have said he would have been a top 5 pick if he had stayed another year. I'm glad he didn't.

Year 1, this is most likely a downgrade, but after that this should be a sizable upgrade as the sky is the limit for this kid.

Now, let's move on to CB

Out - Sean Smith was one of my favorite Chiefs and seemed to almost always be in position to break up a pass or to not even let his guy get off press. Huge corner with long arms and a solid tackler....but never took the next step in becoming a ball hawk that got INTs. Losing him is going to hurt.

In - KeiVarae Russel is a freak athlete that went completely under the radar. Good ball skills, top notch performer. Sick measurables. He is going to be every bit the athlete as the guys he will face and is a big time competitor. He won't get beat deep easily (especially with our safeties) with his speed and is absolutely quick and explosive enough to stay with the quicker WRs he will surely face. With teams learning their lesson with testing Peters last year, I'm sure Russel will get lots of opportunities to prove himself at the NFL early and often. Another possible replacement for CB2 is Phillip Gaines, who when healthy is a phenomenal press guy with top notch ability to find the ball in the air. He's been very impressive when he's been on the field, let's hope he stays healthy.

Another position that I'll place similarly to DE in that I see a dropoff in year 1, but the long term outlook is extremely exciting.

In a year or 2, we might have the best CBs in the NFL...if not sooner.

Next up is QB2

Out - Chase Daniel did his job well in KC and parlayed his time here into a 7m per deal in Philly. Alex has been healthy during his time in KC, so luckily we didn't need to use Daniel more....but with the offers he got in FA, teams know what's in his head.

In - Kevin Hogan is a talker carbon copy of Daniel. Not the strongest arm, but a huge brain and great mobility. He's Alex Skith "lite". Probably never becomes a starting NFL QB, because of physical limitations, but won't lose games for us and if we miss Alex for a few games, Hogan can come in and not embarrass himself. Big time leader and a winner. Not exciting as it would have been to have drafted Paxton Lynxh, but a good fit for KC.

I'm gonna go ahead and label this a "push"

On to the safeties.

Out - Hussain Abdullah and Tyvon Branch are going to be missed. No doubt both
We're solid players for us that provided impact in important spots. Branch brought a physical presence to the deep secondary, good ball skills and playmaking ability and Abdullah was able to be the Jack of all trades for us....lining up as a corner in nickel, a deep safety in subs a box safety when needed to match up on a TE and was great in the locker room. They are going to be tough to replace.

In - Dorsey signed 2 veterans to replace them that have shown the ability to be big time performers. Brown had a bunch of interceptions when he played on a talented defense and Wilson flashed ability as well, but not the production. Dorsey also moved Jamel Fleming to safety (I think was a solid move that I wanted KC to do with Bartee for years, but that's another thread) as Fleming seemed to do ok when the ball was in front of him and was a bit lost on deep routes and double moves...those aren't as likely to hurt him if he sticks at safety. The polarizing addition we made here was Eric Murray. I know people see him as a corner, but scouts were adamant that he would fit well as a safety. Very physical, good speed and instincts and is agile enough to handle the 2 way gos he's sure to see when he covers the slot. The kid didn't give up a TD last year in college and he faced some good players to earn that.

I'd have to label this as a downgrade, but I'm excited to see how these guys perform down the stretch once they get their feet wet and start to step up more and more.

On to KR/gadget

Out - Davis is unhappy and DAT might not ever be the same player again...mentally he just seemed to not want to return and the team made a controversial pick to replace him. Davis is a good returner, but offers little else. Poor vision, doesn't break tackles and almost never gets to show off his field speed because of it. He's sofT and has probably played his last game in KC (a game he fumbled and tried to fumble twice against NE) ....when the guy has Ben given opportunities, he has literally fumbled them away every time. Time to move on from these guys.

In - Tyreek Hill is best known for his off the field incident, but for the sake of this write up, I'm going to just talk about he player. World class speed and vision. Straight up. Watch some tape (YouTube videos) on this kid and he's very exciting in the open field and has the quicks to hit the breaks for a second to let guys go by and hit the gas again in a quarter second. Dave Taub said this kid has Devin Hester written all over him and the scouts said he's the best returner they've ever scouted. If the kid stays on the right path off the field, he will provide us with elite abilities as a returner and I'm sure Reid will find ways to utilize his world class speed in the framework of the quick hitting offense we run that requires speed to maximize YAC.

Easily an upgrade and probably gives us the best return game in the NFL if the kid turns out to be what Taub thinks he can be.

All in all, I see KC as having stayed the same, at worst...but have the potential to have these moves move this team from a possible division winner to a dark horse Super Bowl team.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...1#post12213651

**DaneMcCloud** · 05-04-2016, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

They will be on the strength of players returning from injury alone

They are not a good team. Their GM has been very Grigson-esque.

Taking Joey Bosa in the 1st was outright criminal considering their offensive line, which was abused last year.

ThaVirus · 05-04-2016, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

They are not a good team. Their GM has been very Grigson-esque.

Taking Joey Bosa in the 1st was outright criminal considering their offensive line, which was abused last year.

They were ravaged by injuries on the offensive line and other places. Legit, IIRC, they were down to like a 4th or 5th string center at one point during the season.

Their defense will probably still be below average but Rivers will likely still ball out.

ThaVirus · 05-04-2016, 01:54 PM

Paging Detoxing. He'd know more about that than I would.

O.city · 05-04-2016, 01:55 PM

Rivers has to hit the wall at some point

BWillie · 05-04-2016, 04:29 PM

Don't understand how we expect to be better, I mean we might, but there are much more unknowns than last year. We don't know that any of these guys are any good. Only definite upgrade is RT.

pugsnotdrugs19 · 05-04-2016, 04:37 PM

Maybe it's just me but I think the love for Tyvon Branch is extremely overblown.

The guy picked up a fumble and ran it back really fast, and made one nice play at Oakland.

Other than that, the only thing I recall is him getting his shit pushed in at Green Bay when his man to man coverage ability got put in the spotlight.

pugsnotdrugs19 · 05-04-2016, 04:41 PM

At the end of the day, O.city hit it on the head earlier in the thread.

If those 2nd and 3rd year guys like Conley, LDT, Ford, Gaines, Nelson, etc. along with some rookies step up, we will be a better team. There is absolutely no doubt.

If they all fall flat on their face, it won't happen.

Did anyone think Carolina was going to be worth a damn last year? No, but they had a lot of drafted guys step up, specifically on the OL, and it allowed Newton and the running game to thrive. It's all about that in-house player development.

OctoberFart · 05-07-2016, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

It's KC vs. Oakland for the West this year..no doubt about it. None.

Sorry it is the

and Raiders this year. I wouldn't be surprised if KC finished 4th in the divison.

**Buzz** · 05-07-2016, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OctoberFart

Sorry it is the

and Raiders this year. I wouldn't be surprised if KC finished 4th in the divison.

WHAT? Donks with a new QB and Raiders with hopefools, Chiefs have been building and adding depth, don't see it.

Pasta Little Brioni · 05-07-2016, 11:15 PM

Llllloaded lllloaded Autumn Fart

Chiefs4TheWin · 05-07-2016, 11:19 PM

I think we regressed. I hope I'm wrong.

**Buzz** · 05-07-2016, 11:21 PM

Short bus honked and he still missed it.

OctoberFart · 05-08-2016, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz

WHAT? Donks with a new QB and Raiders with hopefools, Chiefs have been building and adding depth, don't see it.

How stupid are you guys? Oakland should have one of the better defenses in the league to go with a pretty good offense. Denver got better too outside of QB and the QB play they had was pretty bad last year.

Cheater5 · 05-08-2016, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OctoberFart

How stupid are you guys? Oakland should have one of the better defenses in the league to go with a pretty good offense. Denver got better too outside of QB and the QB play they had was pretty bad last year.

Rinse and repeat this sentiment since 2003. But this year...for reals.

Yawn.

Chiefshrink · 05-08-2016, 08:29 AM

It's on paper and that's just it. It looks good especially with our draft this past weekend. But that is on paper until we see if it translates from paper to the field as well.

Schwartz alone made the offseason a success. There are too many here who are putting waaaaay too much stock in losing Smith. He will be irrelevant when it's all said and done.

Although it's just on paper right now we have a lot of talented depth right now and let's just hope it translates to the field which I think it will. This will be a fun season to watch our team blossom into full bloom.

05-03-2016, 10:26 AM
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1774088	How much have we improved on paper? Well, the draft and free agency are in the rear view mirror and I think it's time to sit down and look where we have improved and where we might have taken a step back in terms of this roster going into 2016. I'm gonna try to look at the guys we lost and how they were replaced as the "measuring stick". First off, let's start with RT. Out - Donald Stephenson left for an opportunity elsewhere and got paid handsomely in FA at 5m per. IMO the guy was trash outside of maybe a handful of games during his time in KC and I wouldn't have given him more than vet min. In - Mitchell Schwartz has graded out as one of the premier talents at RT in the NFL the last 2 seasons and has shown the ability to stalemate elite pass rushers like Von Miller. This is a HUGE upgrade and should help not only Alex Smith and the RBs, but his ability to work without a ton of help on the edge should help the playcalling utilize Travis Kelce even more in the passing game. Next position I'll look at is LG. Out - Losing Jeff Allen (our best OL last year, when healthy) hurts on paper...but the guy is injury prone and got double what anyone thought he would get in FA. 7m per is just stupid money. The guy solidified the OL when he was out there and helped open holes in the run game and was solid as a pass protector...again, when he was healthy. In - Parker Ehringer is the pick in this draft that got the most "huh?" "Who?" And "what?" Responses from fans, but the scouts seem to be in love with this kid similarly to how they felt about Morse last year...so I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt as the Morse pick was responded to with similar responses. The kid is versatile as having played both tackle spots and also guard. I'm excited to see him step into a situation where he has quality guys on either side of him and is able to use his nastiness to open holes and keep Alex clean. This is probably a downgrade, but the Morse selection makes me put this as a "wait and see" Next up is DE Out - Mike Devito - I was a fan of Devito from the moment we signed him because he's a lunch pail player and was a solid defender, but was also missing a lot of time to injuries at that point of his career and didn't offer much in terms of a pass rush. In - Chris Jones - a prospect that has been labeled by advanced stat sites as "the steal of the draft" ....this kids tape is fun to watch when he's giving his all because it's like a video game with a cheat code enabled. It's very rare for a kid to face top level competition for BIGTIME schools and be flat out dominant. Jones can be seen literally throwing OL to the side on the way to the ball and is just a monster sized person. Very excited to see him in his second and third year (I kinda expect growing pains early on and for some fools to shout "bust" when he gets worked by NFL OL early on, but that's the nature of the beast). The kid was invited by the NFL to be one of the 25 draftees to be in the green room, so that shows what the league thinks of him and multiple scouts and evaluators have said he would have been a top 5 pick if he had stayed another year. I'm glad he didn't. Year 1, this is most likely a downgrade, but after that this should be a sizable upgrade as the sky is the limit for this kid. Now, let's move on to CB Out - Sean Smith was one of my favorite Chiefs and seemed to almost always be in position to break up a pass or to not even let his guy get off press. Huge corner with long arms and a solid tackler....but never took the next step in becoming a ball hawk that got INTs. Losing him is going to hurt. In - KeiVarae Russel is a freak athlete that went completely under the radar. Good ball skills, top notch performer. Sick measurables. He is going to be every bit the athlete as the guys he will face and is a big time competitor. He won't get beat deep easily (especially with our safeties) with his speed and is absolutely quick and explosive enough to stay with the quicker WRs he will surely face. With teams learning their lesson with testing Peters last year, I'm sure Russel will get lots of opportunities to prove himself at the NFL early and often. Another possible replacement for CB2 is Phillip Gaines, who when healthy is a phenomenal press guy with top notch ability to find the ball in the air. He's been very impressive when he's been on the field, let's hope he stays healthy. Another position that I'll place similarly to DE in that I see a dropoff in year 1, but the long term outlook is extremely exciting. In a year or 2, we might have the best CBs in the NFL...if not sooner. Next up is QB2 Out - Chase Daniel did his job well in KC and parlayed his time here into a 7m per deal in Philly. Alex has been healthy during his time in KC, so luckily we didn't need to use Daniel more....but with the offers he got in FA, teams know what's in his head. In - Kevin Hogan is a talker carbon copy of Daniel. Not the strongest arm, but a huge brain and great mobility. He's Alex Skith "lite". Probably never becomes a starting NFL QB, because of physical limitations, but won't lose games for us and if we miss Alex for a few games, Hogan can come in and not embarrass himself. Big time leader and a winner. Not exciting as it would have been to have drafted Paxton Lynxh, but a good fit for KC. I'm gonna go ahead and label this a "push" On to the safeties. Out - Hussain Abdullah and Tyvon Branch are going to be missed. No doubt both We're solid players for us that provided impact in important spots. Branch brought a physical presence to the deep secondary, good ball skills and playmaking ability and Abdullah was able to be the Jack of all trades for us....lining up as a corner in nickel, a deep safety in subs a box safety when needed to match up on a TE and was great in the locker room. They are going to be tough to replace. In - Dorsey signed 2 veterans to replace them that have shown the ability to be big time performers. Brown had a bunch of interceptions when he played on a talented defense and Wilson flashed ability as well, but not the production. Dorsey also moved Jamel Fleming to safety (I think was a solid move that I wanted KC to do with Bartee for years, but that's another thread) as Fleming seemed to do ok when the ball was in front of him and was a bit lost on deep routes and double moves...those aren't as likely to hurt him if he sticks at safety. The polarizing addition we made here was Eric Murray. I know people see him as a corner, but scouts were adamant that he would fit well as a safety. Very physical, good speed and instincts and is agile enough to handle the 2 way gos he's sure to see when he covers the slot. The kid didn't give up a TD last year in college and he faced some good players to earn that. I'd have to label this as a downgrade, but I'm excited to see how these guys perform down the stretch once they get their feet wet and start to step up more and more. On to KR/gadget Out - Davis is unhappy and DAT might not ever be the same player again...mentally he just seemed to not want to return and the team made a controversial pick to replace him. Davis is a good returner, but offers little else. Poor vision, doesn't break tackles and almost never gets to show off his field speed because of it. He's sofT and has probably played his last game in KC (a game he fumbled and tried to fumble twice against NE) ....when the guy has Ben given opportunities, he has literally fumbled them away every time. Time to move on from these guys. In - Tyreek Hill is best known for his off the field incident, but for the sake of this write up, I'm going to just talk about he player. World class speed and vision. Straight up. Watch some tape (YouTube videos) on this kid and he's very exciting in the open field and has the quicks to hit the breaks for a second to let guys go by and hit the gas again in a quarter second. Dave Taub said this kid has Devin Hester written all over him and the scouts said he's the best returner they've ever scouted. If the kid stays on the right path off the field, he will provide us with elite abilities as a returner and I'm sure Reid will find ways to utilize his world class speed in the framework of the quick hitting offense we run that requires speed to maximize YAC. Easily an upgrade and probably gives us the best return game in the NFL if the kid turns out to be what Taub thinks he can be. All in all, I see KC as having stayed the same, at worst...but have the potential to have these moves move this team from a possible division winner to a dark horse Super Bowl team. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...1#post12213651
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05-04-2016, 01:54 PM	#138
ThaVirus 20 Menthol KOOLs Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $1982369	Paging Detoxing. He'd know more about that than I would.
Posts: 44,354

05-04-2016, 01:55 PM	#139
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2644064	Rivers has to hit the wall at some point
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05-04-2016, 04:29 PM	#140
BWillie Future NBA Finals MVP Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Earth Casino cash: $2331241	Don't understand how we expect to be better, I mean we might, but there are much more unknowns than last year. We don't know that any of these guys are any good. Only definite upgrade is RT. __________________ Who wants free money? Use the link below to sign up at Bovada, BetOnline, Black Chip Poker and Ignition. Contact me for private deals, spot bonuses, possible rakeback or any questions! Bovada, Ignition, BetOnline, Black Chip Poker: baldeaglepoker.com Bovada Poker is back! Get up to $500 poker deposit bonus.
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05-04-2016, 04:37 PM	#141
pugsnotdrugs19 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2013 Casino cash: $9119447	Maybe it's just me but I think the love for Tyvon Branch is extremely overblown. The guy picked up a fumble and ran it back really fast, and made one nice play at Oakland. Other than that, the only thing I recall is him getting his shit pushed in at Green Bay when his man to man coverage ability got put in the spotlight.
Posts: 26,377

05-04-2016, 04:41 PM	#142
pugsnotdrugs19 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2013 Casino cash: $9119447	At the end of the day, O.city hit it on the head earlier in the thread. If those 2nd and 3rd year guys like Conley, LDT, Ford, Gaines, Nelson, etc. along with some rookies step up, we will be a better team. There is absolutely no doubt. If they all fall flat on their face, it won't happen. Did anyone think Carolina was going to be worth a damn last year? No, but they had a lot of drafted guys step up, specifically on the OL, and it allowed Newton and the running game to thrive. It's all about that in-house player development.
Posts: 26,377

05-07-2016, 11:15 PM	#145
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $3878880	Llllloaded lllloaded Autumn Fart __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
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05-07-2016, 11:19 PM	#146
Chiefs4TheWin Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hollidaysburg, PA Casino cash: $3452783	I think we regressed. I hope I'm wrong.
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05-07-2016, 11:21 PM	#147
Buzz I like Pie! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In my garage Casino cash: $10016623	Short bus honked and he still missed it.
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