Damn, I miss Todd Haley

[TimeForWasp]

Am I gay?

[Stanley Nickels]

Originally Posted by aturnis

My "overly" fond memories have nothing to do with the current state of the Chiefs, and everything to do with the way I've ALWAYS felt about Todd Haley. The best part is that all of the facts leaking to the media these days seem to back up the way I perceived what was really happening as it unfolded. Haley took the blame for someone much more flawed.

That said, would you elaborate on this square pegs/round hole theory of yours?

Also, do you remember the shape he had the team in his first two years out of camp? You sure 2011 was his call? He didn't seem to get a lot of those from the sounds of things.

2011 was the strike-shortened preseason. Every team had the same amount of time to prepare their guys; that the Chiefs appeared the least prepared, and experienced so many injuries, can't simply fall on the GMs shoulders, much though we'd like it to be that way.

Regarding the coaching philosophy: certainly much of the criticism of Haley not being able to coach his own game is attributable to Pioli. He either should've complemented Haley's style by bringing in players more suitable to those strategies, or hired a different coach. That said, there is a large responsibility by any head coach to be flexible, to adapt to your team when the team isn't suited to what you'd most like to do. That is a criticism of Haley's stubbornness (which, of course, can be a great character trait in a coach) as much as it is Pioli's personnel management.

I really dislike that there is such a divisive and polar mentality in some of these threads. Simply posting what I believe are valid critiques of Haley does not mean I thought he was a poor coach. Likewise, criticisms of Haley are not endorsements of Pioli. Were I to choose, I'd much rather Haley here right now than Pioli; I just wish we wouldn't deify Haley as a world-beater when there were many problems he caused that led to our current situation (like, if he were less stubborn, we likely wouldn't have Romeo goddamn Crennel as our coach right now).

[Stanley Nickels]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I liked the head-scratching 4th-and-whatever fakes/plays/etc.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by Stanley Nickels

2011 was the strike-shortened preseason. Every team had the same amount of time to prepare their guys; that the Chiefs appeared the least prepared, and experienced so many injuries, can't simply fall on the GMs shoulders, much though we'd like it to be that way.

Regarding the coaching philosophy: certainly much of the criticism of Haley not being able to coach his own game is attributable to Pioli. He either should've complemented Haley's style by bringing in players more suitable to those strategies, or hired a different coach. That said, there is a large responsibility by any head coach to be flexible, to adapt to your team when the team isn't suited to what you'd most like to do. That is a criticism of Haley's stubbornness (which, of course, can be a great character trait in a coach) as much as it is Pioli's personnel management.

I really dislike that there is such a divisive and polar mentality in some of these threads. Simply posting what I believe are valid critiques of Haley does not mean I thought he was a poor coach. Likewise, criticisms of Haley are not endorsements of Pioli. Were I to choose, I'd much rather Haley here right now than Pioli; I just wish we wouldn't deify Haley as a world-beater when there were many problems he caused that led to our current situation (like, if he were less stubborn, we likely wouldn't have Romeo goddamn Crennel as our coach right now).

What are those examples though? Can't throw downfield with Cassel or what?

[FAX]

There was method to Haley's madness. He had flaws, no question ... but he was learning on the job and his strengths far outweighed his weaknesses. Eventually, Haley will be a very fine head coach somewhere ... it just won't be with the Chiefs.

FAX

[Stanley Nickels]

Originally Posted by aturnis

What are those examples though? Can't throw downfield with Cassel or what?

For one, yeah. Much of Haley's offense was co-opted by Weiss, and it's unfair to say that either was responsible for the success we saw in 2010, although the evidence would weigh in favor of Weiss given what we saw in 2011. Even so, let's say it was Haley's scheme... it arguably worked to an extent, as defenses had to respect (however little) the long ball. Once other teams saw that Cassel provided absolutely no threat to go long, defenses adjusted and started cheating towards the runs and slants. Now, credit there goes to Haley for forcing the teams to respect the pass; criticism for him is also warranted, as he essentially showed his hand in demonstrating the lack of ability from Cassel. Again, that is far more on Pioli (having signed Cassel) than Haley; but Haley's refusal to adjust to make Cassel's passing seem better (calling more midrange passes) ended up hurting this team in the long-run. Again, this is not a huge criticism of Haley, but it is an example of his unwillingness to change his philosophy based on the players he had.

[Sorter]

The only real issue I have/had with Haley was Dexter. That was his guy.

[Woodchuck]

Originally Posted by aturnis

What are those examples though? Can't throw downfield with Cassel or what?

He tried to throw downfield with Cassel and he is making Rothlesberger throw short. That's pretty much Haley in a nutshell imo.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Woodsponge Chuckpants

He tried to throw downfield with Cassel and he is making Rothlesberger throw short. That's pretty much Haley in a nutshell imo.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by Woodsponge Chuckpants

He tried to throw downfield with Cassel and he is making Rothlesberger throw short. That's pretty much Haley in a nutshell imo.

You mean he has Big Ben on track for one of the best seasons of his career?

[Woodchuck]

Originally Posted by FAX

There was method to Haley's madness. He had flaws, no question ... but he was learning on the job and his strengths far outweighed his weaknesses. Eventually, Haley will be a very fine head coach somewhere ... it just won't be with the Chiefs.

FAX

He tried to "revolutionize" the game. He was so full of himself and that was part of his major downfall. It was the three man playcalling system and the cardio training camp. There are reasons every team in the league does some things the same way. There wasn't always a method to his madness.

[Woodchuck]

Originally Posted by aturnis

You mean he has Big Ben on track for one of the best seasons of his career?

In what? Passing rating? Is it just me or did Haley make the most explosive offense in the NFL non explosive? You don't pigeon hole a guy like Rothlesberger imo. I think it will bite him in the ass.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by Stanley Nickels

For one, yeah. Much of Haley's offense was co-opted by Weiss, and it's unfair to say that either was responsible for the success we saw in 2010, although the evidence would weigh in favor of Weiss given what we saw in 2011. Even so, let's say it was Haley's scheme... it arguably worked to an extent, as defenses had to respect (however little) the long ball. Once other teams saw that Cassel provided absolutely no threat to go long, defenses adjusted and started cheating towards the runs and slants. Now, credit there goes to Haley for forcing the teams to respect the pass; criticism for him is also warranted, as he essentially showed his hand in demonstrating the lack of ability from Cassel. Again, that is far more on Pioli (having signed Cassel) than Haley; but Haley's refusal to adjust to make Cassel's passing seem better (calling more midrange passes) ended up hurting this team in the long-run. Again, this is not a huge criticism of Haley, but it is an example of his unwillingness to change his philosophy based on the players he had.

I'm really just wondering, not trying to be a dick, but is that the only example?

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by Woodsponge Chuckpants

In what? Passing rating? Is it just me or did Haley make the most explosive offense in the NFL non explosive? You don't pigeon hole a guy like Rothlesberger imo. I think it will bite him in the ass.

Riiight. The TD/INT ratio doesn't matter at all... 4:1 ain't bad.

Not to mention that Rothlesberger has taken at least 40 sacks/year since 2006 except for 2010 when he only played in 12 games... Or that since 2006, he's only played one 16 game season. I'd say keeping your best offensive player on the field is a good thing.

[BlackHelicopters]

You are not gay unless it moves when you think of Haley.

[Sorter]

Actually, Haley's philosphy of short/intermediate throws works quite well with the personnel that Pitt has. They have 2 guys in Brown and Wallace who are absolutely fantastic in making YAC.