Cubs acquire Rich Harden

[Sure-Oz]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/0...kaplan-of.html

Cubs Acquire Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin
By Tim Dierkes [July 8 at 5:25pm CST]


5:36pm: The Cubs' press release is out. The Cubs get Harden and Chad Gaudin for Gallagher, Murton, Patterson, and catching prospect Josh Donaldson. Jim Hendry did his best to counter the Brewers' acquisition of CC Sabathia. The A's get three MLB-ready players plus a solid offense-oriented catching prospect

Harden, 26, has been dominant in 13 starts for the A's this year. The injury-prone Harden is a tantalizing player; he's only topped 130 innings once but has a career ERA of 3.42. The latest concern: decreased velocity/dead arm in his last start. Harden has a $7MM club option for '09, which is highly likely to be exercised.

[Sure-Oz]

Cubs didn't give up shit except for a possible solid starter

[Coach]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Wow, Cubs gave up a lot for a pitcher that can't stay healthy.

Not necessarly. The best player they gave up was Gallagher, and he projects to be a solid 3/4 starter in MLB level.

Murton, 26, is hitting .250/.286/.300 with no home runs and a .198 EqA in 19 games. At Iowa this season, he batted .298/.397/.382 with one homer and a translated .243 EqA in 54 games.

Patterson, 25, was hitting .320/.358/.517 with six home runs and a translated .269 EqA in 52 games at Iowa. In a stint with the Cubs this season, he batted .237/.318/.342 with one homer and a .238 EqA in 13 games.

And for Donaldson, he's a A player, and more than likely he wouldn't see the MLB level as a Cub, since the Cubs have Soto, and also Welington Castillo turning into a good player at AA, his loss isn't a very significant one.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

That was fast.

I hate to lose Gallagher, I wish Murton nothing but the best in Beanetown, E-Pat never had a chance in Chicago due to Corey's miserable legacy, and Donaldson could be a really good player at some point. But Harden and Gaudin are awesome additions.

Donaldson is a good offensive player, but his defense, reportedly, did need some work. But as my previous post mentioned, Welington Castillo is turning into a good player at Tennessee (AA), so his loss isn't a very significant one.

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by the_spatula

are you serious??

and don't underestimate the importance of gaudin in the deal.... the cubs are huge winners in this one imo

Harden has thrown over 128 innings once in his last five seasons. Seems like a ton to give up for a guy who is so fragile.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Harden has thrown over 128 innings once in his last five seasons. Seems like a ton to give up for a guy who is so fragile.

Even if he's on the field as little as Nomar Garciaparra was, it's still a good move. It gives the Cubs a legit chance just to have him in their control. Harden could start 20 more times and throw 20 shutouts and it doesn't guarantee anything. This is a good deal. The Cubs gave up some talent, but nobody that had a clear cut spot in the near future.

[Ultra Peanut]

Originally Posted by Coach

Donaldson is a good offensive player, but his defense, reportedly, did need some work. But as my previous post mentioned, Welington Castillo is turning into a good player at Tennessee (AA), so his loss isn't a very significant one.

The other thing about Donaldson is, y'know... Geo's only 25.

Your point about the "no clear-cut future role" for the guys who were traded is pretty much spot-on. Their upside seems to be:

Gallager -> Solid rotation guy, but not a star
Murton -> Nice bat off the bench (due to defensive ineptitude)
E-Pat -> Utility guy, maybe a half-decent starter at some point
Donaldson -> Offensive catcher (but again, he's only ~3 years younger than Soto, who's OPSing .902 with 15 home runs this year)

Gaudin's a really solid bullpen arm who's locked up for a long time, and Harden's a guy who can be an ace if he's healthy and has a team option for next year. Nice trade for all involved.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

The other thing about Donaldson is, y'know... Geo's only 25.

Your point about the "no clear-cut future role" for the guys who were traded is pretty much spot-on. Their upside seems to be:

Gallager -> Solid rotation guy
Murton -> Nice bat off the bench (due to defensive ineptitude)
E-Pat -> Utility guy
Donaldson -> Offensive catcher (but again, he's only ~3 years younger than Soto, who's OPSing .902 with 15 home runs this year)

Gaudin's a really solid bullpen arm who's locked up for a long time, and Harden's a guy who can be an ace if he's healthy and has a team option for next year. Nice trade for all involved.

You're correct about that Geo is 25, and not to mention that he works very well with our pitching staff. So I think the Cubs have finally found their COTF (Catcher of the Future).

Gaudin is a very interesting player. Two years ago, he was a starter for the A's and posted a 1.530 WHIP. Not great, but not exactly horrible. He'd make a nice 5th starter for the Cubs, if they somehow can get rid of Marquis.

Here's the wildcard though. Rich Hill.

[Sure-Oz]

Originally Posted by Coach

You're correct about that Geo is 25, and not to mention that he works very well with our pitching staff. So I think the Cubs have finally found their COTF (Catcher of the Future).

Gaudin is a very interesting player. Two years ago, he was a starter for the A's and posted a 1.530 WHIP. Not great, but not exactly horrible. He'd make a nice 5th starter for the Cubs, if they somehow can get rid of Marquis.

Here's the wildcard though. Rich Hill.

Hill doesn't sound like he'll find his control anytime soon, atleast this buys them time with him

[SPATCH]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Harden has thrown over 128 innings once in his last five seasons. Seems like a ton to give up for a guy who is so fragile.

ok this isn't a gasol-for-kwami brown-type steal.. but the cubs didn't give up hardly anything. where is this "ton" of talent that you are seeing?

[Ultra Peanut]

Originally Posted by Coach

if they somehow can get rid of Marquis.

Elijah Dukes has an idea!

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

Hill doesn't sound like he'll find his control anytime soon, atleast this buys them time with him

Yeah. I've written off Hill for this year, though the latest news about him from AZ seems at least a little promising.

If we're talking wildcards, I think Angel Guzman is higher on that list than Hill.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by the_spatula

the cubs have been the class of the NL the entire year.. you're an idiot if you think you can rely on the curse of the billy goat, or whatever, to bail your asses out again this year..

this isn't the NL Central of the last few years where you could just suck the least and make the playoffs

Oh yeah. Real tough stretch there where you clowns didn't play a team with a winning record for over a month. Let's start printing World Series t-shirts because you can beat the crap out of Pittsburgh. What's your record against good teams? What's your road record? How overdue is that hothead prick of a manager for a major meltdown? Are you stocked up on diapers for Soriano and Zambrano? Do you really think Wood will stay healthy? Do you really think Jim WHIFF Edmonds won't choke down the stretch?

I've lived up here for 20 years now. It's always the same.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

Hill doesn't sound like he'll find his control anytime soon, atleast this buys them time with him

Actually, latest reports coming out of Mesa AZ is that Hill went 4 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 6 K/1 BB on Sunday in Mesa.

Hill also featured his new delivery, and it looks like he may actually have found the cure for his version of Steve Blass Disease.

He no longer tilts his shoulder and head back to the extent he had been doing (a la Fernando Valenzuela), which allows him to keep his eyes on the catcher's target.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

Elijah Dukes has an idea!



Yeah. I've written off Hill for this year, though the latest news about him from AZ seems at least a little promising.

If we're talking wildcards, I think Angel Guzman is higher on that list than Hill.

Guzman is intruging as well, but his major injury prone really scares me. He makes Harden look like Maddux (health-wise) As for Hill, I wouldn't totally write him off this year yet, since he's still on the 40 man roster and there is the September call-ups. If he dominates in September (Like Soto did the year before) the Cubs would be foolish to not include him in the playoff roster.

[Ultra Peanut]

Originally Posted by the_spatula

ok this isn't a gasol-for-kwami brown-type steal.. but the cubs didn't give up hardly anything. where is this "ton" of talent that you are seeing?

It wasn't Pau for Kwame. It was Pau for Javaris Crittendon (2007 1st rounder), Marc Gasol (07-08 Spanish league MVP), a 2008 1st rounder (Darrell Arthur), a 2010 1st rounder, and expirings.

As a Grizzlies fan, I'm not too upset about that deal, since it's positioned the team to make a big addition next summer (Boozer pls kthx) after accumulating a really talented backcourt and some nice frontcourt prospects in Arthur and Gasol (plus Warrick, who could be a valuable trade piece).

[SPATCH]

Originally Posted by frazod

Oh yeah. Real tough stretch there where you clowns didn't play a team with a winning record for over a month. Let's start printing World Series t-shirts because you can beat the crap out of Pittsburgh. What's your record against good teams? What's your road record? How overdue is that hothead prick of a manager for a major meltdown? Are you stocked up on diapers for Soriano and Zambrano? Do you really think Wood will stay healthy? Do you really think Jim WHIFF Edmonds won't choke down the stretch?

I've lived up here for 20 years now. It's always the same.

have no idea why you are using "you/your" when you're addressing me. i'm not a cubs fan if that is what you think.

i'm just saying that the cardinals have been banking on the cubs/brewers/astros to eat shit when it matters for too long now. if they don't make a move, they won't make the playoffs.