Revisiting the Jared Allen Trade

[Mr. Flopnuts]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post...ed-allen-trade

Bill Williamson

The image of a purple-clad Jared Allen celebrating over fallen quarterbacks can’t be fun for Kansas City Chiefs fans. (NFC North blogger Kevin Seifert took a look at the Allen deal from the Vikings' perspective.)

They were used to seeing the mulleted one celebrating sacks as a Chief. Since Allen was traded to the Minnesota Vikings in 2008, the Chiefs have been listless on defense.

But two seasons into the blockbuster trade, it is not necessarily fair to say Kansas City was a loser in the trade.

Kansas City sent Allen and a sixth-round draft pick in 2008 for the No. 17 overall pick, two third-round picks and a sixth-round pick. Kansas City turned the picks into tackle Branden Albert, running back Jamaal Charles, safety DaJuan Morgan and sixth-round pick Kevin Robinson. The Vikings turned the Chiefs’ sixth-round pick into center John Sullivan.

“Kansas City really can’t worry about what Allen is doing in Minnesota and that Sullivan is a starter,” Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. said. “The Chiefs knew Allen was going to be good in Minnesota. But they didn’t want to pay him so they got very good value. That’s why the trade was good. It was a good trade because the value was good. Let’s see what Kansas City is going to do with it. It still can be a very good trade for the Chiefs.”

The following is a look at the key aspects of the trade two seasons later:

Jamaal Charles: Charles is the key player in the deal from the Chiefs’ perspective. If he can build upon his fantastic finish in 2009, this trade will be great for Kansas City.

Charles was taken with the first of the two third-rounders the Chiefs got from Minnesota. The speedster ran for 1,120 yards after taking over as the starter in November, including 259 yards in the season finale against Denver. He averaged a whopping 5.9 yards per carry for the season and represents hope for Kansas City’s offense.

“I still think Kansas City needs to pick up a 230-pound back to run the ball 10 times to keep Charles fresh, but he looks like the real deal,” Williamson said. “He can be special. If Charles can get better and become a legit 1,500-yard back, then the Chiefs will really have something. It looks promising.”

Branden Albert: Albert was expected to be the centerpiece of this trade because he was the No. 15 overall pick (the Chiefs swapped the No. 17 pick to Detroit), but he has been slow to get his career going.

Albert, who has dealt with injuries, has been inconsistent at left tackle. Many league observers believe Albert will excel at either right tackle or left guard. The Chiefs might select a left tackle with the No. 5 pick in the 2010 draft and then move Albert to right tackle. Or, when Brian Waters (who turns 33 on Feb. 18) retires, Albert could move to left guard -- the position he played in college. Williamson thinks Albert could be a near-Pro Bowl-caliber guard.

Jared Allen posted a career-high 15.5 sacks in his final season in Kansas City.

If Kansas City does find a new left tackle and Albert plays right tackle in 2010, he should improve and be a solid contributor.

The Chiefs do miss Allen: There is no doubt Kansas City misses the talented Allen, but it was clear they would. He is a special pass-rusher.

Allen had 14.5 sacks in each of his seasons in Minnesota. He had 43 sacks in his four seasons in Kansas City, and the Chiefs have had little pass-rush presence since Allen was traded. In 2008, in fact, Kansas City set a record for the fewest sacks in a season with 10.

“The Chiefs don’t have a pass rush without Allen,” said Gary Horton of Scouts Inc. “They lost a lot by giving him up. Special, game-changing pass-rushers, which he is, are difficult to lose. They miss him, there’s no doubt.”

He wouldn’t fit Kansas City’s defense right now: Ironically, Allen wouldn’t be a great fit for the current Chiefs scheme. He was traded before the final season of the Carl Peterson-Herm Edwards era.

Last year, when Scott Pioli took over as general manager and hired Todd Haley as coach, Kansas City moved from a 4-3 defense to a 3-4 scheme. Allen wouldn’t have had an obvious position in the 3-4, a problem the Chiefs also encountered with defensive lineman Glenn Dorsey and linebacker Derrick Johnson.

“He’d be a total waste in Kansas City’s new scheme,” Williamson said. “He is not a 3-4 guy. He’s a classic 4-3 guy. So, it’s funny; Allen wouldn’t be right for the Chiefs. Maybe they would have stuck to a 4-3 if he stayed.”

Conclusion: By no means does this trade seem like a disaster for Kansas City. Yes, Minnesota is tickled with the deal and it should be. Allen is a great player.

But if Charles and Albert become solid fixtures in the offense, the deal will be good for Kansas City. It’d be nice if Morgan (whom the previous Kansas City regime loved as a rookie) bounces back from a poor second season and becomes a solid contributor, the trade will even be better. Robinson was cut as a rookie.

“On paper, it was a good trade then for Kansas City and it still can be very good,” Horton said. “Allen was going to be a good player on a bad team. The Chiefs needed to get younger. They seem to be on the right track with this trade.”

[Gadzooks]

Originally Posted by Mecca

And you think this team has that?

Good point... Innovative coaches are extremely rare. It's amazing how inept most professional coaches are.
Typical coach’s mantra = “These are the rules. I must obey…”

[Easy 6]

I've never once watched Kampman or Hali chase a RB or TE 30-40-60 yards downfield for the tackle, nor i have i ever watched them or any other DE for that matter, pull off tippy-toe fade route 2 point conversions.

Jared is a level of athleticism above both & like Zooks says, a top coach would find a role for Jared regardless of rigidly defined scheme... if Tamba can pick up OLB on the go, theres absolutely no question that JA could, IMO.

Personally, i'm ready to move on... Charles alone might yet justify the trade, throw in a surely improving Albert & this shouldnt be some big fiasco to look back on for the next 40 years.

2010 has already started, next.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by scott free

I've never once watched Kampman or Hali chase a RB or TE 30-40-60 yards downfield for the tackle, nor i have i ever watched them or any other DE for that matter, pull off tippy-toe fade route 2 point conversions.

Jared is a level of athleticism above both & like Zooks says, a top coach would find a role for Jared regardless of rigidly defined scheme... if Tamba can pick up OLB on the go, theres absolutely no question that JA could, IMO.

Personally, i'm ready to move on... Charles alone might yet justify the trade, throw in a surely improving Albert & this shouldnt be some big fiasco to look back on for the next 40 years.

2010 has already started, next.

Hali has chased down many more backs and TE's than Jared ever has. It is amazing how the legend of Jared Allen has grown. Heck, at this rate, he may save more souls than Sanchez.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Hali has chased down many more backs and TE's than Jared ever has. It is amazing how the legend of Jared Allen has grown. Heck, at this rate, he may save more souls than Sanchez.

First, i'm not knocking Hali, he has great 10-15 yard quicks, active hands, a nonstop motor, he's learning to drop into a zone, leverage... the finer points of the position, beyond 'get the QB' etc... but what? sideline to sideline, up & down the field, grace of movement & speed? if you're telling me that Hali or Kampman even approach JA's level of athleticism & speed... then theres nothing more to discuss.

[Bugeater]

I find it funny that Floppy posted this thread right at 4:20.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by KC111110

truth is the guy wanted out, thats that. we got good picks for him (1st and two 3rd's) but forgot we had an idiot making those picks. so . . . .

Excuse me: An idiot?

So you DON'T like Brandon Albert or Jammal Charles?

Maybe if Pioli were around, we could have taken Cherilus in the first.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by scott free

First, i'm not knocking Hali, he has great 10-15 yard quicks, active hands, a nonstop motor, he's learning to drop into a zone, leverage... the finer points of the position, beyond 'get the QB' etc... but what? sideline to sideline, up & down the field, grace of movement & speed? if you're telling me that Hali or Kampman even approach JA's level of athleticism & speed... then theres nothing more to discuss.

I just disagree completely about what Allen is. Allen is a great pass rusher with his hand in the dirt. You stand him up off the ball and he isn't the same guy. For everything Hali isn't... he fits the 3-4 very well. He is a team defender. He is a solid assignment guy. He is many things that Allen just isn't. Allen is a great talent. Allen is a very good 4-3 end. Allen may even make the HOF some day. But, that will be because he has not had to switch to a 3-4.

[Gadzooks]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

I just disagree completely about what Allen is. Allen is a great pass rusher with his hand in the dirt. You stand him up off the ball and he isn't the same guy. For everything Hali isn't... he fits the 3-4 very well. He is a team defender. He is a solid assignment guy. He is many things that Allen just isn't. Allen is a great talent. Allen is a very good 4-3 end. Allen may even make the HOF some day. But, that will be because he has not had to switch to a 3-4.

I sturdily doubt they would've switched to a 3-4 if Allen was still there. Esp. since they'd just drafted Dorsey the previous draft.
"Round hole... Meet Square peg"

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Zooks

I sturdily doubt they would've switched to a 3-4 if Allen was still there. Esp. since they'd just drafted Dorsey the previous draft.
"Round hole... Meet Square peg"

Pioli would switch to the 3-4 if he had the ****ing Steel Curtain.

[notorious]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Pioli would switch to the 3-4 if he had the ****ing Steel Curtain.

Instead he switched to the 3-4 when he had the ****ing Meat Curtains.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

just to clarify, the link you provided shows us 16th in yards per game...there is no overall stat...we were 11 in points allowed, etc...you can sort each column by clicking on it, you were showing a sort for yards per game

I used the wrong word, I meant total defense. My mistake. The point still stands.

We might not have an offense by now, but we sure would have a defense.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Zooks

I sturdily doubt they would've switched to a 3-4 if Allen was still there. Esp. since they'd just drafted Dorsey the previous draft.
"Round hole... Meet Square peg"

I actually disagree. I think Pioli is the most comfortable with a 3-4, and I think the switch would have been made regardless.

Of course, had Allen not been traded, the Chiefs 'may' not have had such a poor record in 2008, and perhaps the Herm era would have continued. Kuharich would have likely succeeded CP had the Chiefs not done so poorly.

Then again, maybe Clark wanted a completely different direction, and was already in talks with Pioli over the last couple years and the trade of JA was just another step to get ready for Pioli's arrival. Not saying this is true, but I do wonder how long ago Clark started talking to Pioli about maybe coming to KC.

If JA were still here. If Pioli were hired, I think he would have been traded. And, at that point, I wonder if the Chiefs could have gotten any more value than they did.

[DumbHillbillies]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

In a way, Allen was the sacrificial lamb to get Carl out of town.

He's our own personal Jesus Christ.

I've always thought this. That's why the trade doesn't upset me too much anymore.

[MahiMike]

Jamaal Charles > Jared Allen

[TEX]

Originally Posted by MahiMike

Jamaal Charles > Jared Allen

You're joking - right???

The VIKES got the better end of the deal. You just don't trade an elite / young pass rusher - EVER! You never let it get to the point that it did in the first place so you have no way out but to trade said player. However, the way I "justify" the trade is that it set a whole lot of things in motion and the Chiefs will be better off in the long run. Had it not happend the way it did, Carl and Herm could likely still be in KC. ANYTHING is BETTER than that.