Chiefs Gretz: A Look At Pioli’s Record/Part 1

**Tribal Warfare** · 01-14-2009, 08:21 PM

A Look At Pioli’s Record/Part 1
January 13, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

There are four different avenues that produce players for NFL teams.

There is unrestricted free agency, street free agents or players that have failed with another team and college free agents.

But the biggest pipeline is the NFL Draft.

There is no question that the Super Bowl success of the New England Patriots was built on draft picks. Just about all their key performers came through selections made by Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli (left).

Not a lot is known about just how the Patriots operated in the draft room, but we know Belichick had the final say so. We also know he had a great deal of faith in Pioli and his scouts’ ability to match college players with what Belichick was looking for on his roster. There was most definitely a plan, and most definitely a template for physical characteristics and skills at certain positions.

A team that takes advantage of the draft does two things: it does not make mistakes at the top of the draft and it finds gems in the later rounds, players who make contributions despite being selected late in the process. For the most part, the Patriots did both and that allowed them to win three Super Bowls.

Here’s the list of players the Patriots drafted from 2000-2004.

Here’s the list of players the Patriots drafted from 2005-2008.

And here are some items of interest that come out of analyzing the 77 players the Patriots have selected in the 2000 through 2008 NFL Drafts:

– New England’s average pick in the first round over the last nine years was No. 20. There were no picks in the top five and only two in the top 10 and three in the top half of the draft. Because of their success, they normally held draft positions late in rounds. They had just 14 picks in the top 50 and 26 in the top 100.

– The Patriots did not use picks on small college players. Of those 77 selected, 74 were from major college teams/Division 1. Two were from what used to be called Division 1-AA and they drafted just one small college player: TE Andy Stokes, who was the final player taken in the 2005 Draft out of William Penn University, a NAIA school.

– Not only did the Patriots zero in on major college talent, they looked especially hard at the major conferences. Of those 77 players, 55 were taken from schools in the Atlantic Coast, Big 12, Big 10, Pac-10 and Southeastern Conferences, along with Notre Dame. The Big 12 and SEC led the way with 12 players each.

– Belichick-Pioli hit on their No. 1 picks, as eight of the nine are still with the team. The only one missing is 2002 first-rounder Daniel Graham, who left as a free agent and signed with Denver after five seasons in New England. The remaining eight are all starters for the Patriots: RDE Richard Seymour, LDE Ty Warren, NT Vince Wilfork, TE Ben Watson, LG Logan Mankins, RB Laurence Maroney, S Brandon Meriweather and LB Jerod Mayo.

– As good as they were in the first round, New England was bad in the second round. They had eight choices in that round in nine years, and only two remain with the team: starting left tackle Matt Light and rookie cornerback Terrence Wheatley, who finished the season on the injured-reserve list after playing in seven games

– The Patriots had what could be called the greatest value pick of the decade when they grabbed quarterback Tom Brady with choice No. 199 in the sixth round of the 2000 Draft. Brady went on to become quite possibly the greatest clutch quarterback in the history of the game, leading the team to three Super Bowls.

– They may have done it again with seventh-round choice quarterback Matt Cassel, who came in and replaced the injured Brady in the ‘08 season opener against the Chiefs and went on to a remarkable season for a quarterback who had not been a starter since high school.

– In nine drafts, the highest quarterback selection for the Patriots came in the ‘08 Draft when they took quarterback Kevin O’Connell in the third round with the 94th pick. Only five of the other 31 teams in the league have not drafted a quarterback higher than the 94th spot: Indianapolis, New Orleans, Carolina, Tampa Bay and St. Louis. Some have taken more than one quarterback higher than No. 94.

– As good as the Patriots have been at finding quarterbacks, that’s how bad they’ve been in finding and keeping wide receivers. They’ve drafted six, including a trio of second-round picks. One of those was just two years ago, when they grabbed Florida’s Chad Jackson, but they released him at the end of the ‘08 pre-season. Of the six wide receivers on the roster at the end of the ‘08 season, only one came through the draft: rookie Matthew Slater. Their two starters, Randy Moss and Wes Welker, cost them second, fourth and seventh round picks.

– New England invested a lot of early draft choices along the defensive line, with three first-round picks and one second-rounder among 11 total picks. They only used three early choices along the offensive line, with one first and a pair of second-round choices.

– They selected eight tight ends in nine drafts, including a pair of first-round choices. That’s more first round tight ends than first round quarterbacks/running backs/wide receivers combined.

– Their favorite positions in the draft were linebacker and cornerback, where they’ve selected 10 players each.

Reerun_KC · 01-14-2009, 08:22 PM

Gretz....

siberian khatru · 01-14-2009, 08:23 PM

"By comparison, the Chiefs under Carl Peterson did a MUCH better job drafting."

**Tribal Warfare** · 01-14-2009, 08:26 PM

You can tell his ass his going to get fired

**Rain Man** · 01-14-2009, 08:26 PM

I like Pioli, but I think he pulled the trigger too soon on Brady. I think he could've waited and picked him in the 7th round.

T-post Tom · 01-14-2009, 08:29 PM

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=200279

(Keep the Ms. Lima pics going and you get a permanent pass on reposts.)

Hydrae · 01-14-2009, 08:36 PM

Oh noes, we will still suck with our 2nd round picks!

Marcellus · 01-14-2009, 08:41 PM

I don't care for Gretz anymore but what about this article was offensive?

**007** · 01-14-2009, 08:46 PM

Glad I skipped to the responses before reading the article. It obviously would have pissed me off.

chiefzilla1501 · 01-14-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I don't care for Gretz anymore but what about this article was offensive?

You're right. I just read it now.

It does bring up some interesting points. Namely, it is interesting that they spend so many picks on tight ends and it's interesting that they are so lousy at drafting receivers.

It's one of those weird things. I look at the Eagles--arguably the second best team in the NFL at drafting players. For some weird reason, they just do a lousy job of drafting receivers. Why is that? That's so weird. The good news is, we already have a pretty good one on our roster right now.

Marcellus · 01-14-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You're right. I just read it now.

It does bring up some interesting points. Namely, it is interesting that they spend so many picks on tight ends and it's interesting that they are so lousy at drafting receivers.

It's one of those weird things. I look at the Eagles--arguably the second best team in the NFL at drafting players. For some weird reason, they just do a lousy job of drafting receivers. Why is that? That's so weird. The good news is, we already have a pretty good one on our roster right now.

I thought the same thing about the receivers and TE. We have Cottam and there is no telling with him right now but he doesn't look like a bust.

Who was the receiver they drafted that went to Seattle for big $?

chiefzilla1501 · 01-14-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I thought the same thing about the receivers and TE. We have Cottam and there is no telling with him right now but he doesn't look like a bust.

Who was the receiver they drafted that went to Seattle for big $?

Deion Branch. He's a decent receiver, but he's more of a #2 guy IMO than a #1 guy.

But anyway... while those are two positions, he has been beyond outstanding at drafting every other position. That's what makes it weird. I'm ok with so-so receivers if that means that the rest of the 45+ players on the team are going to be insanely good.

StcChief · 01-14-2009, 09:14 PM

well...with is focus up front. where all teams are built thru draft. I'm fine with him.
I'll let his resume/results speak for themselves.

so they got lucky with Brady.... Cassell? every team gets a diamond. Jared Allen?

DrRyan · 01-14-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I thought the same thing about the receivers and TE. We have Cottam and there is no telling with him right now but he doesn't look like a bust.

Who was the receiver they drafted that went to Seattle for big $?

I assume your are thinking of Deion Branch.

**cdcox** · 01-14-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You're right. I just read it now.

It does bring up some interesting points. Namely, it is interesting that they spend so many picks on tight ends and it's interesting that they are so lousy at drafting receivers.

It's one of those weird things. I look at the Eagles--arguably the second best team in the NFL at drafting players. For some weird reason, they just do a lousy job of drafting receivers. Why is that? That's so weird. The good news is, we already have a pretty good one on our roster right now.

So it makes you wonder why they bother drafting receivers at all? Why not just pick up receivers via trade and FA? Which is what the Pats finally did with Moss and Welker. A few big name receivers change teams every year.

01-14-2009, 08:21 PM
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $722813	Gretz: A Look At Pioli’s Record/Part 1 A Look At Pioli’s Record/Part 1 January 13, 2009 - Bob Gretz \| There are four different avenues that produce players for NFL teams. There is unrestricted free agency, street free agents or players that have failed with another team and college free agents. But the biggest pipeline is the NFL Draft. There is no question that the Super Bowl success of the New England Patriots was built on draft picks. Just about all their key performers came through selections made by Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli (left). Not a lot is known about just how the Patriots operated in the draft room, but we know Belichick had the final say so. We also know he had a great deal of faith in Pioli and his scouts’ ability to match college players with what Belichick was looking for on his roster. There was most definitely a plan, and most definitely a template for physical characteristics and skills at certain positions. A team that takes advantage of the draft does two things: it does not make mistakes at the top of the draft and it finds gems in the later rounds, players who make contributions despite being selected late in the process. For the most part, the Patriots did both and that allowed them to win three Super Bowls. Here’s the list of players the Patriots drafted from 2000-2004. Here’s the list of players the Patriots drafted from 2005-2008. And here are some items of interest that come out of analyzing the 77 players the Patriots have selected in the 2000 through 2008 NFL Drafts: – New England’s average pick in the first round over the last nine years was No. 20. There were no picks in the top five and only two in the top 10 and three in the top half of the draft. Because of their success, they normally held draft positions late in rounds. They had just 14 picks in the top 50 and 26 in the top 100. – The Patriots did not use picks on small college players. Of those 77 selected, 74 were from major college teams/Division 1. Two were from what used to be called Division 1-AA and they drafted just one small college player: TE Andy Stokes, who was the final player taken in the 2005 Draft out of William Penn University, a NAIA school. – Not only did the Patriots zero in on major college talent, they looked especially hard at the major conferences. Of those 77 players, 55 were taken from schools in the Atlantic Coast, Big 12, Big 10, Pac-10 and Southeastern Conferences, along with Notre Dame. The Big 12 and SEC led the way with 12 players each. – Belichick-Pioli hit on their No. 1 picks, as eight of the nine are still with the team. The only one missing is 2002 first-rounder Daniel Graham, who left as a free agent and signed with Denver after five seasons in New England. The remaining eight are all starters for the Patriots: RDE Richard Seymour, LDE Ty Warren, NT Vince Wilfork, TE Ben Watson, LG Logan Mankins, RB Laurence Maroney, S Brandon Meriweather and LB Jerod Mayo. – As good as they were in the first round, New England was bad in the second round. They had eight choices in that round in nine years, and only two remain with the team: starting left tackle Matt Light and rookie cornerback Terrence Wheatley, who finished the season on the injured-reserve list after playing in seven games – The Patriots had what could be called the greatest value pick of the decade when they grabbed quarterback Tom Brady with choice No. 199 in the sixth round of the 2000 Draft. Brady went on to become quite possibly the greatest clutch quarterback in the history of the game, leading the team to three Super Bowls. – They may have done it again with seventh-round choice quarterback Matt Cassel, who came in and replaced the injured Brady in the ‘08 season opener against the Chiefs and went on to a remarkable season for a quarterback who had not been a starter since high school. – In nine drafts, the highest quarterback selection for the Patriots came in the ‘08 Draft when they took quarterback Kevin O’Connell in the third round with the 94th pick. Only five of the other 31 teams in the league have not drafted a quarterback higher than the 94th spot: Indianapolis, New Orleans, Carolina, Tampa Bay and St. Louis. Some have taken more than one quarterback higher than No. 94. – As good as the Patriots have been at finding quarterbacks, that’s how bad they’ve been in finding and keeping wide receivers. They’ve drafted six, including a trio of second-round picks. One of those was just two years ago, when they grabbed Florida’s Chad Jackson, but they released him at the end of the ‘08 pre-season. Of the six wide receivers on the roster at the end of the ‘08 season, only one came through the draft: rookie Matthew Slater. Their two starters, Randy Moss and Wes Welker, cost them second, fourth and seventh round picks. – New England invested a lot of early draft choices along the defensive line, with three first-round picks and one second-rounder among 11 total picks. They only used three early choices along the offensive line, with one first and a pair of second-round choices. – They selected eight tight ends in nine drafts, including a pair of first-round choices. That’s more first round tight ends than first round quarterbacks/running backs/wide receivers combined. – Their favorite positions in the draft were linebacker and cornerback, where they’ve selected 10 players each.
Posts: 42,144

01-14-2009, 08:23 PM	#3
siberian khatru 21st Century Schizoid Fan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Gates of Delirium Casino cash: $2354950	"By comparison, the Chiefs under Carl Peterson did a MUCH better job drafting."
Posts: 69,259

01-14-2009, 08:26 PM	#4
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $722813	You can tell his ass his going to get fired __________________
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01-14-2009, 08:26 PM	#5
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3128491 VARSITY	I like Pioli, but I think he pulled the trigger too soon on Brady. I think he could've waited and picked him in the 7th round. __________________ I'm putting random letters here as a celebration of free speech: xigrakgrah misorojeq rkemeseit.
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01-14-2009, 08:29 PM	#6
T-post Tom Threepeat! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Milk/Honey/Gazland Casino cash: $4437293	http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=200279 (Keep the Ms. Lima pics going and you get a permanent pass on reposts.) __________________ You seem nice!
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01-14-2009, 08:22 PM	#2
Reerun_KC Rock Chalk Jayhawks! KU!!! Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $8301160	Gretz....
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01-14-2009, 08:36 PM	#7
Hydrae Sandbox: Leander Lasercats Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Austin, Tx Casino cash: $2137000	Oh noes, we will still suck with our 2nd round picks!
Posts: 14,693

01-14-2009, 08:41 PM	#8
Marcellus Diablo Negro Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $2892662	I don't care for Gretz anymore but what about this article was offensive?
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01-14-2009, 08:46 PM	#9
007 Shaken. Not stirred. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London Casino cash: $13990126 VARSITY	Glad I skipped to the responses before reading the article. It obviously would have pissed me off. __________________ My dear girl, there are some things that just aren’t done. Such as, drinking Dom Perignon ’53 above the temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s just as bad as listening to the Beatles without earmuffs.
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01-14-2009, 09:14 PM	#13
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	well...with is focus up front. where all teams are built thru draft. I'm fine with him. I'll let his resume/results speak for themselves. so they got lucky with Brady.... Cassell? every team gets a diamond. Jared Allen? __________________ sig test for this screwy schema
Posts: 25,901