Cardinals ****Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread **** - Page 155

**BigRedChief** · 02:36 PM

2011 WS Championship
2012 one win from another WS
2013 two wins from another WS title
2014?

This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons.
Reached three World Series in the last decade, and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager.
Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team.
Only one of the last 14 seasons has been a losing one.

duncan_idaho · 07-31-2014, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Craig might do that, I doubt it, but he may.

But Kelly is the definition of average starting mlb pitcher.

WHen I think "Replacement level starting pitcher," I think "Joe Kelly."

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-31-2014, 11:23 AM

Sorry guys, I don't like this trade at all.

Craig was awful this year. Awful. But I think that's almost all due to his foot injury. I think if we gave him another year he could right things. Granted, we don't have a spot to play him, but I think had we waited for him to rebuild some of his value we might have been able to turn him into a more valuable piece. His wRC the last three years were 151, 137, and 134. That is a lot of offensive production to lose. I don't know if you can say he just fell off a ****ing cliff. It's gotta be the foot, and those do heal.

Kelly is just a guy, but he is cost-controlled.

This doesn't fix any underlying problems with the offense and Lackey is one of the worst people in professional baseball.

It opens up space for Oscar, so I get it, but I just don't know.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-31-2014, 11:28 AM

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2014, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

you open up RF for Taveras (so the manager has to play him).

You forget that they have the Robinson weapon waiting down in AAA to platoon with OT.

O.city · 07-31-2014, 11:29 AM

Basically traded cost controlled pitcher for cost controlled RFer who you hope becomes a big bat in your lineup.

It may have been the foot on Craig. But with another year of healing, is another year of age on a guy who already has an injury history that's piling up.

Makes me wonder if they think te foot is what it is and won't improve.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2014, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

We will always have Torty in our memories !

O.city · 07-31-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Sorry guys, I don't like this trade at all.

Craig was awful this year. Awful. But I think that's almost all due to his foot injury. I think if we gave him another year he could right things. Granted, we don't have a spot to play him, but I think had we waited for him to rebuild some of his value we might have been able to turn him into a more valuable piece. His wRC the last three years were 151, 137, and 134. That is a lot of offensive production to lose. I don't know if you can say he just fell off a ****ing cliff. It's gotta be the foot, and those do heal.

Kelly is just a guy, but he is cost-controlled.

This doesn't fix any underlying problems with the offense and Lackey is one of the worst people in professional baseball.

It opens up space for Oscar, so I get it, but I just don't know.

Thing is, how much if that year comes at the expense of Taveras playing time?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-31-2014, 11:34 AM

Allen Craig was as close to a WS MVP in 2011 as you can get w/o winning the award. I'll always look kindly upon him for that.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2014, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Kelly is just a guy, but he is cost-controlled.

This doesn't fix any underlying problems with the offense and Lackey is one of the worst people in professional baseball.

It opens up space for Oscar, so I get it, but I just don't know.

The Cardinals made a $60 million profit last year and reduced payroll this year. I'm not worried about "just another guy" salary keeping us from competing.

There has to have been tension between Mo and Matheny over Craig/OT playing time. Maybe Mo finally said enough is enough?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-31-2014, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Thing is, how much if that year comes at the expense of Taveras playing time?

Biggest issue is Matheny. If they fired Matheny, this isn't an issue. Craig starts at first against every LHP, spells Holliday 20 starts per year, another 20 or so for Oscar, plus DH games in Interleague. You can also PH him late against LHP or when a weak hitter in up.

A smart manager should be able to get 570 PAs out of Holliday and Taveras, 500+ from Adams, and another 300 from Craig.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-31-2014, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

The Cardinals made a $60 million profit last year and reduced payroll this year. I'm not worried about "just another guy" salary keeping us from competing.

There has to have been tension between Mo and Matheny over Craig/OT playing time. Maybe Mo finally said enough is enough?

And if they made 60+ million last year and Matheny's contract is less than 10 for the duration, just fire the mother****er who's the real problem.

Swanman · 07-31-2014, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Sorry guys, I don't like this trade at all.

Craig was awful this year. Awful. But I think that's almost all due to his foot injury. I think if we gave him another year he could right things. Granted, we don't have a spot to play him, but I think had we waited for him to rebuild some of his value we might have been able to turn him into a more valuable piece. His wRC the last three years were 151, 137, and 134. That is a lot of offensive production to lose. I don't know if you can say he just fell off a ****ing cliff. It's gotta be the foot, and those do heal.

Kelly is just a guy, but he is cost-controlled.

This doesn't fix any underlying problems with the offense and Lackey is one of the worst people in professional baseball.

It opens up space for Oscar, so I get it, but I just don't know.

I don't hate the trade. Lackey is old but he is insanely cheap next year ($500k) and has been a good pitcher. Kelly just kinda sucks. He never gets into the late innings and misses a bat every couple months. Craig, while having some great numbers in the past, does have an extensive injury history and players like that seem to always be hurt. Not to mention Craig's contract right now is not a good one at all for the Cards given his falloff.

If Wacha comes back, your 5-man looks like this:

Waino
Wacha
Lynn
Lackey
Masterson

That's a damn sight better than the shitheap we have right now.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Allen Craig was as close to a WS MVP in 2011 as you can get w/o winning the award. I'll always look kindly upon him for that.

Just like Freese. They were essential pieces that brought us a higkly unlikely WS title. Played major roles in one of the best games evah. At least to me, They will always be welcome as Cardinals.

O.city · 07-31-2014, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Biggest issue is Matheny. If they fired Matheny, this isn't an issue. Craig starts at first against every LHP, spells Holliday 20 starts per year, another 20 or so for Oscar, plus DH games in Interleague. You can also PH him late against LHP or when a weak hitter in up.

A smart manager should be able to get 570 PAs out of Holliday and Taveras, 500+ from Adams, and another 300 from Craig.

Easily. However..

A. Matheny isn't going anywhere

B. I think they feel Craig is done and seeing a chance to move him they took it.

He was a big part of success here, but we don't really have a spot. With Piscotty and the others coming on, it would be cheaper and likely as successful to give the abs to them over Craig who has hit his ceiling and is likely on a downward trend anyway.

King_Chief_Fan · 07-31-2014, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

And if they made 60+ million last year and Matheny's contract is less than 10 for the duration, just fire the mother****er who's the real problem.

Matheny's favorite son crap has got to go.

11-04-2013, 05:32 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3129627 VARSITY	**Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread ** 2011 WS Championship 2012 one win from another WS 2013 two wins from another WS title 2014? This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons. Reached three World Series in the last decade, and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005. Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager. Three million attendance? Take it to the bank. 60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team. Only one of the last 14 seasons has been a losing one. Last edited by BigRedChief; 01-19-2014 at 02:36 PM..
Posts: 79,031

07-31-2014, 11:23 AM	#2312
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	Sorry guys, I don't like this trade at all. Craig was awful this year. Awful. But I think that's almost all due to his foot injury. I think if we gave him another year he could right things. Granted, we don't have a spot to play him, but I think had we waited for him to rebuild some of his value we might have been able to turn him into a more valuable piece. His wRC the last three years were 151, 137, and 134. That is a lot of offensive production to lose. I don't know if you can say he just fell off a ****ing cliff. It's gotta be the foot, and those do heal. Kelly is just a guy, but he is cost-controlled. This doesn't fix any underlying problems with the offense and Lackey is one of the worst people in professional baseball. It opens up space for Oscar, so I get it, but I just don't know. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,826

07-31-2014, 11:28 AM	#2313
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	__________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,826

07-31-2014, 11:29 AM	#2315
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2734064	Basically traded cost controlled pitcher for cost controlled RFer who you hope becomes a big bat in your lineup. It may have been the foot on Craig. But with another year of healing, is another year of age on a guy who already has an injury history that's piling up. Makes me wonder if they think te foot is what it is and won't improve.
Posts: 81,256

07-31-2014, 11:34 AM	#2318
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	Allen Craig was as close to a WS MVP in 2011 as you can get w/o winning the award. I'll always look kindly upon him for that. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,826