Rand defends Gretz; rips JoPo's article

[shaneo69]

RAND: Sympathy for the voters
Feb 08, 2007, 4:24:41 AM by Jonathan Rand

I’m never sure whether to be amused or disgusted by the criticism directed at Hall of Fame voters in any sport whenever a local favorite falls short of induction.

If all the fans and media critics in every city could get all their favorites enshrined, every Hall of Fame would have so many members as to render itself meaningless. If you elect 1,000 players, what you’d have is a gigantic card show, not a Hall of Fame.

Certainly, anybody has the right to question a selection or omission for any Hall of Fame. But why does the criticism have to become personal and even slanderous?

When our own Buck O’Neill was passed over for Cooperstown by a special Negro Leagues committee, we read about some never-substantiated personal grudge that supposedly derailed his chances.

Now that former Chiefs linebacker Derrick Thomas has fallen short of the Pro Football Hall of Fame for the third time, a local columnist belittles the election committee as a “40-man party crew,” as if there’s something reckless or inebriated about its decision making. And, actually, there are two women on the committee now.

This is reminiscent of Lawrence Taylor. The former Giants linebacker, convinced he might be denied election because of a disgraceful series of drug arrests, claimed the electors were hypocrites because most, he said, were drunks chasing little girls on Miami Beach. Because the Pro Football Hall of Fame takes personal behavior off the table, Taylor was a first-ballot inductee in 1999.

This is some party. As a former Hall of Fame elector, I can assure you that serving on that committee is an honor. It’s also a pain in the butt. You spend the Saturday before the Super Bowl, your only free day of the week, cooped up in a hotel meeting room listening to presentations and discussions for all finalists, which numbered 17 this year.

Personally, I would rather walk barefoot on the ice in my driveway than listen to a one-hour discussion over whether former Commissioner Paul Tagliabue belongs in the Hall of Fame. It’s beyond me why you would enshrine an executive because he did for the league — albeit very well — exactly what he was hired to do.

The vast majority of the electors have watched pro football for decades, diligently prepare their homework and care passionately about voting for the right people.

A case for a candidate that might seem overpowering to the average fan may be badly flawed in the eyes of voters who know a sport inside and out. Once you’re caught with gaping holes in your argument, your candidate is finished. If Kansas City representative Bob Gretz can’t make a convincing case for Thomas or any other candidate, nobody can.

The decisions are difficult because you’re often trying to distinguish between truly excellent football players and the all-time greats. This is the border Thomas keeps trying to cross.

Some votes are philosophical. How can you exclude Ray Guy, indisputably the greatest punter of all time? The prevailing sentiment is that a guy who trots in and kicks the ball six times a game and seldom gets his uniform dirty is not a Hall of Famer.

The seamheads who vote for the Baseball Hall of Fame fancy themselves the best informed and most discriminating voters for any Hall, and maybe they are. But they absorb plenty of cheap shots, too.

There was a lengthy Sunday opinion story in the New York Times a few years ago claiming that former Boston Red Sox outfielder Jim Rice keeps getting excluded because of his contentious relationship with reporters. (My few encounters with him were fine.) Nowhere was it mentioned that pitcher Steve Carlton, possibly the most media-hostile star in the history of baseball, was elected to Cooperstown on the first ballot.

Hall of Fame electors must have thick skins, though I must admit even I became offended once. An NFL ex-star once approached me and said he’d been told that he wasn’t in the Hall of Fame because I didn’t like him. He added that he couldn’t understand this because we’d gotten along so well during his playing days.

I never knew the man during his playing days. But you know what? He made almost as much sense as most of the people who rip Hall of Fame voters.

The opinions offered in this column do not necessarily reflect those of Carl Peterson.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/02...or_the_voters/

[Hammock Parties]

What an ungrateful SOB. Any fan would be honored to be voting on HOF induction.

[shaneo69]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

What an ungrateful SOB. Any fan would be honored to be voting on HOF induction.

Yeah, but the average frozen caveman lawyer football fan can't comprehend the magnitude of what it takes to vote for football HOF candidates.

[grandllama]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Several of the voters defended Gretz too. Everybody involved said he did a fine job. Derrick Thomas not getting in has NOTHING to do with Bob Gretz.

That may be true, but let's let JoPo have a stab at it next year.

[Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan]

Originally Posted by shaneo69

BS. Peter King came out and admitted that Wehrli and all St. Louis Cardinal fans should thank Bernie Miklasz for getting RW into the HOF.

Miklasz did a great job; Gretz did not. Peter puffer King brings up DT's supposedly one-dimensional play. As Dr. Z said back in 2005, the voters weren't thinking about him being one dimensional until dumbass Gretz brought it up.

That's hilarious if you think it's Bob Gretz's fault that DT didn't make the hall of fame.

[Chiefnj]

Originally Posted by grandllama

That may be true, but let's let JoPo have a stab at it next year.

Can't Gosselin do it? He seems to be respected nationally.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

Can't Gosselin do it? He seems to be respected nationally.

Gosselin held Bob Gretz' post with the Chiefs at one time, but that was before Derrick Thomas.

[Baby Lee]

If all the fans and media critics in every city could get all their favorites enshrined, every Hall of Fame would have so many members as to render itself meaningless. If you elect 1,000 players, what you’d have is a gigantic card show, not a Hall of Fame.

BS, there are only two players I've watched [first person] on 'my favorite' teams that I felt HAD to be in the HoF, George Brett and Derrick Thomas.

Will and Tony may in the future be 1st balloters, but I haven't yet been convinced they are more deserving.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by shaneo69

Fine - mediocre, okay, average, adequate.

Just like the Chiefs entire organization.

Petro flat-out asked him if Gretz was the cause. King dismissed it as absurd, as do most rational, clear-thinking people.

[Chiefnj]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Gosselin held Bob Gretz' post with the Chiefs at one time, but that was before Derrick Thomas.

Does the presenter have to be from the city the player played in, or can any committee member do it? I just don't believe Gretz has national recognition.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

Does the presenter have to be from the city the player played in, or can any committee member do it? I just don't believe Gretz has national recognition.

No idea.

[grandllama]

Originally Posted by Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan

That's hilarious if you think it's Bob Gretz's fault that DT didn't make the hall of fame.

I don't necessarily think it's Gretz's fault... maybe his approach. I think there needs to be more passion involved, and although I respect the hell out of Gretz for calling 'em as he sees 'em, but maybe that ain't the right approach in this situation. I can't see Gretz being as impassioned as JoPo or several other local media types.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by grandllama

I don't necessarily think it's Gretz's fault... maybe his approach. I think there needs to be more passion involved, and although I respect the hell out of Gretz for calling 'em as he sees 'em, but maybe that ain't the right approach in this situation. I can't see Gretz being as impassioned as JoPo or several other local media types.

The other members of the voting committee don't respect Derrick Thomas. Period, end of story. Bob Gretz has zero bearing on the situation.

[grandllama]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Petro flat-out asked him if Gretz was the cause. King dismissed it as absurd, as do most rational, clear-thinking people.

I've been awol during most of this discussion... am I to take (without being a direct slam on you) that most 'rational, clear-thinking' people don't feel DT should be in the hall?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by grandllama

I've been awol during most of this discussion... am I to take (without being a direct slam on you) that most 'rational, clear-thinking' people don't feel DT should be in the hall?

Not at all.

But they certainly don't blame Bob Gretz for it either.

[grandllama]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The other members of the voting committee don't respect Derrick Thomas. Period, end of story. Bob Gretz has zero bearing on the situation.

I've read Gretz' speech in the past. It makes a very clear case for DT, but lacks passion. It is everything I respect in Gretz as a journalist, but everything I dislike when it comes to persuasive arguments.

If people don't respect DT, you've got to persuade them. Persuasion is not in Gretz's repertoire.