MU ****The OFFICIAL 2013 Mizzou Tigers Basketball Thread**** - Page 394

**Saul Good** · 01-09-2013, 08:42 PM

MIZ-SEC

duncan_idaho · 03-24-2014, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerinMo

It's going to take a good coach to turn this mess around whether you think we can get one or not. If not marshall then they have to do something.

1) I think describing it as a "mess" is an extreme exaggeration. It's not in great shape, but a "mess" is what Quin Snyder left.

2) I agree that they can find a better coach than Haith and eventually will have to try. But it isn't going to happen as soon as some would like (I really think it will be at least two years). And many of the favored targets are not realistic (no matter how much money Missouri offers).

O.city · 03-24-2014, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

1) I think describing it as a "mess" is an extreme exaggeration. It's not in great shape, but a "mess" is what Quin Snyder left.

2) I agree that they can find a better coach than Haith and eventually will have to try. But it isn't going to happen as soon as some would like (I really think it will be at least two years). And many of the favored targets are not realistic (no matter how much money Missouri offers).

It may not be a mess now, but 2 more years of Haith and it will be.

duncan_idaho · 03-24-2014, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Just talk-radio bullshit, but his name was being lobbed about for Wake Forest, which is far from a power.

If he'd listen to Wake, I'd like to think that our shit show would have a puncher's chance.

If Missouri had just fired Haith, I'm sure he'd be mentioned for that job, too, on talk radio. Don't think he'd be a real candidate at either spot. Or at oSu.

I really think he sticks at Wichita until Syracuse or Indiana or North Carolina comes calling (or someone else in that territory).

duncan_idaho · 03-24-2014, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

It may not be a mess now, but 2 more years of Haith and it will be.

Depends on how many of the current players transfer if he leaves.

In two years:

Seniors
Cam Biedshied (top 50 4 star G/F)
Ryan Rosburg (3 star, bench guy)

Juniors
Jonathan Williams III (top 50 4 star F)
Wes Clark (top 75 4 star)
Torren Jones (3-star, obvious physical gifts)
Shane Rector (likely gone)

Sophomores
Namon Wright (top 100 4 star 2 guard)
Jakeenan Gant (top 50 4 star F)

That's not a bad roster situation to walk into, at all. Especially compared to some of the shit we've seen in Columbia during the last two coaching transitions.

O.city · 03-24-2014, 02:58 PM

I don't know about the sophmores per say, but after watching some of JWIII this year, I don't think he ever reaches that status.

BlackHelicopters · 03-24-2014, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Depends on how many of the current players transfer if he leaves.

In two years:

Seniors
Cam Biedshied (top 50 4 star G/F)
Ryan Rosburg (3 star, bench guy)

Juniors
Jonathan Williams III (top 50 4 star F)
Wes Clark (top 75 4 star)
Torren Jones (3-star, obvious physical gifts)
Shane Rector (likely gone)

Sophomores
Namon Wright (top 100 4 star 2 guard)
Jakeenan Gant (top 50 4 star F)

That's not a bad roster situation to walk into, at all. Especially compared to some of the shit we've seen in Columbia during the last two coaching transitions.

But. Can Haith coach these guys?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-24-2014, 03:03 PM

It bears repeating that Jabari Brown is the only player who has improved in Haith's entire tenure.

Pressey regressed. Ross stayed the same. Clarkson regressed as the season wore on, as did J3 and Clark.

Even if the roster is full of talented guys, the next coach is going to have to be able to get far more out of their ability than Haith. He's not just terrible during a game and at getting a team to play cohesively; he can't develop basketball players.

Pepe Silvia · 03-24-2014, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop

But. Can Haith coach these guys?

No, he can't.

duncan_idaho · 03-24-2014, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop

But. Can Haith coach these guys?

Coach them to be better offensive players? Yeah, I think he can.

Marcus Denmon
Kim English
Ricardo Ratliffe
Mike Dixon
Alex Oriakhi
Laurence Bowers
Jabari Brown

All became much better offensive players under Haith's direction. Some drastically so.

Coach them to be better defenders? That's the real question.

Bigger point I was trying to make is that a new coach, taking over in two years, could conceivably inherit a deep roster that is balanced and features a lot of highly rated players.

BlackHelicopters · 03-24-2014, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerinMo

No, he can't.

The root of the problem. Haith.

duncan_idaho · 03-24-2014, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It bears repeating that Jabari Brown is the only player who has improved in Haith's entire tenure.

Pressey regressed. Ross stayed the same. Clarkson regressed as the season wore on, as did J3 and Clark.

Even if the roster is full of talented guys, the next coach is going to have to be able to get far more out of their ability than Haith. He's not just terrible during a game and at getting a team to play cohesively; he can't develop basketball players.

Strongly disagree that Brown is the only player that improved under Haith.

ALL of those seniors AND Mike Dixon AND Phil Pressey improved tremendously in Haith's first year. Oriakhi and Bowers both improved a lot last year. And Brown improved a ton this year.

I don't really buy into an in-season regression argument for freshmen. Higher competition level and the freshman wall is usually more of a factor there.

Pressey was not as good as a junior as he was as a sophomore, but he also had much less help around him at the guard spot. If Mike Dixon can stick to having sex with girls who want to have sex with him, I think Pressey's career ends on a MUCH different note.

Clarkson... again. Maybe some regression. Also maybe some tired legs from having to play 35+ minutes every night. And maybe a step up in competition level/scouting/athleticism of opponents.

duncan_idaho · 03-24-2014, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't know about the sophmores per say, but after watching some of JWIII this year, I don't think he ever reaches that status.

What status?

I'd guess he's a 10 and 7 and 1.5-2 block guy next year.

Maybe peaks as a 13 and 8 guy as a junior and senior. 12-15 pounds of muscle on that frame should help him finish a lot more consistently around the rim.

I don't think he's ever a superstar, but he's going to be a productive player.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan · 03-24-2014, 05:16 PM

You all stay the hell away from Kim Anderson.

*rassenfrassen D-1'ers.*

Pepe Silvia · 03-24-2014, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

1) I think describing it as a "mess" is an extreme exaggeration. It's not in great shape, but a "mess" is what Quin Snyder left.

2) I agree that they can find a better coach than Haith and eventually will have to try. But it isn't going to happen as soon as some would like (I really think it will be at least two years). And many of the favored targets are not realistic (no matter how much money Missouri offers).

When Rosburg is your starting center its a mess.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-24-2014, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Strongly disagree that Brown is the only player that improved under Haith.

ALL of those seniors AND Mike Dixon AND Phil Pressey improved tremendously in Haith's first year. Oriakhi and Bowers both improved a lot last year. And Brown improved a ton this year.

I don't really buy into an in-season regression argument for freshmen. Higher competition level and the freshman wall is usually more of a factor there.

Pressey was not as good as a junior as he was as a sophomore, but he also had much less help around him at the guard spot. If Mike Dixon can stick to having sex with girls who want to have sex with him, I think Pressey's career ends on a MUCH different note.

Clarkson... again. Maybe some regression. Also maybe some tired legs from having to play 35+ minutes every night. And maybe a step up in competition level/scouting/athleticism of opponents.

The seniors played better as seniors than as juniors, but I don't think any of that was due to Haith's influence. They were motivated from within. You could have put petegz on the bench of that Missouri team and they still win 30 games. Bowers added a three point shot, but his defense declined, perhaps due to his knee injury.

What I've seen is that every player that has put multiple years underneath Haith's system has regressed or stagnated in year two, save Brown, and most of those who have played full seasons under him (Clarkson, Keion Bell) haven't improved either.

Tony Criswell was worse.
Rosburg was no better
Ross was the same maddening player
Clarkson became worse and worse as the year progressed
Neither Clark nor Williams improved

I don't see indications of improvement on the macro or micro level.

01-09-2013, 08:42 PM
Saul Good Quit your bullshit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bored of winning Casino cash: $10052799	**The OFFICIAL 2013 Mizzou Tigers Basketball Thread** MIZ-SEC
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03-24-2014, 02:58 PM	#5900
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2764064	I don't know about the sophmores per say, but after watching some of JWIII this year, I don't think he ever reaches that status.
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03-24-2014, 03:03 PM	#5902
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	It bears repeating that Jabari Brown is the only player who has improved in Haith's entire tenure. Pressey regressed. Ross stayed the same. Clarkson regressed as the season wore on, as did J3 and Clark. Even if the roster is full of talented guys, the next coach is going to have to be able to get far more out of their ability than Haith. He's not just terrible during a game and at getting a team to play cohesively; he can't develop basketball players. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
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03-24-2014, 05:16 PM	#5908
Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan I am Number Six Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Columbia, MD, USA Casino cash: $1989000	You all stay the hell away from Kim Anderson. rassenfrassen D-1'ers. __________________ One of the lowest PPD of any of the original members of the Planet . . . and proud of it. My web site My writer's page
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