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Old 06-01-2013, 10:43 AM   #1
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Pardon? I would think that should be a rather pertinent question. The vast majority of the electricity we consume isn't generated by hamster wheels and pixie dust.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:46 AM   #2
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Pardon? I would think that should be a rather pertinent question. The vast majority of the electricity we consume isn't generated by hamster wheels and pixie dust.
oh bullshit ... this is just you trying to turn this into another thread about oil. Nothing more.

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Old 06-01-2013, 10:49 AM   #3
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oh bullshit ... this is just you trying to turn this into another thread about oil. Nothing more.

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Not at all. I love electric vehicles. But, I also realize that very few people realize that we don't exactly have a massive surplus of electrical generation in this country.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:41 AM   #4
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:29 AM   #5
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I'm still not a fan of this 1/2 assed company using Tesla's name...
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:59 PM   #6
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I'm still not a fan of this 1/2 assed company using Tesla's name...
I myself find it SHOCKING!
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:25 PM   #7
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I'm still not a fan of this 1/2 assed company using Tesla's name...
You must have hated that 80s band then.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:14 PM   #8
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I doubt seriously this will ever happen. There is too much ****ing money to be made off combustion engines. A niche probably. But not widespread at all
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:14 PM   #9
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Given that photovoltaic production has followed Moore's Law, they should be able to provide the majority of the world's energy needs within fifteen years. Supplement that with nuclear energy, wind energy, and hydrocarbons, and it seems like a wise investment to me.
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:36 PM   #10
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Given that photovoltaic production has followed Moore's Law, they should be able to provide the majority of the world's energy needs within fifteen years. Supplement that with nuclear energy, wind energy, and hydrocarbons, and it seems like a wise investment to me.
Unfortunately that's not true, as much as I wish it was. PV cells have theoretical efficiency limits. It would take massive magical leaps in tech that no one has any clue about at this point for us to reach even 80%. That is just in THEORY... in real world production terms you will be lucky to see production of cells that can hit 60% in our lifetime. Of course that is a huge jump from what we have right now on the market.

So let's play with the numbers a bit... I'll give you a TRULY 50% efficient panel (which is completely made up and not likely to hit the market in any significant quantity for 20 years). Ok now let's look at how much energy is in sunlight. The best estimate for a sunny day is around 1KW/m2 per hour. So, now let's take into account the number of hours of sunlight per day average for an average American city.. about 5 hours(this varies WILDLY but mostly falls in the 4 to 6 range).

So that leaves us with a whopping 5KW/m2 per day. oops. but we need to cut that in half(50% efficiency) now we get 2.5KW/m2 per day.

Ok now let's go back to the Tesla. The average American drives 15000 miles a year. That comes out to 11 to 12 KW hours per day. So JUST to power your car you need about 5 m2 of solar panel (again, mythical super solar panels). 50 sq ft of panels just to run YOUR car.

I'm all about alternative energy and diversification... but solar is a really shitty source.
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:40 PM   #11
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Unfortunately that's not true, as much as I wish it was. PV cells have theoretical efficiency limits. It would take massive magical leaps in tech that no one has any clue about at this point for us to reach even 80%. That is just in THEORY... in real world production terms you will be lucky to see production of cells that can hit 60% in our lifetime. Of course that is a huge jump from what we have right now on the market.

So let's play with the numbers a bit... I'll give you a TRULY 50% efficient panel (which is completely made up and not likely to hit the market in any significant quantity for 20 years). Ok now let's look at how much energy is in sunlight. The best estimate for a sunny day is around 1KW/m2 per hour. So, now let's take into account the number of hours of sunlight per day average for an average American city.. about 5 hours(this varies WILDLY but mostly falls in the 4 to 6 range).

So that leaves us with a whopping 5KW/m2 per day. oops. but we need to cut that in half(50% efficiency) now we get 2.5KW/m2 per day.

Ok now let's go back to the Tesla. The average American drives 15000 miles a year. That comes out to 11 to 12 KW hours per day. So JUST to power your car you need about 5 m2 of solar panel (again, mythical super solar panels). 50 sq ft of panels just to run YOUR car.

I'm all about alternative energy and diversification... but solar is a really shitty source.
How efficient is the average panel right now?
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:43 PM   #12
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How efficient is the average panel right now?
That's hard to say. It can vary by A LOT from panel to panel. But 20% is a good guess for the very very very best shiny new commercial grade panels. And we are talking super high end crazy expensive stuff to get to 20%. Your average home panel is lucky to hit 16%.
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:35 PM   #13
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That's hard to say. It can vary by A LOT from panel to panel. But 20% is a good guess for the very very very best shiny new commercial grade panels. And we are talking super high end crazy expensive stuff to get to 20%. Your average home panel is lucky to hit 16%.
This suggests the kind of exponential growth akin to Moore's Law:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...daily-chart-19

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that there is a theoretical limit to the efficiency of solar cells.

Now, if they are 20% efficient, does that mean that they are absorbing 20% of the incandescent energy from the sun? If so, how large of a panel would I need for a watt of energy?
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:24 PM   #14
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:55 PM   #15
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