Chiefs Glenn Dorsey's role in the 3-4 - Page 5

**Bowser** · 02-27-2009, 02:01 PM

With Vrabel coming in, I think we can officially say we are going to be a 3-4 team in '09. This leaves Dorsey kind of in positional limbo, according to those who know D-Line play better than I.

What will his role be? No way is he going to be a Haloti Ngata type at tackle, so end it is. What is the problem with Dorsey at end in a 3-4? He couldn't possibly be anymore out of position there than the way they used him last year, right? And isn't one of his strengths rushing the passer?

Please enlighten those of us not as adept at d-line, 4-3/3-4 play.

kcbubb · 02-27-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suds79

You know you're probably right.

But right now I think Pioli & Haley are far more concerned with implementing the system they want rather than letting their philosophy be dictated by a top 5 pick just last year who they had nothing to do with.

Dorsey will just have to be stout at DE and work with the position. There's no other choice.

If knowing we're going to a 3-4 and we could do it all over again would we pick somebody different? Yeah probably.

But hindsight is 20/20. Shoot if we could play that game we would of either made a move for Ryan or drafted Flacco.

It wasn't just Dorsey. We have been drafting for the 4-3 for 3 years.

I'm disappointed because (don't shoot!) I think we were close to being a top 10 defense in the 4-3. We were the 13th ranked defense in 2007. We lost Jared Allen and then we flopped. The secondary was actually upgraded. But with a few pass rushers, even situational, I think we could have been close. 3rd down is what killed us.

crazycoffey · 02-27-2009, 05:26 PM

Vrabel LOLB / D. Williams / DJ / Curry ROLB
behind Dorsey / Shaun Rodgers / Tank or Turk

Mecca · 02-27-2009, 05:31 PM

Curry's a middle backer in a 3-4.

Hammock Parties · 02-27-2009, 05:34 PM

Name one 3-4 DE that is an impact player besides Big Dick Seymour, who has a totally different skillset than Dorsey.

Glenn is ****ed.

kstater · 02-27-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I really think that Vrabel is being brought in to be a situational pass rusher. I wouldn't expect that we go to a 3-4 as our base defensive set as it doesn't fit our front 7 personnel very well. I could see using a hybrid or occasional look, but not as our basic defensive set.

Vrabel, as I see it, is a 3rd down DE in a 4-3, and would probably be fairly effective at that at this stage of his career. His intangibles also are a big bonus.

So the Chiefs aren't going 3-4, but decided to trade for a 34 year old linebacker to convert to a new position that doesn't play most snaps and comes from a different scheme?

Mecca · 02-27-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kstater

So the Chiefs aren't going 3-4, but decided to trade for a 34 year old linebacker to convert to a new position that doesn't play most snaps and comes from a different scheme?

Ha that's what I was thinking, this is going to be a 3-4 team it's time to accept that.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-27-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyFTW!

You don't? That's news to Pioli, who drafted Richard Seymour 6th overall (not quite top-five, but if they had been picking fifth they still would have taken him, without a doubt. Plus, Ty Warren went 13th overall). Seems to me that you don't realize how important DEs are in the 3-4.

You stupid sonofabitch, Seymour was drafted as a 4-3 DT. STFD and

.

Hammock Parties · 02-27-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Ha that's what I was thinking, this is going to be a 3-4 team it's time to accept that.

Why else would they go after Haynesworth, too?

ChiefsCountry · 02-27-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

Why else would they go after Haynesworth, too?

Raise the price up on him.

Hammock Parties · 02-27-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Raise the price up on him.

I don't believe that for a second.

tmax63 · 02-27-2009, 06:42 PM

Why is Dorsey not considered a good prospect at NT in a 3-4? I have been reading the arguments but to my way of thinking being short is an advantage to get under those guards and centers. His weight, which how much he could add without losing all his quicknes is unknown, would be a disadvantage but I would think his height might be an asset if he doesn't play straight up. Best natural position? I doubt it, but I could see him doing alright there.

bdeg · 02-27-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

It wasn't just Dorsey. We have been drafting for the 4-3 for 3 years.

I'm disappointed because (don't shoot!) I think we were close to being a top 10 defense in the 4-3. We were the 13th ranked defense in 2007. We lost Jared Allen and then we flopped. The secondary was actually upgraded. But with a few pass rushers, even situational, I think we could have been close. 3rd down is what killed us.

You're right. Improved secondary. Bad line and linebackers. Sounds like a good time to switch to me.

Hammock Parties · 02-27-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmax63

Why is Dorsey not considered a good prospect at NT in a 3-4? I have been reading the arguments but to my way of thinking being short is an advantage to get under those guards and centers. His weight, which how much he could add without losing all his quicknes is unknown, would be a disadvantage but I would think his height might be an asset if he doesn't play straight up. Best natural position? I doubt it, but I could see him doing alright there.

He's not nearly strong enough.

bdeg · 02-27-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmax63

Why is Dorsey not considered a good prospect at NT in a 3-4? I have been reading the arguments but to my way of thinking being short is an advantage to get under those guards and centers. His weight, which how much he could add without losing all his quicknes is unknown, would be a disadvantage but I would think his height might be an asset if he doesn't play straight up. Best natural position? I doubt it, but I could see him doing alright there.

He's very light for the position, and it would waste all his natural quickness. His lack of height is an advantage for getting under blockers but it means he can't add more weight.

BradyFTW! · 02-27-2009, 07:00 PM

I watched Dorsey some in college, and read a lot of the scouting for him before last year's draft, and it seems to me that, above and beyond everything else, 1 gap is far better suited to his strengths than 2 gap. Most 3-4 defenses are 2 gap, so I think that's what a lot of people are referring to when they say that Dorsey wouldn't be very good in the 3-4 (he's also really short for a 3-4 DE).

If the new guys in charge are trying to replicate the Pats' system, then you can expect to see predominantly 2 gap, which probably wouldn't be good for Dorsey. 2 gap is all about holding the line until the back makes his move, then shedding the block quickly and effectively. Sounds like Dorsey's strength is more in a 1 gap system, where it's less about holding out at the point of attack and more about filling your gap, pushing through the line, and disrupting. There are predominantly 1 gap 3-4s out there, though (Dallas and San Diego were last year, off the top of my head). Dorsey's not ideally suited to it, but with proper scheming his strengths could be pretty effectively utilized in a 3-4.

02-27-2009, 02:01 PM
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $3451616	Glenn Dorsey's role in the 3-4 With Vrabel coming in, I think we can officially say we are going to be a 3-4 team in '09. This leaves Dorsey kind of in positional limbo, according to those who know D-Line play better than I. What will his role be? No way is he going to be a Haloti Ngata type at tackle, so end it is. What is the problem with Dorsey at end in a 3-4? He couldn't possibly be anymore out of position there than the way they used him last year, right? And isn't one of his strengths rushing the passer? Please enlighten those of us not as adept at d-line, 4-3/3-4 play.
Posts: 100,637

02-27-2009, 05:26 PM	#62
crazycoffey .......... Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $5197901	Vrabel LOLB / D. Williams / DJ / Curry ROLB behind Dorsey / Shaun Rodgers / Tank or Turk
Posts: 28,330

02-27-2009, 05:31 PM	#63
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2627050	Curry's a middle backer in a 3-4.
Posts: 110,906

02-27-2009, 05:34 PM	#64
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4720478	Name one 3-4 DE that is an impact player besides Big Dick Seymour, who has a totally different skillset than Dorsey. Glenn is ****ed. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 277,848

02-27-2009, 06:42 PM	#71
tmax63 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Colorado Casino cash: $3250400	Why is Dorsey not considered a good prospect at NT in a 3-4? I have been reading the arguments but to my way of thinking being short is an advantage to get under those guards and centers. His weight, which how much he could add without losing all his quicknes is unknown, would be a disadvantage but I would think his height might be an asset if he doesn't play straight up. Best natural position? I doubt it, but I could see him doing alright there. __________________ An armed member of society is a citizen, an unarmed member is a subject.
Posts: 3,807

02-27-2009, 07:00 PM	#75
BradyFTW! Starter Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $10004900	I watched Dorsey some in college, and read a lot of the scouting for him before last year's draft, and it seems to me that, above and beyond everything else, 1 gap is far better suited to his strengths than 2 gap. Most 3-4 defenses are 2 gap, so I think that's what a lot of people are referring to when they say that Dorsey wouldn't be very good in the 3-4 (he's also really short for a 3-4 DE). If the new guys in charge are trying to replicate the Pats' system, then you can expect to see predominantly 2 gap, which probably wouldn't be good for Dorsey. 2 gap is all about holding the line until the back makes his move, then shedding the block quickly and effectively. Sounds like Dorsey's strength is more in a 1 gap system, where it's less about holding out at the point of attack and more about filling your gap, pushing through the line, and disrupting. There are predominantly 1 gap 3-4s out there, though (Dallas and San Diego were last year, off the top of my head). Dorsey's not ideally suited to it, but with proper scheming his strengths could be pretty effectively utilized in a 3-4.
Posts: 124