Other Sports Should steroid use determine who is in the HOF?

whoman69 · 06-19-2012, 02:42 PM

With the recent Roger Clemens decision, whether players that have been involved with steroids should be part of the baseball HOF has come back into the discussion. Thus far the writers have sent a resounding no to that answer.

Keep in mind that part of the criteria for the baseball hall deals with off the field issues as well. Players like Orlando Cepeda were kept out of the hall for years because of their connections to drugs while borderline players like Keith Hernandez did not even come close to election. The All-time hits king is not even eligible because of betting on baseball.

BTW, there is no Gaz option. If you don't like baseball or don't care about this issue, why are you even reading this?

tredadda · 06-19-2012, 02:47 PM

I think it should be a determining criteria. The standard needs to be uniform across the board though. Although he was a great player I would personally remove Ty Cobb if you want to start using character as a criteria to join.

Reerun_KC · 06-19-2012, 02:48 PM

No....

Its baseball.. Steriods mean as much to Baseball as the American Flag does to the United States...

Fansy the Famous Bard · 06-19-2012, 02:50 PM

Steroids or not, those people still went out and did what they did against others using the same shit.

thomas · 06-19-2012, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

Steroids or not, those people still went out and did what they did against others using the same shit.

Exactly everyone was juicing.

beach tribe · 06-19-2012, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

Steroids or not, those people still went out and did what they did against others using the same shit.

Steroids obviously do not help out pitchers quite as much as they help out batters. There are some players out there who absolutely would have not made it into the HOF without them, and they are mostly the ones who didn't get caught. Clemons would have gotten into the Hall without Steroids.

Deberg_1990 · 06-19-2012, 02:53 PM

Why have HRs gone down in recent years compared to the 90s and early 2000's??

whoman69 · 06-19-2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Why have HRs gone down in recent years compared to the 90s and early 2000's??

There are probably a lot of factors involved. Average hitters are not getting $10 million contracts. Average pitchers are. Steroids, umpires, the ball could all be factors in that. Baseball never really studies that and we wouldn't know for years anyway, by which time the cycle may run back to the hitters.

blaise · 06-19-2012, 02:57 PM

Bonds will get in because the writers don't want to be called racists. Once they let him in it's going to allow Clemens and others to get in.

whoman69 · 06-19-2012, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blaise

Bonds will get in because the writers don't want to be called racists. Once they let him in it's going to allow Clemens and others to get in.

Not a chance that will have anything to do with it.

whoman69 · 06-19-2012, 03:10 PM

There was an interesting argument on Dan Patrick this morning. He essentially torpedoes the argument that players like Bonds and Clemens were HOF worthy before they started taking. He said that if you're worthy, you don't cheat. Pretty convincing argument IMO. He pointed out that these players made a choice because the union nixed testing all those years so they couldn't get caught. The players who made the choice to take steroids did so in the hopes of making more money. Clemens career earnings before coming to the Blue Jays, which is when most agree that if he used that is when he started, was $30 million. He earned $120 million after that. Bonds earned $7 million prior to coming to the Giants, and $180 million after.

BIG_DADDY · 06-19-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

There was an interesting argument on Dan Patrick this morning. He essentially torpedoes the argument that players like Bonds and Clemens were HOF worthy before they started taking. He said that if you're worthy, you don't cheat. Pretty convincing argument IMO. He pointed out that these players made a choice because the union nixed testing all those years so they couldn't get caught. The players who made the choice to take steroids did so in the hopes of making more money. Clemens career earnings before coming to the Blue Jays, which is when most agree that if he used that is when he started, was $30 million. He earned $120 million after that. Bonds earned $7 million prior to coming to the Giants, and $180 million after.

**** Dan Patrick and **** the media.

Deberg_1990 · 06-19-2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

There was an interesting argument on Dan Patrick this morning. He essentially torpedoes the argument that players like Bonds and Clemens were HOF worthy before they started taking. He said that if you're worthy, you don't cheat. Pretty convincing argument IMO. He pointed out that these players made a choice because the union nixed testing all those years so they couldn't get caught. The players who made the choice to take steroids did so in the hopes of making more money. Clemens career earnings before coming to the Blue Jays, which is when most agree that if he used that is when he started, was $30 million. He earned $120 million after that. Bonds earned $7 million prior to coming to the Giants, and $180 million after.

I think this is a pretty interesting take.....

Is it any coincidence that the Roids era took off at the same time as salaries started to skyrocket??

KC_Connection · 06-19-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

There was an interesting argument on Dan Patrick this morning. He essentially torpedoes the argument that players like Bonds and Clemens were HOF worthy before they started taking. He said that if you're worthy, you don't cheat. Pretty convincing argument IMO.

In what world is keeping up with your competition by taking drugs that weren't against the rules "cheating?"

The only thing Bonds and Clemens are guilty of is being that much better than everyone else while taking the same drugs. They shouldn't be punished for that.

cosmo20002 · 06-19-2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

In what world is keeping up with your competition by taking drugs that weren't against the rules "cheating?"

The only thing Bonds and Clemens are guilty of is being that much better than everyone else while taking the same drugs. They shouldn't be punished for that.

They were against the rules. Illegal use of controlled substances was against the rules.

And Clemens I don't believe has ever been convicted of nor admitted steroid use. Bonds has admitted use.

View Poll Results: Should steroids be a consideration for HOF voting?
No, steroids are not an issue	12	22.64%
Yes, but not an eliminating factor	17	32.08%
Yes, steroids undermined the game	24	45.28%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

06-19-2012, 02:42 PM	Topic Starter
whoman69 The Master Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Marion, IA Casino cash: $10004925	Should steroid use determine who is in the HOF? With the recent Roger Clemens decision, whether players that have been involved with steroids should be part of the baseball HOF has come back into the discussion. Thus far the writers have sent a resounding no to that answer. Keep in mind that part of the criteria for the baseball hall deals with off the field issues as well. Players like Orlando Cepeda were kept out of the hall for years because of their connections to drugs while borderline players like Keith Hernandez did not even come close to election. The All-time hits king is not even eligible because of betting on baseball. BTW, there is no Gaz option. If you don't like baseball or don't care about this issue, why are you even reading this?
Posts: 23,101

06-19-2012, 02:47 PM	#2
tredadda Three-Pat Join Date: May 2011 Location: Colorado Springs Casino cash: $1635053	I think it should be a determining criteria. The standard needs to be uniform across the board though. Although he was a great player I would personally remove Ty Cobb if you want to start using character as a criteria to join.
Posts: 17,133

06-19-2012, 02:48 PM	#3
Reerun_KC Rock Chalk Jayhawks! KU!!! Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $8301160	No.... Its baseball.. Steriods mean as much to Baseball as the American Flag does to the United States...
Posts: 934

06-19-2012, 02:50 PM	#4
Fansy the Famous Bard I'm with the Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $2156440	Steroids or not, those people still went out and did what they did against others using the same shit. __________________ Hi.
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06-19-2012, 02:53 PM	#7
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3784454	Why have HRs gone down in recent years compared to the 90s and early 2000's?? __________________ Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning: Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down. One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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06-19-2012, 02:57 PM	#9
blaise In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Plano, TX Casino cash: $9999900	Bonds will get in because the writers don't want to be called racists. Once they let him in it's going to allow Clemens and others to get in.
Posts: 22,188