Stone Temple Pilots fire lead singer

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You're very closed minded, especially when it comes to the process of recording. A little advice: Stop with your preconcieved notions (which also happen to be incorrect) and stop acting as if you know everything.

Man, I just don't want my record to sound like everyone ****ing body else's ****ing record. I don't have a producer, I don't have anyone with any real recording studio experience, I don't know what I'm doing with digital a good 3/4 of the time...

...I just think that if you record a good performance on good equipment that it should sound good.

That's not me having preconceived notions or thinking I know it all; quite the opposite - it's that I don't know what I'm doing so much that I don't know what else to do, if that makes any sense...

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Driving Wheel

Man, I just don't want my record to sound like everyone ****ing body else's ****ing record. I don't have a producer, I don't have anyone with any real recording studio experience, I don't know what I'm doing with digital a good 3/4 of the time...

...I just think that if you record a good performance on good equipment that it should sound good.

That's not me having preconceived notions or thinking I know it all; quite the opposite - it's that I don't know what I'm doing so much that I don't know what else to do, if that makes any sense...

Yes, it sounds like you're inexperienced and don't know what you're doing. There's nothing wrong with that, as everyone needs to start somewhere. But you're mixing up terminology.

Furthermore, taking three signals and combining them into one is a recipe for disaster, IMO. Get a great sound coming from your instrument and amp, then select the best microphone, mic preamp and compressor (if necessary) in order to capture your sound.

Your sound might come for a REDDI box or an old Ampeg or a solid state Acoustic amp. It doesn't matter, as long as it's your sound. Don't get caught up in "Well I read on the internet that if I take a signal from here and one from there and one from there, then mix them, it'll be great!". Phasing is most certainly an issue, unless you're using something like a Little Labs IBP but even still, it should not be difficult.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yes, it sounds like you're inexperienced and don't know what you're doing. There's nothing wrong with that, as everyone needs to start somewhere. But you're mixing up terminology.

Furthermore, taking three signals and combining them into one is a recipe for disaster, IMO. Get a great sound coming from your instrument and amp, then select the best microphone, mic preamp and compressor (if necessary) in order to capture your sound.

Your sound might come for a REDDI box or an old Ampeg or a solid state Acoustic amp. It doesn't matter, as long as it's your sound. Don't get caught up in "Well I read on the internet that if I take a signal from here and one from there and one from there, then mix them, it'll be great!". Phasing is most certainly an issue, unless you're using something like a Little Labs IBP but even still, it should not be difficult.

old Ampeg/Orange is definitely the sound, and not necessarily recording all three with the intention of mixing them; just to have the options.

Probably going to have someone else (who knows what they're doing) mix it, and that way, you know, for a particular cut he doesn't like the sound of the miked amp. Well, he can take that dry signal and either re-amp or use a plug-in, however he feels is best. It's more to provide options during mixing than to acheive some monstrous bass sound.

Like, the more I hear 'new' albums with 'modern' bass sounds, the more I want to have that old school, warm Ampeg Noel Redding/Geezer Butler sound. To me, the way Paul McCartney's bass sounds on Revolver is ideal. There's almost TOO MUCH bass in the sonic spectrum in music today, but with mp3 and compressed digital formats, along with bigger speaker, modern equipment and evolving tastes, there HAS to be some of that bottom end, or yohr record can't ever compete on any level. Like, it has to sound good on the radio, next to the prominent regional and national acts that it hopefully will be played alongside...

and that's just the BASS; the guitars have been a NIGHTMARE, woth tuning issues, percussive 'chukkas' that muck up the mix, etc.

Yeah...I thought 'we'll just go in and bash out 8-9 songs and mix 'em and call that a record.'

That was over 9 months ago, we're almost halfway through, but with no real end in sight.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Driving Wheel

old Ampeg/Orange is definitely the sound, and not necessarily recording all three with the intention of mixing them; just to have the options.

Probably going to have someone else (who knows what they're doing) mix it, and that way, you know, for a particular cut he doesn't like the sound of the miked amp. Well, he can take that dry signal and either re-amp or use a plug-in, however he feels is best. It's more to provide options during mixing than to acheive some monstrous bass sound.

Like, the more I hear 'new' albums with 'modern' bass sounds, the more I want to have that old school, warm Ampeg Noel Redding/Geezer Butler sound. To me, the way Paul McCartney's bass sounds on Revolver is ideal. There's almost TOO MUCH bass in the sonic spectrum in music today, but with mp3 and compressed digital formats, along with bigger speaker, modern equipment and evolving tastes, there HAS to be some of that bottom end, or yohr record can't ever compete on any level. Like, it has to sound good on the radio, next to the prominent regional and national acts that it hopefully will be played alongside...

and that's just the BASS; the guitars have been a NIGHTMARE, woth tuning issues, percussive 'chukkas' that muck up the mix, etc.

Yeah...I thought 'we'll just go in and bash out 8-9 songs and mix 'em and call that a record.'

That was over 9 months ago, we're almost halfway through, but with no real end in sight.

This post illustrates perfectly what I tell young kids that want a career in the music business: Go to school.

Go to Berkelee School of Music, USC Film school, UCLA Film school, NYU, etc. There are very few people working successfully (and by that, I mean actually earning "real" money) in the music business that didn't graduate from one of those prestigious schools.

Whether it Film/TV composition and production, Music Supervision, marketing and promotions, songwriting, etc., it's nearly impossible to compete with well-educated and extremely talented individuals that had had the benefit of a music education taught by the world's best teachers.

You're a mid-20's guy in Missouri that's needed more than nine months to cut 12 songs. I know film and TV composer/producers that create 12 Master Quality tracks per day.

It's a really, really tough road otherwise. Good luck, Dude!

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

This post illustrates perfectly what I tell young kids that want a career in the music business: Go to school.

Go to Berkelee School of Music, USC Film school, UCLA Film school, NYU, etc. There are very few people working successfully (and by that, I mean actually earning "real" money) in the music business that didn't graduate from one of those prestigious schools.

those prestigious schools cost hella bread; Daddy can't cook that much meth since they put all those restrictions on the Sudafed (dorky winky thing to indicate sarcasm here)

Seriously, I went to UCM (formerly CMSU) for audio engineering, but once I got out playing in bands and working sound in clubs, etc. and wound up in CoMo at MU, I decided to change to something more 'practical', school-wise. I figured, I'll pretty much always be able to find work in music around here at this point...but that may not always be the case. I'm young and brash and some people find that endearing and charismatic (in person, at least) but that shit only lasts so long, and it takes real substance to make a career out of music to make any scratch. I mean, tons of really talented awesome people wind up broke and working shit jobs because they couldn't weather the storm, and maybe just put all their eggs into that 'star trip.' I ain't trying to be a star...just wanna make good music. And get paid, if I can, in the process.

I mean, we already get paid usually anywhere from $300-500 a night to play mostly originals, which is amazing and great. Had a few thousand-dollar nights here and there. But that's just in Central MO. It's different everywhere else.

Too dumb for New York, and too ugly for LA is indeed how I feel.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Whether it Film/TV composition and production, Music Supervision, marketing and promotions, songwriting, etc., it's nearly impossible to compete with well-educated and extremely talented individuals that had had the benefit of a music education taught by the world's best teachers.

I know.

that's why 'good enough' doesn't cut it.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You're a mid-20's guy in Missouri that's needed more than nine months to cut 12 songs. I know film and TV composer/producers that create 12 Master Quality tracks per day.

It's a really, really tough road otherwise. Good luck, Dude!

Sure, but those cats either have constant access to the studio or have the gear in their house.

I have Pro Tools and a Tascam reel to reel 8-track. I have some decent mics and good preamps...I can make some really good-sounding demos.

In order to have access to all the preamps and compressors and $2k vocal mics, along the ability to use all that gear, I have to pay an hourly rate at a pro studio. So we duck in and out as money and schedules permit. We cut basic tracks to get drums, and have been overdubbing on top of that. Not cutting any corners, not saying 'good enough', etc

Like, I have a bunch of multitracks from live shows, and there are AUD and SBD recordings of us on archive.org and bt.etree.org, etc. So there's no point in just trying to replicate that in the studio...I feel we should push ourselves to actually be great.

So who knows...it might be enough to get someone interested in working with us...(dorky cross-mouthed guy here)

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Driving Wheel

those prestigious schools cost hella bread;

Then move to LA, NY or Nashville, sacrifice and learn.

You'd be far better off sacrificing and going to school because honestly, I don't think you understand this business and will most likely, end up working a job you hate for the rest of your life.

Food for thought.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Then move to LA, NY or Nashville, sacrifice and learn.

You'd be far better off sacrificing and going to school because honestly, I don't think you understand this business and will most likely, end up working a job you hate for the rest of your life.

Food for thought.

I attend MU right now where I'm earning a BA : Sociology major, Journalism minor. I'll always do something I like.

I work very hard in an unconventional way; I'm already a success on some levels, in my (and many other people's) eyes, first by surviving...second, by continuing to smile. I like my life already, and am having a good time. My daughter loves me; I just bought her her first guitar, she's 4 1/2 and loves music (Dixie Chicks, The Beatles, and White Stripes are her faves. And the O Brother sndtrk)...everything on top of all this is gravy. We play out damn near every weekend, and that also part of what is taking so long to get the record done.

It's not a be-all, end-all for me to 'make it' by solely playing music; I iust figure to give it one real shot before I'm too old. Rather regret something I did, than something I didn't do* (I think the Butthole Surfers said that.)

that being said, I respect your opinion as someone with industry experience and also simply as a person who loves music, so I appreciate any and all feedback.

So many people, even at my age, have become so jaded that they quit being actual fans of music, so that's just sad. I don't ever want to be that guy...

I'm a music fan, first a foremost.

[Easy 6]

Speaking of GNR, did anyone catch the VH1 concert from london last saturday?

Gotta say, they sounded awesome... Axls voice hasnt been that good in ten years, it was GREAT to hear all of the stuff from the Illusion albums live.

Axl looks like he's kinda going through the motions more than i ever remember, he doesnt have that physical fire he used to, but still, he sounded very good.

Feel like punching myself in the junk for forgetting to record it... it made them seem relevant again.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by scott free

Speaking of GNR, did anyone catch the VH1 concert from london last saturday?

Gotta say, they sounded awesome... Axls voice hasnt been that good in ten years, it was GREAT to hear all of the stuff from the Illusion albums live.

Axl looks like he's kinda going through the motions more than i ever remember, he doesnt have that physical fire he used to, but still, he sounded very good.

Feel like punching myself in the junk for forgetting to record it... it made them seem relevant again.

All of those "Live Concerts" go through an enormous amount of audio post-production, including tuning the vocals with with either Autotune or Melodyne.

That said, the new GNR band is comprised of some ridiculously talented players but to me, they come off as bland because they're so good. Slash and Duff and Izzy and Steven were "feel" players. The difference between Matt and Adler's drumming is shocking and Matt's songs don't "feel" anywhere near as "good" as Steven's. This was no more apparent than their Rock And Roll Hall of Fame induction, where Guns and Roses sounded like Guns and Roses (minus Axl).

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

All of those "Live Concerts" go through an enormous amount of audio post-production, including tuning the vocals with with either Autotune or Melodyne.

That said, the new GNR band is comprised of some ridiculously talented players but to me, they come off as bland because they're so good. Slash and Duff and Izzy and Steven were "feel" players. The difference between Matt and Adler's drumming is shocking and Matt's songs don't "feel" anywhere near as "good" as Steven's. This was no more apparent than their Rock And Roll Hall of Fame induction, where Guns and Roses sounded like Guns and Roses (minus Axl).

Dane, do you think we will ever get an Axel/Slash reunion in our lifetime?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Dane, do you think we will ever get an Axel/Slash reunion in our lifetime?

I don't think it'll ever happen. Both have too much money, so that won't be a draw and they really don't like each other, at all. Hate is the more appropriate word.

Slash is happy with his current band with Myles and if he ever gets bored with touring and putting out albums every year, he'll likely turn to film scoring.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I don't think it'll ever happen. Both have too much money, so that won't be a draw and they really don't like each other, at all. Hate is the more appropriate word.

Slash is happy with his current band with Myles and if he ever gets bored with touring and putting out albums every year, he'll likely turn to film scoring.

I don't think I could just let bygones be bygones if I were Slash at this point.

Axl...destroyed that band. I know that drugs and egos were out of hand, etc. but Axl was (supposedly) relatively sober, and could've kept that ship together if he had wanted to.

Instead, he wanted to turn the baddest boozy bluesy rock band this side of guys not named Stones or Crowes into Elton Queen Inch Nails.

A damn shame...

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Driving Wheel

I don't think I could just let bygones be bygones if I were Slash at this point.

Axl...destroyed that band. I know that drugs and egos were out of hand, etc. but Axl was (supposedly) relatively sober, and could've kept that ship together if he had wanted to.

Instead, he wanted to turn the baddest boozy bluesy rock band this side of guys not named Stones or Crowes into Elton Queen Inch Nails.

A damn shame...

man, you TOTALLY had me up until you compared them to the Black Crowes.

I always enjoyed them... but, those guys couldnt sniff GNR's coke and heroin soaked jock.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I don't think it'll ever happen. Both have too much money, so that won't be a draw and they really don't like each other, at all. Hate is the more appropriate word.

Slash is happy with his current band with Myles and if he ever gets bored with touring and putting out albums every year, he'll likely turn to film scoring.

I read slash's book and I fully agree with you here
Posted via Mobile Device

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

All of those "Live Concerts" go through an enormous amount of audio post-production, including tuning the vocals with with either Autotune or Melodyne.

That said, the new GNR band is comprised of some ridiculously talented players but to me, they come off as bland because they're so good. Slash and Duff and Izzy and Steven were "feel" players. The difference between Matt and Adler's drumming is shocking and Matt's songs don't "feel" anywhere near as "good" as Steven's. This was no more apparent than their Rock And Roll Hall of Fame induction, where Guns and Roses sounded like Guns and Roses (minus Axl).

yeah, Izzy said one of the biggest reasons he left was because he didn't like the way the band's music had changed.

His sobriety and Axl's erratic behavior were the other main contributing factors.

Poor Izzy; he's so scarred from LSD (lead singer dysfunction) that when VR was forming, it was him, Duff, Slash, and Matt, and Izzy was down...as long as they didn't get a ****ing lead singer.

Izzy just wanted to tour clubs with him and Duff singing...

maybe they could still get that together.

WAY more likely than the original Guns ever getting back together.