All of you who want the Chiefs to lose out

Raiderhater · 12-05-2000, 05:58 PM

OK, I know that you are disapointed, frustrated, upset, and just plain mad. But trust me this is not the best way to handle the situation.
For those of you who want to lose so as to get a top draft pick, what good would that do if we don't use him right? He would be with us for a couple of years then leave (probaly to one of our divisional rivals). A high draft pick will not help as much as you people would like to belive.
Those of you who want the team to lose out so that evryone on the coaching staff is fired, what about the talent on the team that does not want to be associated with a losing team. We have some people that other teams would scoop up in a New York minute (for example Gonzo). [b]These players are more likely to leave if the fans are not even behind them![/b] Why should the players go out and play for fans who don't want them to win. Why do you think they are out there? I understand that you want to clean house as far as coaching, but you take a risk of losing your team as well, because who would want to play for fans like you? I sure wouldn't!
Again I understand your frustrations, but turning on your team is not the way to deal with it. It really makes you guys look like band wagon fans. It is not very becoming of you.

!!!GO CHIEFS!!!

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WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

G_Man · 12-05-2000, 06:09 PM

1. The days where our draft picks don't play are behind us. Morris has started almost every game this year.

2. None of our great players are FAs next year. And they won't be doing anything in KC anyway with Gun and co. in charge. Do you really think they would want to stay around with a coaching staff that has no clue?

G_Man · 12-05-2000, 06:12 PM

And the team is not losing due to poor fan support; it's losing because of the coaching staff. The fans' anger and disappointment has been directed at the coaches, not the players. Look at what happened at the CP show.

12-05-2000, 06:12 PM

Dude, our players ALREADY play for a losing organization. Winning out ensures a .500 season. The ramifications of 8-8 season and a 5-11 season are the same. Neither goes to the playoffs. 5-11 teams have weak schedules the following year AND draft high. 8-8 teams get average schedules and 15-20 range in the draft.

You are being equally negative assuming the draft pick won't pan out. That makes you look like a bandwagon fan and is unbecoming.

Raiderhater · 12-05-2000, 06:55 PM

G_Man, first of all I didn't say that our rookies didn't play, and I did not say that that would make a differnce one way or the other. Second, the fact that none of our great players are FAs next year does not mean that they won't still split when they get the chance. I also did not say that the team was losing do to poor fan support (you are putting an awful lot of words in my mouth). I said that the players will not want to play for a team who's fans want it to lose.
KPhobia, sure they are playing for a losing team, but they really will not stay if they see fans that WANT them to go out there and lose. These players take an awful big chance of sustaining a serious injury while they are on the field, and they would ask themselves why take the chance if the fans want us to lose anyways. As for the soft schedule, who cares? All that does is gets our critics talking about what a weak schedule we have. I would much rather have a strong schedule and prove what we are made of. About the draft pick not panning out, that is based upon the status quo. As for being negative about anything, look who's talking! You people want YOUR team, the team that you love, that you cry over, that you get mad at, and all the other feelings that go with attaching yourself to something or someone, you want them to LOSE. Now that is negative, and it puts Chiefs fans in a bad light. You people are the ones who look like bandwagon fans, getting mad because of the situation at hand and just giving up. I still root for my team to win. I refuse to turn on them just because they are having a bad year.

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WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

[This message has been edited by raiderhader (edited 12-05-2000).]

G_Man · 12-05-2000, 07:50 PM

"...what good would (a high draft pick) do if we don't use him right?"

I assume that's a shot at our coaching staff then? Wouldn't losing out and having them fired resolve this to some extent?

As for the players not wanting to play for fans who want to see them lose, where do you think they see that we want to lose? I think it's well known that the only reason we want to lose is so that we can have a coaching change or a high draft pick. Do you think this would offend the players that we want a new coach for them? Nobody's saying we want to lose because of the players. That would just be ridiculous.

12-05-2000, 07:50 PM

I know I talk out both sides of my mouth on this issue. However, if you are in my living room, I'm screaming and cheering for my team to play their best and win if possible just like they were still in the playoff hunt. I was just as dejected at our loss on MNF as the next fan.

I'm just being very practical in that our chances for next year are greatly improved if we lose our final 3 games. I'm not saying to throw games away. If we can gain some momentum and confidence by winning the final 3 games, I'm all for it. I just think we're better off losing for a variety of reasons:
1. Draft pick
2. Schedule
3. New coaching staff
4. Possible exposure for more rookies & backups if allowed on the field the final 3 games.

Any of those reasons by themselves are more compelling than "playing for pride" or whatever other reason one can conjure up to win the remaining 3 games. All 4 together almost demand 3 losses to close the season.

All that said, I'll still be in my red gear rooting for the Chiefs on sunday. And I'll be disappointed if they lose.

Some people just handle adversity differently, raider-hader. If you can accept that without being judgemental, you'll be much happier with yourself, your fellow fans, and your favorite football team.

G_Man · 12-05-2000, 07:53 PM

I don't know where you even get this stuff about the players not wanting to play for fans who want to see them lose. Did the fans that were absent from the stadium want to see us lose? No. We want to see them lose NOW, when we have no chance at the playoffs. We want to see them lose because we have no faith that the upper management will make changes without drastic meauses. If the players can't see that (and I don't see what they could mistake that for), then they're pretty stupid. The players are probably just as fed up with these idiots in charge as we are.

G_Man · 12-05-2000, 07:55 PM

NO fan WANTS to see his team lose. But now, we have no choice. And if losing means we get a quality coaching staff next year then I'm all for it. For your information, I was cheering for us to win last night. But when we lost I wasn't too upset because I am optimistic that it may induce some change.

Stryker · 12-05-2000, 08:35 PM

G-man:

Post #8 says it all. That is exactly how I felt last night.

KPhobia (post #6):

I think we all are talking out the side of our mouth. Like g-man said, we want to win and we cheer and cheer BUT when it is all said and done it is almost RELIEF for the sake of change. Personally, last night was the first time this season I did not piss, ***** and moan after the loss.

raiderhader:

I doubt very seriously that the players feel like they are NOT loved (lack of words). They enjoy the game and understand the triumphs and losses. They also make a hell of a lot of money and reallistically probably do not care how the fan feels. I personally believe that the players know a lot more about what is going on (internally) than the media could ever glorify. This is a business and one in which customers will always be there (fans). I see your point but I do not believe that it is as melodramatic as you think it might be.

Stryker
Still red till dead! GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>

**Tribal Warfare** · 12-05-2000, 09:48 PM

Peterson has 12 years to build a team and this is his product? Its time for a new GM!

**Tribal Warfare** · 12-05-2000, 09:49 PM

doublepost

[This message has been edited by ChiefPriority (edited 12-05-2000).]

Joe Seahawk · 12-05-2000, 09:55 PM

If I was a Chief fan I would be pulling for a 500 season, IMO losing the last eight games of the year is far more harmful to the Chiefs org. than giving up a spot or two in the draft. Trust me I speak from experience. :eek:

The Seahawks have the same record as you, except Holmgren has the team fired up to finish at 500, we have won three of the last four (stinkin Broncos) and the guys are having fun and improving. That, IMO is the attitude a team heading in the right direction should take.....Joe

500 sounds real good to me, well, not really, but I hope we finish 500

[This message has been edited by Joe Seahawk (edited 12-05-2000).]

**Bwana** · 12-05-2000, 09:57 PM

"Why should the players go out and play for fans who don't want them to win. Why do you think they are out there?"

A big fat check for a lot of them. From what I have see for the last several games, there hasn't been a lot of heart out there on the field. There are exceptions, but this seems to be the rule. So I turn the question around, why should the fans cheer for players who don't give a rats a$$?

DJay23 · 12-05-2000, 10:02 PM

My temperament is not negative or frustrated. I think it is possible to be positive while rooting against one's favorite professional football team. It is with an eye to the future that I now hope for Chiefs losses. Like everyone else I got all jittery and excited when we almost won last night, but after we lost I wasn't even minutely upset because I know it may be for the better. Think about it, winning any more games does nothing but give Gunther (and possibly some of his Stooges) a foothold on their jobs for next year. I have certainly not given up on my team and I know no one else here has done that either. I liken this situation to one where you allow someone you love (say a child or sibling) to go through a tough time with as little support as possible to help that loved one build character and learn values.

None of us here wanted this situation to happen, we were all "inarticulate with rage" during just about every loss until the 2nd San Diego game when we were all but out of it. I know we all want the best for our team and we haven't given up, quite the contrary.

I for one can't wait to get all of my new Chiefs gear for Christmas and wear it with pride.

12-05-2000, 06:09 PM	#2
G_Man Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	1. The days where our draft picks don't play are behind us. Morris has started almost every game this year. 2. None of our great players are FAs next year. And they won't be doing anything in KC anyway with Gun and co. in charge. Do you really think they would want to stay around with a coaching staff that has no clue?
Posts: 2,215

12-05-2000, 06:12 PM	#3
G_Man Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	And the team is not losing due to poor fan support; it's losing because of the coaching staff. The fans' anger and disappointment has been directed at the coaches, not the players. Look at what happened at the CP show.
Posts: 2,215

12-05-2000, 06:12 PM	#4
Phobia Guest Casino cash: $	Dude, our players ALREADY play for a losing organization. Winning out ensures a .500 season. The ramifications of 8-8 season and a 5-11 season are the same. Neither goes to the playoffs. 5-11 teams have weak schedules the following year AND draft high. 8-8 teams get average schedules and 15-20 range in the draft. You are being equally negative assuming the draft pick won't pan out. That makes you look like a bandwagon fan and is unbecoming.
Posts: n/a

12-05-2000, 06:55 PM	#5
Raiderhater **** the Raiders Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: A Webb of chaos Casino cash: $2182021	G_Man, first of all I didn't say that our rookies didn't play, and I did not say that that would make a differnce one way or the other. Second, the fact that none of our great players are FAs next year does not mean that they won't still split when they get the chance. I also did not say that the team was losing do to poor fan support (you are putting an awful lot of words in my mouth). I said that the players will not want to play for a team who's fans want it to lose. KPhobia, sure they are playing for a losing team, but they really will not stay if they see fans that WANT them to go out there and lose. These players take an awful big chance of sustaining a serious injury while they are on the field, and they would ask themselves why take the chance if the fans want us to lose anyways. As for the soft schedule, who cares? All that does is gets our critics talking about what a weak schedule we have. I would much rather have a strong schedule and prove what we are made of. About the draft pick not panning out, that is based upon the status quo. As for being negative about anything, look who's talking! You people want YOUR team, the team that you love, that you cry over, that you get mad at, and all the other feelings that go with attaching yourself to something or someone, you want them to LOSE. Now that is negative, and it puts Chiefs fans in a bad light. You people are the ones who look like bandwagon fans, getting mad because of the situation at hand and just giving up. I still root for my team to win. I refuse to turn on them just because they are having a bad year. ------------------ WILDCATS 29 corn balls 28 [This message has been edited by raiderhader (edited 12-05-2000).]
Posts: 28,249

12-05-2000, 07:50 PM	#7
Phobia Guest Casino cash: $	I know I talk out both sides of my mouth on this issue. However, if you are in my living room, I'm screaming and cheering for my team to play their best and win if possible just like they were still in the playoff hunt. I was just as dejected at our loss on MNF as the next fan. I'm just being very practical in that our chances for next year are greatly improved if we lose our final 3 games. I'm not saying to throw games away. If we can gain some momentum and confidence by winning the final 3 games, I'm all for it. I just think we're better off losing for a variety of reasons: 1. Draft pick 2. Schedule 3. New coaching staff 4. Possible exposure for more rookies & backups if allowed on the field the final 3 games. Any of those reasons by themselves are more compelling than "playing for pride" or whatever other reason one can conjure up to win the remaining 3 games. All 4 together almost demand 3 losses to close the season. All that said, I'll still be in my red gear rooting for the Chiefs on sunday. And I'll be disappointed if they lose. Some people just handle adversity differently, raider-hader. If you can accept that without being judgemental, you'll be much happier with yourself, your fellow fans, and your favorite football team.
Posts: n/a

12-05-2000, 05:58 PM
Raiderhater **** the Raiders Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: A Webb of chaos Casino cash: $2182021	OK, I know that you are disapointed, frustrated, upset, and just plain mad. But trust me this is not the best way to handle the situation. For those of you who want to lose so as to get a top draft pick, what good would that do if we don't use him right? He would be with us for a couple of years then leave (probaly to one of our divisional rivals). A high draft pick will not help as much as you people would like to belive. Those of you who want the team to lose out so that evryone on the coaching staff is fired, what about the talent on the team that does not want to be associated with a losing team. We have some people that other teams would scoop up in a New York minute (for example Gonzo). [b]These players are more likely to leave if the fans are not even behind them![/b] Why should the players go out and play for fans who don't want them to win. Why do you think they are out there? I understand that you want to clean house as far as coaching, but you take a risk of losing your team as well, because who would want to play for fans like you? I sure wouldn't! Again I understand your frustrations, but turning on your team is not the way to deal with it. It really makes you guys look like band wagon fans. It is not very becoming of you. !!!GO CHIEFS!!! ------------------ WILDCATS 29 corn balls 28
Posts: 28,249

12-05-2000, 07:53 PM	#8
G_Man Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	I don't know where you even get this stuff about the players not wanting to play for fans who want to see them lose. Did the fans that were absent from the stadium want to see us lose? No. We want to see them lose NOW, when we have no chance at the playoffs. We want to see them lose because we have no faith that the upper management will make changes without drastic meauses. If the players can't see that (and I don't see what they could mistake that for), then they're pretty stupid. The players are probably just as fed up with these idiots in charge as we are.
Posts: 2,215

12-05-2000, 07:55 PM	#9
G_Man Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	NO fan WANTS to see his team lose. But now, we have no choice. And if losing means we get a quality coaching staff next year then I'm all for it. For your information, I was cheering for us to win last night. But when we lost I wasn't too upset because I am optimistic that it may induce some change.
Posts: 2,215

12-05-2000, 08:35 PM	#10
Stryker In Mahomes I trust! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Casino cash: $2544636	G-man: Post #8 says it all. That is exactly how I felt last night. KPhobia (post #6): I think we all are talking out the side of our mouth. Like g-man said, we want to win and we cheer and cheer BUT when it is all said and done it is almost RELIEF for the sake of change. Personally, last night was the first time this season I did not piss, ***** and moan after the loss. raiderhader: I doubt very seriously that the players feel like they are NOT loved (lack of words). They enjoy the game and understand the triumphs and losses. They also make a hell of a lot of money and reallistically probably do not care how the fan feels. I personally believe that the players know a lot more about what is going on (internally) than the media could ever glorify. This is a business and one in which customers will always be there (fans). I see your point but I do not believe that it is as melodramatic as you think it might be. Stryker Still red till dead! GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>
Posts: 5,953

12-05-2000, 09:48 PM	#11
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $932813	Peterson has 12 years to build a team and this is his product? Its time for a new GM!
Posts: 42,056

12-05-2000, 09:49 PM	#12
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $932813	doublepost [This message has been edited by ChiefPriority (edited 12-05-2000).]
Posts: 42,056

12-05-2000, 09:55 PM	#13
Joe Seahawk This place entertains.. Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Seattle Casino cash: $6804435	If I was a Chief fan I would be pulling for a 500 season, IMO losing the last eight games of the year is far more harmful to the Chiefs org. than giving up a spot or two in the draft. Trust me I speak from experience. :eek: The Seahawks have the same record as you, except Holmgren has the team fired up to finish at 500, we have won three of the last four (stinkin Broncos) and the guys are having fun and improving. That, IMO is the attitude a team heading in the right direction should take.....Joe 500 sounds real good to me, well, not really, but I hope we finish 500 [This message has been edited by Joe Seahawk (edited 12-05-2000).]
Posts: 5,503

12-05-2000, 09:57 PM	#14
Bwana It's Five O'Clock Somewhere Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Billings, Montana Casino cash: $2139563647	"Why should the players go out and play for fans who don't want them to win. Why do you think they are out there?" A big fat check for a lot of them. From what I have see for the last several games, there hasn't been a lot of heart out there on the field. There are exceptions, but this seems to be the rule. So I turn the question around, why should the fans cheer for players who don't give a rats a$$?
Posts: 69,737

12-05-2000, 10:02 PM	#15
DJay23 Rock Chalk Jayhawk Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Williamsport, PA Casino cash: $2983317	My temperament is not negative or frustrated. I think it is possible to be positive while rooting against one's favorite professional football team. It is with an eye to the future that I now hope for Chiefs losses. Like everyone else I got all jittery and excited when we almost won last night, but after we lost I wasn't even minutely upset because I know it may be for the better. Think about it, winning any more games does nothing but give Gunther (and possibly some of his Stooges) a foothold on their jobs for next year. I have certainly not given up on my team and I know no one else here has done that either. I liken this situation to one where you allow someone you love (say a child or sibling) to go through a tough time with as little support as possible to help that loved one build character and learn values. None of us here wanted this situation to happen, we were all "inarticulate with rage" during just about every loss until the 2nd San Diego game when we were all but out of it. I know we all want the best for our team and we haven't given up, quite the contrary. I for one can't wait to get all of my new Chiefs gear for Christmas and wear it with pride.
Posts: 8,734