Chiefs Dear, Vikings: Thanks for our quarterback; Sincerely, Chiefs - Page 2

**DaKCMan AP** · 12-04-2008, 10:35 AM

Dear, Vikings: Thanks for our quarterback; Sincerely, Chiefs

By Clark Judge
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

I heard someone last week ask if there were any way the Minnesota Vikings could repay Kansas City for dropping star defensive end Jared Allen on their doorstep, and, yes, I said, there is. In fact, they've already done it.

Meet Tyler Thigpen.

He's the Chiefs' quarterback for now and maybe the future, but he wouldn't be in Kansas City if the Vikings hadn't cut him loose a year ago to make room for a reserve tight end.

The move was a gamble, and Minnesota knew it, but it figured it could re-sign Thigpen -- chosen by the Vikings in the seventh round of the 2007 draft -- to its practice squad after he cleared waivers.

Only he didn't clear. Kansas City claimed him.

Now he's playing so well that Chiefs coach Herman Edwards confessed he's considering scrapping the Chiefs' run-heavy offense next season and going with what works for Tyler Thigpen -- a more spread-out, wide-open, two-minute approach that usually has Thigpen operating out of the shotgun.

That can't be good news for someone like running back Larry Johnson, but it is for Thigpen. It means someone has a conviction about the guy, and that someone is Edwards -- with the coach considering a change next season from his offenses of the past just to suit his young quarterback.

If that happens, it means Edwards believes in Thigpen as his future starter. But he isn't there yet, and he emphasized that when I reached him Wednesday.

"We've got four games left," he said. "Let's see what he does. But one thing I do know: He's a No. 2. There is no doubt about that. That we know."

Others within the Kansas City hierarchy admit "cautious optimism" about Thigpen, who produced his first victory last weekend and who has played well for one of the league's bottom feeders. In fact, in a recent four-game stretch, he threw eight touchdown passes and one interception and took, in order, the Jets, Tampa Bay and San Diego to the mat, with all three games decided in the closing seconds.

Now, let's make something clear: Tyler Thigpen is not the next Eli or Peyton Manning. But he is a pleasant discovery in a not-so-pleasant season in Kansas City, and the Chiefs can address those "thank you" notes to 9520 Viking Drive, Eden Prairie, Minn. They wouldn't have Thigpen were it not for the Vikings' gamble.

The common perception is that Kansas City discovered Thigpen when the Chiefs and Vikings held a preseason scrimmage, but Edwards shot down that idea, saying Thigpen didn't play "that much" when the two teams practiced against each other. Instead, he said, Thigpen appeared on the Kansas City radar when he was a star quarterback at Coastal Carolina, with the Chiefs rating him a low fifth- or high sixth-round choice.

He could run. He had a strong arm. He was accurate. He was durable. And he won. Basically, he was everything you wanted from a quarterback, with a couple of drawbacks: 1) He didn't operate in a pro offense, working instead out of the shotgun, and 2) he played at a small school against lesser competition.

Nevertheless, when the team's vice president of player personnel, Bill Kuharich, watched him that summer in the fourth quarter of an exhibition game, he noticed something he liked.

"It was just the way he handled himself and the pressure," said Kuharich. "It reinforced what I had seen on tape. (Team president) Carl (Peterson), Herm and I decided if he ever became available we would claim him."

Which, of course, they did when Minnesota stuck with Tarvaris Jackson and acquired veteran backup Kelly Holcomb. Now, Holcomb is gone, Jackson is benched and Thigpen is playing for Kansas City. Hindsight is 20-20, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out the Vikings erred when they let Thigpen go.

I came to that conclusion last weekend when Thigpen led Kansas City on a 16-play, 91-yard drive that broke a 10-10 deadlock against Oakland. He completed three of four passes and ran for two first downs on that series.

I came to that conclusion again that afternoon when, on third-and-3 with just over two minutes to play, he iced the game by hitting Dwayne Bowe with a 12-yard completion.

"We've got ourselves a pretty good quarterback," said Edwards.

That's as strong a statement as you get from the head coach, but it tells you what he will not: That Tyler Thigpen could be the quarterback the Chiefs envisioned when they drafted Brodie Croyle in 2006. Croyle was supposed to be the Chiefs' quarterback of the future, but those plans have been scrapped because he can't stay healthy.

Thigpen can. He can also win, with last weekend's defeat of Oakland a breakthrough. After close calls against four opponents -- including New Orleans -- he finally demonstrated that he can close a deal, and that's what the Chiefs have been missing the past year and a half.

But that's just the beginning. They rave about Thigpen's mobility. In fact, it was the first quality Edwards ticked off when he listed his quarterback's strengths. Thigpen can throw with accuracy, too, with a string of 161 passes without an interception and a third-down passer-rating higher than those of Brett Favre and Jay Cutler. Plus, he's an outstanding athlete -- the only quarterback in Kansas City history to score a touchdown by running, passing and receiving.

"The question now," said Edwards, "is how will he continue to play and do we want to change the offense? I have to talk to (offensive coordinator) Chan Gailey, but right now I'm thinking we would.

"We changed everything to build the offense around him. It's like we're operating with a three-page notebook, adding a little with each week. Now the question is: Do we stay with this? Because it means you would have to do some things differently, like look at a little different offensive linemen."

The Chiefs have four games to produce an answer, but that they are even considering a change in their offense tells me one thing: They may have found themselves a quarterback.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/11149961

Hog's Gone Fishin · 12-04-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

Oh baby; that is one laundry list full of Wrong.

You can't handicap the running game by working out of the shotgun all day. I'm a fan of Thigpen, but this is just scary stupid.

Shuddup Moron!

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-04-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Jesus

It works, obviously. Not only does it work for us, but it has worked for other teams in the past. Why are you complaining? If Herm says he is willing to change his offensive philosophy permanently, then that's cause for celebration

BECAUSE IT'S COMPLETE ABANDONMENT OF AN EFFECTIVE RUNNING GAME.

God, somebody back me on this PLEASE!

If you stick with this current scheme; lining LJ or whoever up behind Thigpen in a shotgun formation, you've lost 3+ yards before the ****ing ball is even snapped!

This is stupid, reeruned, gay, D-D-DEE, Ass clown Offense.
If there were only ONE THING I could point to and say Herm needs to be fired; this would be the one.

**the Talking Can** · 12-04-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

"The question now," said Edwards, "is how will he continue to play and do we want to change the offense? I have to talk to (offensive coordinator) Chan Gailey, but right now I'm thinking we would.

"We changed everything to build the offense around him. It's like we're operating with a three-page notebook, adding a little with each week. Now the question is: Do we stay with this? Because it means you would have to do some things differently, like look at a little different offensive linemen."

now that is interesting stuff

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-04-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

You do realize that since we've gone spread we've rushed the ball more, gained more yards and have a higher yards per carry average?

Considering our total ground game, I wouldn't go counting that as a positive.

And if you DO, then know that those yards are coming from outside or near outside runs.

This is utter lunacy.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-04-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Jesus

With Herm calling Tyler a #2, I have a good feeling that he will draft a Bradford or Stafford in the draft.

1) I think you're missing the implication here. He think's that Thigpen is AT LEAST a #2. Meaning, at worst, he knows he has a backup in place. He's displaying some cautious optimism that Thigpen can be the #1, and wants to see how he performs over the last 4 games before they make a decision to permanently change the offense for 2009.

2) And it's going to be hard to take a QB that is already gone (Stafford) and one that is still playing college ball. (Bradford)

**DaKCMan AP** · 12-04-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

Considering our total ground game, I wouldn't go counting that as a positive.

And if you DO, then know that those yards are coming from outside or near outside runs.

This is utter lunacy.

You mean our total ground game that is ranked 12th in the NFL? The numbers aren't bad. Pre-spread we were averaging 4.4ypc. Since we switched to the spread we're getting 5.18ypc.

**petegz28** · 12-04-2008, 11:08 AM

I may garner some shred of respect for Herm if he does change his offensive mindset to fit Thigy. That would be a step out of the play not to lose mentality I would think.

Fish · 12-04-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

BECAUSE IT'S COMPLETE ABANDONMENT OF AN EFFECTIVE RUNNING GAME.

God, somebody back me on this PLEASE!

If you stick with this current scheme; lining LJ or whoever up behind Thigpen in a shotgun formation, you've lost 3+ yards before the ****ing ball is even snapped!

This is stupid, reeruned, gay, D-D-DEE, Ass clown Offense.
If there were only ONE THING I could point to and say Herm needs to be fired; this would be the one.

The exact same thing was said about the West Coast Offense when teams started running it. Lots of people said "Yeah just wait till we play a real defense. Then this gimmick offense will fall apart." Well, we played some pretty good defenses, and we still had success with it. Obviously there is still some skepticism, but teams have had a chance to game plan for it, and it's still been successful.

Saying that this is the thing Herm should be fired over is straight stupid.

RedThat · 12-04-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Jesus

With Herm calling Tyler a #2, I have a good feeling that he will draft a Bradford or Stafford in the draft.

That could be possible. If Stafford or Bradford are the BPA when the Chiefs pick they just might pick either one?

But, I also think the Chiefs are looking at LBer as well. Moving DJ to the middle gives every indication of that.

We do know, the Chiefs hint to positions for sure:

-LB and QB

kcfanXIII · 12-04-2008, 11:14 AM

why is it we can have R2P2, OR the spread? some people make it sound like those are the only two options. who's to say during the revamping of the offense, chan doesn't find some happy balance? let thigpen get a little more comfortable under center, and slowly get back to a more pro style offense. that being said, i'm wondering how this offense is going to run in december. (i'd like to see how it runs in january more, but thats not happening.)

**The Franchise** · 12-04-2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

BECAUSE IT'S COMPLETE ABANDONMENT OF AN EFFECTIVE RUNNING GAME.

God, somebody back me on this PLEASE!

If you stick with this current scheme; lining LJ or whoever up behind Thigpen in a shotgun formation, you've lost 3+ yards before the ****ing ball is even snapped!

This is stupid, reeruned, gay, D-D-DEE, Ass clown Offense.
If there were only ONE THING I could point to and say Herm needs to be fired; this would be the one.

Holy ****ing crap dude. You probably bitched about R2P2 as well huh? Is there an offense that we can run that would make you happy?

Radar Chief · 12-04-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Fish

The exact same thing was said about the West Coast Offense when teams started running it. Lots of people said "Yeah just wait till we play a real defense. Then this gimmick offense will fall apart." Well, we played some pretty good defenses, and we still had success with it. Obviously there is still some skepticism, but teams have had a chance to game plan for it, and it's still been successful.

Saying that this is the thing Herm should be fired over is straight stupid.

Good point. I never have understood the argument that the spread offense won’t work in the NFL. Maybe that’s because I’ve never heard, or read, a reasonable argument for why.

kepp · 12-04-2008, 11:20 AM

Another piece to this puzzle that needs to be looked at is how the college game is moving more and more to the spread. It may become difficult to find enough "true" pro-style players - especially QBs - after a while.

Micjones · 12-04-2008, 11:20 AM

I don't think we'd necessarily have to sell the run out to adopt this offense next season.

Currently it's about a 60/40 split in favor of the pass.

I'm not looking at the numbers at the moment, but I'd imagine that we've been fairly effective running the ball since the Spread was installed.

And remember, we're not fully operational with it.
Herm said as much in the article.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-04-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pestilenceaf23

Holy ****ing crap dude. You probably bitched about R2P2 as well huh? Is there an offense that we can run that would make you happy?

Wow. Wow wow wow.

Prior to this thread, I thought that overall we had some really good students of the game in here.

Unbelieveable.

12-04-2008, 10:35 AM
DaKCMan AP Beloved & Awesome CP Celebrity Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Florida Casino cash: $6724952	Dear, Vikings: Thanks for our quarterback; Sincerely, Chiefs Dear, Vikings: Thanks for our quarterback; Sincerely, Chiefs By Clark Judge CBSSports.com Senior Writer I heard someone last week ask if there were any way the Minnesota Vikings could repay Kansas City for dropping star defensive end Jared Allen on their doorstep, and, yes, I said, there is. In fact, they've already done it. Meet Tyler Thigpen. He's the Chiefs' quarterback for now and maybe the future, but he wouldn't be in Kansas City if the Vikings hadn't cut him loose a year ago to make room for a reserve tight end. The move was a gamble, and Minnesota knew it, but it figured it could re-sign Thigpen -- chosen by the Vikings in the seventh round of the 2007 draft -- to its practice squad after he cleared waivers. Only he didn't clear. Kansas City claimed him. Now he's playing so well that Chiefs coach Herman Edwards confessed he's considering scrapping the Chiefs' run-heavy offense next season and going with what works for Tyler Thigpen -- a more spread-out, wide-open, two-minute approach that usually has Thigpen operating out of the shotgun. That can't be good news for someone like running back Larry Johnson, but it is for Thigpen. It means someone has a conviction about the guy, and that someone is Edwards -- with the coach considering a change next season from his offenses of the past just to suit his young quarterback. If that happens, it means Edwards believes in Thigpen as his future starter. But he isn't there yet, and he emphasized that when I reached him Wednesday. "We've got four games left," he said. "Let's see what he does. But one thing I do know: He's a No. 2. There is no doubt about that. That we know." Others within the Kansas City hierarchy admit "cautious optimism" about Thigpen, who produced his first victory last weekend and who has played well for one of the league's bottom feeders. In fact, in a recent four-game stretch, he threw eight touchdown passes and one interception and took, in order, the Jets, Tampa Bay and San Diego to the mat, with all three games decided in the closing seconds. Now, let's make something clear: Tyler Thigpen is not the next Eli or Peyton Manning. But he is a pleasant discovery in a not-so-pleasant season in Kansas City, and the Chiefs can address those "thank you" notes to 9520 Viking Drive, Eden Prairie, Minn. They wouldn't have Thigpen were it not for the Vikings' gamble. The common perception is that Kansas City discovered Thigpen when the Chiefs and Vikings held a preseason scrimmage, but Edwards shot down that idea, saying Thigpen didn't play "that much" when the two teams practiced against each other. Instead, he said, Thigpen appeared on the Kansas City radar when he was a star quarterback at Coastal Carolina, with the Chiefs rating him a low fifth- or high sixth-round choice. He could run. He had a strong arm. He was accurate. He was durable. And he won. Basically, he was everything you wanted from a quarterback, with a couple of drawbacks: 1) He didn't operate in a pro offense, working instead out of the shotgun, and 2) he played at a small school against lesser competition. Nevertheless, when the team's vice president of player personnel, Bill Kuharich, watched him that summer in the fourth quarter of an exhibition game, he noticed something he liked. "It was just the way he handled himself and the pressure," said Kuharich. "It reinforced what I had seen on tape. (Team president) Carl (Peterson), Herm and I decided if he ever became available we would claim him." Which, of course, they did when Minnesota stuck with Tarvaris Jackson and acquired veteran backup Kelly Holcomb. Now, Holcomb is gone, Jackson is benched and Thigpen is playing for Kansas City. Hindsight is 20-20, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out the Vikings erred when they let Thigpen go. I came to that conclusion last weekend when Thigpen led Kansas City on a 16-play, 91-yard drive that broke a 10-10 deadlock against Oakland. He completed three of four passes and ran for two first downs on that series. I came to that conclusion again that afternoon when, on third-and-3 with just over two minutes to play, he iced the game by hitting Dwayne Bowe with a 12-yard completion. "We've got ourselves a pretty good quarterback," said Edwards. That's as strong a statement as you get from the head coach, but it tells you what he will not: That Tyler Thigpen could be the quarterback the Chiefs envisioned when they drafted Brodie Croyle in 2006. Croyle was supposed to be the Chiefs' quarterback of the future, but those plans have been scrapped because he can't stay healthy. Thigpen can. He can also win, with last weekend's defeat of Oakland a breakthrough. After close calls against four opponents -- including New Orleans -- he finally demonstrated that he can close a deal, and that's what the Chiefs have been missing the past year and a half. But that's just the beginning. They rave about Thigpen's mobility. In fact, it was the first quality Edwards ticked off when he listed his quarterback's strengths. Thigpen can throw with accuracy, too, with a string of 161 passes without an interception and a third-down passer-rating higher than those of Brett Favre and Jay Cutler. Plus, he's an outstanding athlete -- the only quarterback in Kansas City history to score a touchdown by running, passing and receiving. "The question now," said Edwards, "is how will he continue to play and do we want to change the offense? I have to talk to (offensive coordinator) Chan Gailey, but right now I'm thinking we would. "We changed everything to build the offense around him. It's like we're operating with a three-page notebook, adding a little with each week. Now the question is: Do we stay with this? Because it means you would have to do some things differently, like look at a little different offensive linemen." The Chiefs have four games to produce an answer, but that they are even considering a change in their offense tells me one thing: They may have found themselves a quarterback. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/11149961
Posts: 35,695

12-04-2008, 11:08 AM	#22
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $2624127	I may garner some shred of respect for Herm if he does change his offensive mindset to fit Thigy. That would be a step out of the play not to lose mentality I would think.
Posts: 128,154

12-04-2008, 11:14 AM	#25
kcfanXIII Ride on! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Galaxy far far away Casino cash: $10013172	why is it we can have R2P2, OR the spread? some people make it sound like those are the only two options. who's to say during the revamping of the offense, chan doesn't find some happy balance? let thigpen get a little more comfortable under center, and slowly get back to a more pro style offense. that being said, i'm wondering how this offense is going to run in december. (i'd like to see how it runs in january more, but thats not happening.) __________________ Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed, overcomes the fear of death.
Posts: 5,470

12-04-2008, 11:20 AM	#28
kepp MVP Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $5279212	Another piece to this puzzle that needs to be looked at is how the college game is moving more and more to the spread. It may become difficult to find enough "true" pro-style players - especially QBs - after a while.
Posts: 14,498

12-04-2008, 11:20 AM	#29
Micjones Whose house? Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $10005180	I don't think we'd necessarily have to sell the run out to adopt this offense next season. Currently it's about a 60/40 split in favor of the pass. I'm not looking at the numbers at the moment, but I'd imagine that we've been fairly effective running the ball since the Spread was installed. And remember, we're not fully operational with it. Herm said as much in the article. __________________ It's like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I could been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong.
Posts: 15,344