Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

[Buck]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...enhancing-drug

He's facing a 50 game suspension.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Around that, without looking it up.

Most guys don't have a clue as to what they are talking about with this.

Guys that bitch about guys using PED's are pussies. These same mother ****ers usually want to legalize pot then cry like bottlefed mother ****ers when someone uses PED's.

Shit should be legal before pot should. I never heard of someones driving being impaired from using test or tren or dbol or halo. ****ing stupid.

Agreed. I see no reason for anabolic steroids to be illegal. Our society is hypocritical in so many ways, though, so it's not surprising.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I would be more cool with it being used in every day society then in pro sports. They create too big of an advantage with the user compared to the non user and while I understand them 1/2 ass and the ignorance to the actual side effects I don't think anyone should be forced to use them to keep up with a career path. You would almost need to have serperate leagues. One for users and one for non users, but it's pretty obvious which one everyone would watch.

Not really BCD. That's kind of a myth. If you can't hit a curveball then all the tren in the world won't help that.

If you can't read an offenses pre-snap formation, all the dbol in the world won't make you a better player. Most guys take shit in order to stay healthy, and heal faster. Do they play better? Of course. But how much of that is because they FEEL better?

It's why a lot of guys use GH instead of an adrogenic or anabolic. Because of the recovery and repair ability. Not to mention he helps these guys AFTER they are done with sports.

Who cares if they use? It's ridiculous.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I would be more cool with it being used in every day society then in pro sports. They create too big of an advantage with the user compared to the non user and while I understand them 1/2 ass and the ignorance to the actual side effects I don't think anyone should be forced to use them to keep up with a career path. You would almost need to have serperate leagues. One for users and one for non users, but it's pretty obvious which one everyone would watch.

Or just have one league for users. That's basically what we have already in football (see the NFL).

[Bump]

baseball needs steroids

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Agreed. I see no reason for anabolic steroids to be illegal. Our society is hypocritical in so many ways, though, so it's not surprising.

The only reason for me, and its a good enough reason to enforce a ban in my opinion, is that steroid abuse is very, very unhealthy and can shorten lifespan. If you dont ban it, then you basically de facto require its use by all ballplayers, and you condemn them to all the damage they cause.

I believe steroids should be banned, not for the sanctity of the game, but for the sake of the players. Now, the other PED's, if we find that they are harmless or nearly harmless for long-term health, then I wont care so much about them, you basically have to work out and eat right to be a pro athlete, if its not harmful, we'd just throw whatever supplement on the list of requirements.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by alnorth

The only reason for me, and its a good enough reason to enforce a ban in my opinion, is that steroid abuse is very, very unhealthy and can shorten lifespan.

The detrimental health effects of steroids have been greatly exaggerated in the mass media. Sure, abusing steroids can be unhealthy...but abusing any drug is generally unhealthy and we don't make all of those illegal.

Here's an interview with Dr. Norman Fost on the issue of steroids in sports:

http://www.steroidlaw.com/steroid-law-45.html

And if you don't want to read all that, here's a good short speech he gave that summarizes his points:

If you dont ban it, then you basically de facto require its use by all ballplayers, and you condemn them to all the damage they cause.

One could argue that by banning them, you are simply driving the players to acquire such drugs on the black market and use them without a doctor's supervision. If you were to legalize them, you could medically monitor their use among the players, decreasing the health risks involved.

[Consistent1]

Originally Posted by alnorth

The only reason for me, and its a good enough reason to enforce a ban in my opinion, is that steroid abuse is very, very unhealthy and can shorten lifespan. If you dont ban it, then you basically de facto require its use by all ballplayers, and you condemn them to all the damage they cause.

I believe steroids should be banned, not for the sanctity of the game, but for the sake of the players. Now, the other PED's, if we find that they are harmless or nearly harmless for long-term health, then I wont care so much about them, you basically have to work out and eat right to be a pro athlete, if its not harmful, we'd just throw whatever supplement on the list of requirements.

You're crazy. Test and GH will tremendously increase your lifespan.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by alnorth

The only reason for me, and its a good enough reason to enforce a ban in my opinion, is that steroid abuse is very, very unhealthy and can shorten lifespan. If you dont ban it, then you basically de facto require its use by all ballplayers, and you condemn them to all the damage they cause.

I believe steroids should be banned, not for the sanctity of the game, but for the sake of the players. Now, the other PED's, if we find that they are harmless or nearly harmless for long-term health, then I wont care so much about them, you basically have to work out and eat right to be a pro athlete, if its not harmful, we'd just throw whatever supplement on the list of requirements.

JFC........this is what I mean.

Dumbasses.

Why do people just repeat this shit when they don't have a ****ing clue about it?

Then other dumbasses line up and go "of course steroids shorten your life span. Everyone knows that."

It's like a rumor that starts and the village idiots never get up to speed on the truth.

Did you know that prostate cancer is actually associated with having LOW test levels? And that taking testosterone actually increases your life and quality of life? Right, you didn't know that but you felt qualified enough to speak on this.

Same for GH. What do you think GH does for older people? Do tell.

You know that anavar is used on everything from treating people with aids to kids with 3rd degree burns and that it helps their body heal many times faster than without it? That it is safe and has been used for this purpose for decades?

It's funny. You could give someone deca after a muscular or tendon surgery, and their recovery time would be cut down to 1/4 of what it normally takes. But because Ben Johnson got caught beating Carl Lewis in 1988, doctors won't touch it.

We as a country and a population are ****ing morons about this shit. These people should cease to live.

I still hear dumbasses say shit like "don't you know steroids will shrink your dick. hur hur hur." It's actually your testicles that can shrink, and that some androgenics will actually make your dong BIGGER. Oh yeah that's right. Bet you didn't know that did you? They don't teach that one in "steroids are bad 101" did they?

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Not really BCD. That's kind of a myth. If you can't hit a curveball then all the tren in the world won't help that.

If you can't read an offenses pre-snap formation, all the dbol in the world won't make you a better player. Most guys take shit in order to stay healthy, and heal faster. Do they play better? Of course. But how much of that is because they FEEL better?

It's why a lot of guys use GH instead of an adrogenic or anabolic. Because of the recovery and repair ability. Not to mention he helps these guys AFTER they are done with sports.

Who cares if they use? It's ridiculous.

No, but when you do make solid contact with a ball it leaves the bat with much more velocity for someone taking PED's. Bonds doesn't hit 70+ HR's without taking whatever it was he was taking, but yes he already had the talent to hit a curve or what not. I couldn't hit a MLB fastball to save my life, but by taking PED's my softball home run total would go through the roof. Those long outs start leaving the yard.

It may not help the LB with presnap reads when they will allow him to get where he is going a step quicker then normal.

But yeah, GH probably prolonged a lot of careers especially among pitchers so the healing effects.

PED's just allow a guy with god given talent to take it to another level.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

JFC........this is what I mean.

Dumbasses.

Why do people just repeat this shit when they don't have a ****ing clue about it?

Then other dumbasses line up and go "of course steroids shorten your life span. Everyone knows that."

It's like a rumor that starts and the village idiots never get up to speed on the truth.

Did you know that prostate cancer is actually associated with having LOW test levels? And that taking testosterone actually increases your life and quality of life? Right, you didn't know that but you felt qualified enough to speak on this.

Same for GH. What do you think GH does for older people? Do tell.

You know that anavar is used on everything from treating people with aids to kids with 3rd degree burns and that it helps their body heal many times faster than without it? That it is safe and has been used for this purpose for decades?

It's funny. You could give someone deca after a muscular or tendon surgery, and their recovery time would be cut down to 1/4 of what it normally takes. But because Ben Johnson got caught beating Carl Lewis in 1988, doctors won't touch it.

We as a country and a population are ****ing morons about this shit. These people should cease to live.

I still hear dumbasses say shit like "don't you know steroids will shrink your dick. hur hur hur." It's actually your testicles that can shrink, and that some androgenics will actually make your dong BIGGER. Oh yeah that's right. Bet you didn't know that did you? They don't teach that one in "steroids are bad 101" did they?

Agreed. It's too bad these type of drugs have such a negative stigma attached. It's sad it's taken so many years for horomone therapy to start becoming more prevalent and more research taking place.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

No, but when you do make solid contact with a ball it leaves the bat with much more velocity for someone taking PED's. Bonds doesn't hit 70+ HR's without taking whatever it was he was taking, but yes he already had the talent to hit a curve or what not. I couldn't hit a MLB fastball to save my life, but by taking PED's my softball home run total would go through the roof. Those long outs start leaving the yard.

It may not help the LB with presnap reads when they will allow him to get where he is going a step quicker then normal.

But yeah, GH probably prolonged a lot of careers especially among pitchers so the healing effects.

PED's just allow a guy with god given talent to take it to another level.

And this is a problem how?

[veist]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

And this is a problem how?

I imagine the biggest problem for the leagues with PEDS is a liability one not a "preserving the integrity of the game" one. Its basically impossible to run a professional sporting league without being in violation of antitrust laws so they can't do anything to piss off people in congress and there may be some liability for them in creating a PEDs arms race environment if a player gets sick/hurt from the wrong combination of drugs or chasing the edge.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

And this is a problem how?

PED's can't help you recognize a curveball, but they can help you hit it.

Look at it this way, in real time, the difference between a 91 mph fastball and a 99 mph fastball is 100th's of a second, but that 8 mph difference is HUGE, right? Baseball is a game where 100ths of a second make the difference between a double play and a grand slam.

So let's say you're a guy that struggles to recognize a curveball. Oh you can generally pick up the spin, but usually just in time to swing over top of it for a slow roller to short. Worse still, in response to that you start trying to cheat a little bit on them and become a guess hitter. Suddenly you're batting .250 with holes in your swing you can drive a truck through (in essence, you're Rick Ankiel).

Now imagine you take the proper PEDs, many of which are known to enhance quick twitch muscles. Suddenly your bat-speed improves just a hair. Now that yacker that you don't recognize quite as well as Pujols becomes a little less filthy because you're able to hang back on it just a bit and drive your bat into the zone quicker.

Once that happens, you can start to develop a reputation as a better hitter and pitchers will nibble a little more with you. Once they start to nibble, they get behind in the count and then they have to start giving you pitches to hit or risk putting you on base.

PED's don't make shitty hitters great. But they can make good hitters better. They can make great hitters historic.

If you want to legalize it across the board - fine, whatever. There will be no historic context for statistics anymore, but shit happens. Though be prepared for a bizarre little pandora's box, IMO. As soon as the cap comes off, players will absolutely race to inject themselves with the most potent shit possible and you'll end up with some hairy drawbacks sooner or later.

But don't try to argue that they only make a nominal difference. A) In baseball, a nominal difference is actually pretty damn significant and B) I simply disagree that the difference is only nominal.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

PED's can't help you recognize a curveball, but they can help you hit it.

Look at it this way, in real time, the difference between a 91 mph fastball and a 99 mph fastball is 100th's of a second, but that 8 mph difference is HUGE, right? Baseball is a game where 100ths of a second make the difference between a double play and a grand slam.

So let's say you're a guy that struggles to recognize a curveball. Oh you can generally pick up the spin, but usually just in time to swing over top of it for a slow roller to short. Worse still, in response to that you start trying to cheat a little bit on them and become a guess hitter. Suddenly you're batting .250 with holes in your swing you can drive a truck through (in essence, you're Rick Ankiel).

Now imagine you take the proper PEDs, many of which are known to enhance quick twitch muscles. Suddenly your bat-speed improves just a hair. Now that yacker that you don't recognize quite as well as Pujols becomes a little less filthy because you're able to hang back on it just a bit and drive your bat into the zone quicker.

Once that happens, you can start to develop a reputation as a better hitter and pitchers will nibble a little more with you. Once they start to nibble, they get behind in the count and then they have to start giving you pitches to hit or risk putting you on base.

PED's don't make shitty hitters great. But they can make good hitters better. They can make great hitters historic.

If you want to legalize it across the board - fine, whatever. There will be no historic context for statistics anymore, but shit happens. Though be prepared for a bizarre little pandora's box, IMO. As soon as the cap comes off, players will absolutely race to inject themselves with the most potent shit possible and you'll end up with some hairy drawbacks sooner or later.

But don't try to argue that they only make a nominal difference. A) In baseball, a nominal difference is actually pretty damn significant and B) I simply disagree that the difference is only nominal.

O M G

No. Just............no.

[whoman69]

Steroids simply break the balance of the game. To ignore the fact they don't flies in the face of the evidence. They render previous records irrelevent. The single season record that had been held for 36 years was broken six times in a four year period. Consider that record in 1961 was one better than the previous record set in 1927. And we're supposed to believe that a 35 year old ballplayer for the first time in major league history, actually got better with age. Those who are offense homers may not care, but they do make ballgames way too long with all the pitching changes needed in the now too common 10-8 ballgames.

Those who are undermining their health risks are citing information with normal use, which players were abusing by several fold. The number of steroid enhanced wrestlers dying from complications at a young age is proof that all your propoganda is meaningless.