Republican charges that Clinton staff trashed the White House were fraudulent - Page 2

keg in kc · 05-19-2001, 05:41 PM

[quote]No truth in White House vandal scandal, GSA reports

By DAVID GOLDSTEIN The Kansas City Star
Date: 05/17/01 22:15

WASHINGTON -- The General Services Administration has found that the White House vandalism flap earlier this year was a flop.

The agency concluded that departing members of the Clinton administration had not trashed the place during the presidential transition, as unidentified aides to President Bush and other critics had insisted.

Responding to a request from Rep. Bob Barr, a Georgia Republican, who asked for an investigation, the GSA found that nothing out of the ordinary had occurred.

"The condition of the real property was consistent with what we would expect to encounter when tenants vacate office space after an extended occupancy," according to a GSA statement.

No wholesale slashing of cords to computers, copiers and telephones, no evidence of lewd graffiti or pornographic images. GSA didn't bother to nail down reports of pranks, which were more puckish than destructive.

Among those pranks was the apparent removal, by aides to former President Bill Clinton, of the "w" key from some computer keyboards and the placing of official-looking signs on doors, saying things like "Office of Strategery," after a popular "Saturday Night Live" spoof on Bush.

But the vandal scandal, tales of torn up offices and items stolen from the presidential jet, was the hottest story in town during the early days of the Bush administration until White House furniture and last-minute pardons pushed it off the front page.

"I think it was this calculated effort to plant a damaging story," said Alex S. Jones, director of the Joan Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University. "There was a sort of fertile ground for believing anything bad."

Typical was Tony Snow, a syndicated columnist and former presidential speech writer for President Bush's father, who wrote that the White House "was a wreck." He also said that Air Force One, after taking Clinton and some aides to New York following the inauguration, "looked as if it had been stripped by a skilled band of thieves -- or perhaps wrecked by a trailer park twister."

He went on to list all manner of missing items, including silverware, porcelain dishes with the presidential seal and even candy.

"It makes one feel grateful that the seats and carpets are bolted down," Snow fumed.

Except none of it happened. An official at Andrews Air Force Base, which maintains the presidential jets, told The Kansas City Star at the height of the controversy that nothing was missing. Bush himself acknowledged the same a few days later.

And now GSA has made it official.

"They told me that there were papers that were not organized lying on the floor and on desks; there were some scratches here and there, but the bottom line was they didn't see anything really in their view that was significant and that would appear to some as real extensive damage," said Bernard Unger, director for physical infrastructure for the General Accounting Office, which asked GSA to look into the allegations.

Mark Lindsay, who oversaw the transition as Clinton's assistant for management and administration, said he was pleased that the record has been set straight.

"Because of President Clinton, this was one of the smoothest transitions in the history of the presidency," he said. "This was nothing more than just lies."

As for the critics, Barr's office didn't return calls about the GSA findings. Snow was somewhat contrite. "I'm perfectly willing to admit my error on the aircraft," he said, but added that he still believed his sources who told him about damage at the White House.

"What often happens in Washington is gossip becomes news. That's not a good thing."[/quote]

I can't provide a straight link, but if you want to see the actual story go to the Star website "local" section and do a search for author "David Goldstein".

keg in kc · 05-21-2001, 07:20 PM

If "duhbya" didn't think it was enough to warrent an investigation, then why are you so convinced that there [i]was[/i] vandalism by the outgoing staffers? Seems to me that with the current head-hunting that's prevalent in Washington (by both parties) that there isn't much reason for the President to just drop something of any magnitude that could be uses as fodder in the ongoing jihad against the commie demorats (to quote other posters on the board ;))...

NaptownChief · 05-21-2001, 07:32 PM

The Repubs in general were still wanting to drive a nail in Slick Willie but Dubya wanted anything and everything that had to do with Clinton dropped including the Pay for Pardon scandal...Dubya wanted the focus to be on him and his agenda not caught up on that dirtbag Clinton...

The Senate judiciary committee or one of those committees called for the GSA investigation when it was first learned of the alleged vandalism...Once the GSA was appointed by the committee they have to file a report, so the report was a formality...After they were appointed but before the investigation Dubya said he wanted the issue dropped and not pursued. So they had to file a report but obviously they weren't going to go against his wishes and create a incident by reporting anything of substance...

keg in kc · 05-21-2001, 07:46 PM

That still doesn't answer the question of why you believe there [i]was[/i] anything of substance.

The first story, as I recall from a week or so ago, was that the Bush administration did not keep adequate records so there was no real evidence. Now there's the GSA report that states that nothing happened beyond the removal of some 'w's from keyboards and a few mischevious signs, neither of which they felt was worth investigation. That tells me the story was fabricated by Bush's staff...

I understand the corruption that people see in Clinton and his legacy, but please, to believe Republicans are infallable or not corruptable is simply ludicrous.

NaptownChief · 05-21-2001, 07:55 PM

I have a hunch that Sen Bob Barr and his committee didn't call for an investigation just because of rumors...My guess is that they had information from credible sources...Otherwise we would see five new investigations launched every time the National Enquirer hits the news stands...:D

As for the Bush administration not keeping records, that only makes sense...Why would they be keeping records if Dubya doesn't want it to become an issue? They wouldn't...

DanT · 05-21-2001, 08:17 PM

I'm sure that if even some of the serious allegations were true, there would have been some kind of documentation in the form of purchase orders and receipts for replacement parts. I just don't see this report as disputable. The folks who sign the GSA's paychecks have nothing to gain by being told that they have a bunch of liars in their midst: this much, at least, should be obvious.

keg in kc · 05-21-2001, 08:50 PM

[quote]I have a hunch that Sen Bob Barr and his committee didn't call for an investigation just because of rumors...[/quote]

Why, exactly?

That's the double standard that irritates me so much. Every good church-going, god-fearing, genius-level intellect Republican is above question, yet every statement by a "Demorat" (or someone non-republican, more times than not...) is instantly disregarded as fallacy, lies or double-talk by commie morons.

If there was anything to this story, it would not be simply swept under the rug because the President says "make it so". An cover-up like that would be both unethical and at least skirting on downright illegality. To say 'duhbya' called of the proverbial dogs is nothing more than spin control because there was nothing real to substantiate the rumors.

The most ironic thing is that were situation reversed there'd be a hundred posts on here talking about how the Democrats viciously lied about the Republicans and it would cited as yet another example of the "liberal media" and their policy of slander.

Gaz · 05-22-2001, 06:30 AM

[quote]The most ironic thing is that were situation reversed there'd be a hundred posts on here talking about how the Democrats viciously lied about the Republicans and it would cited as yet another example of the "liberal media" and their policy of slander.[/quote]

I find it interesting that a post bemoaning the partisan nature of some folks is so blatantly partisan.

Yes, some folks would no doubt rake the Democrats over the coals, just as some folks take any excuse to rake the Republicans over the coals.

The rest of us are quite comfortable here in the middle, thanks.

xoxo~
Gaz
Bashing both sides when the opportunity presents.

keg in kc · 05-22-2001, 07:18 AM

[quote]I find it interesting that a post bemoaning the partisan nature of some folks is so blatantly partisan.[/quote]

How so, Gaz?

Facts, in the form of the GSA report, are simply being presented that demonstrate there were fraudulent claims made and then those facts are summarily ignored as some ludicrous good-will cover-up on behalf of the President. As I stated, in the quote you chose to use I might add, were the situation reversed (as has been the case often in the last 8 years) there would be crusade, if not a complete and total witch-hunt, and, as many events of the past months would demonstrate, certain members of this board would be on a crusade against the opposition, in terms likely more offensive and/or aggressive than those I used, all of which were "borrowed" from recent postings by those same folks I refer to.

There is no partisanship there that I am aware of, just simple statements of fact. I'm in the middle as much as you are, Gaz, as you should well know, and simply pointing out the flaws of the flawless right does not mean I'm acting for the benefit of the left. I did not expect this issue to be addressed here because of the political "tilt" on this board, so I felt I would bring it to people's attention to spark some conversation.

Gaz · 05-22-2001, 07:24 AM

[quote]Every good church-going, god-fearing, genius-level intellect Republican is above question, yet every statement by a "Demorat" (or someone non-republican, more times than not...) is instantly disregarded as fallacy, lies or double-talk by commie morons.[/quote]

Non-partisan?

xoxo~
Gaz
Genius-level intellect Libertarian.

keg in kc · 05-22-2001, 07:45 AM

Ironic and humorous anti-conservative hyperbole does not make me a Democrat, Gaz. Your mind must be seeing partisan phantoms.

NaptownChief · 05-22-2001, 07:47 AM

Keg,

It is fact that the GSA made a report stating minimal substance...But you are making the claims that anything in their report has to be absolute truth....You know better than that. It could be absolute truth or it could be completely fabricated cover-up...Neither one of us know. I am willing to give the report the benefit of the doubt but to claim it as absolute fact is naive...There is a lot of government reports historically and currently that are released that are complete fabrication that are put together for whatever political motivation the originator is looking to achieve.

NaptownChief · 05-22-2001, 07:54 AM

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by keg in kc [/i]
[B]Ironic and humorous anti-conservative hyperbole does not make me a Democrat, Gaz. Your mind must be seeing partisan phantoms. [/B][/QUOTE]

You and Oleman47 spend the vast majority of your political conversations attacking Republicans and defending DemoRats but try to constantly sell this "Non-Bias" plea...I'm not saying a person can't be non-partisan, but if they were truly "non-biased" the political ripping would be fairly close to 50-50, not 90-10 or 100-0 like you guys are....You guys are very biased yet try to make your arguments against Republicans seem more credible by labeling it as unbiased attacks...I don't care about the label, just what's in the package...

keg in kc · 05-22-2001, 07:56 AM

[quote]But you are making the claims that anything in their report has to be absolute truth....You know better than that. It could be absolute truth or it could be completely fabricated cover-up...Neither one of us know. I am willing to give the report the benefit of the doubt but to claim it as absolute fact is naive...[/quote]

Naive?

No more (or less) naive than treating any other source, say an internet rumor monger or a popular conservative radio host as "absolute truth". The GSA report [i]is[/i] the be-all end-all of the situation, and barring further reports, which are apparently not coming, it [i]is[/i] the absolute truth, at least the only truth we have to rely on. Anything else is paranoid speculation, rumor or conspiracy theory (three things I'm, of course, often party to since I'm a nut). You have to draw the line somewhere, at it seems clear to me the report is it...

On that note, I'm off to bed.

Can you say "completely fucked circadian rhythm"?

KCTitus · 05-22-2001, 07:56 AM

jl: in defense of oleman, he's very up front about his 'bias'. He's claimed on several occasions that he is liberal and leaning toward socialist.

NaptownChief · 05-22-2001, 08:04 AM

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by keg in kc [/i]
[B]

Naive?

No more (or less) naive than treating any other source, say an internet rumor monger or a popular conservative radio host as "absolute truth[/B][/QUOTE]

Go back and look at my post...No where in there will you find me claiming anything to being absolute truth or fact....I've seen enough in the political arena over the past 8 years to know that very little of what you see has much credibility let alone being a simple black and white matter...I just merely threw out an idea that could very easily and logically happen.

05-19-2001, 05:41 PM
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Republican charges that Clinton staff trashed the White House were fraudulent [quote]No truth in White House vandal scandal, GSA reports By DAVID GOLDSTEIN The Kansas City Star Date: 05/17/01 22:15 WASHINGTON -- The General Services Administration has found that the White House vandalism flap earlier this year was a flop. The agency concluded that departing members of the Clinton administration had not trashed the place during the presidential transition, as unidentified aides to President Bush and other critics had insisted. Responding to a request from Rep. Bob Barr, a Georgia Republican, who asked for an investigation, the GSA found that nothing out of the ordinary had occurred. "The condition of the real property was consistent with what we would expect to encounter when tenants vacate office space after an extended occupancy," according to a GSA statement. No wholesale slashing of cords to computers, copiers and telephones, no evidence of lewd graffiti or pornographic images. GSA didn't bother to nail down reports of pranks, which were more puckish than destructive. Among those pranks was the apparent removal, by aides to former President Bill Clinton, of the "w" key from some computer keyboards and the placing of official-looking signs on doors, saying things like "Office of Strategery," after a popular "Saturday Night Live" spoof on Bush. But the vandal scandal, tales of torn up offices and items stolen from the presidential jet, was the hottest story in town during the early days of the Bush administration until White House furniture and last-minute pardons pushed it off the front page. "I think it was this calculated effort to plant a damaging story," said Alex S. Jones, director of the Joan Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University. "There was a sort of fertile ground for believing anything bad." Typical was Tony Snow, a syndicated columnist and former presidential speech writer for President Bush's father, who wrote that the White House "was a wreck." He also said that Air Force One, after taking Clinton and some aides to New York following the inauguration, "looked as if it had been stripped by a skilled band of thieves -- or perhaps wrecked by a trailer park twister." He went on to list all manner of missing items, including silverware, porcelain dishes with the presidential seal and even candy. "It makes one feel grateful that the seats and carpets are bolted down," Snow fumed. Except none of it happened. An official at Andrews Air Force Base, which maintains the presidential jets, told The Kansas City Star at the height of the controversy that nothing was missing. Bush himself acknowledged the same a few days later. And now GSA has made it official. "They told me that there were papers that were not organized lying on the floor and on desks; there were some scratches here and there, but the bottom line was they didn't see anything really in their view that was significant and that would appear to some as real extensive damage," said Bernard Unger, director for physical infrastructure for the General Accounting Office, which asked GSA to look into the allegations. Mark Lindsay, who oversaw the transition as Clinton's assistant for management and administration, said he was pleased that the record has been set straight. "Because of President Clinton, this was one of the smoothest transitions in the history of the presidency," he said. "This was nothing more than just lies." As for the critics, Barr's office didn't return calls about the GSA findings. Snow was somewhat contrite. "I'm perfectly willing to admit my error on the aircraft," he said, but added that he still believed his sources who told him about damage at the White House. "What often happens in Washington is gossip becomes news. That's not a good thing."[/quote] I can't provide a straight link, but if you want to see the actual story go to the Star website "local" section and do a search for author "David Goldstein".
Posts: 58,682

05-21-2001, 07:20 PM	#16
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	If "duhbya" didn't think it was enough to warrent an investigation, then why are you so convinced that there [i]was[/i] vandalism by the outgoing staffers? Seems to me that with the current head-hunting that's prevalent in Washington (by both parties) that there isn't much reason for the President to just drop something of any magnitude that could be uses as fodder in the ongoing jihad against the commie demorats (to quote other posters on the board ;))...
Posts: 58,682

05-21-2001, 07:32 PM	#17
NaptownChief Football Pimp Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Indianapolis,IN Casino cash: $9974900	The Repubs in general were still wanting to drive a nail in Slick Willie but Dubya wanted anything and everything that had to do with Clinton dropped including the Pay for Pardon scandal...Dubya wanted the focus to be on him and his agenda not caught up on that dirtbag Clinton... The Senate judiciary committee or one of those committees called for the GSA investigation when it was first learned of the alleged vandalism...Once the GSA was appointed by the committee they have to file a report, so the report was a formality...After they were appointed but before the investigation Dubya said he wanted the issue dropped and not pursued. So they had to file a report but obviously they weren't going to go against his wishes and create a incident by reporting anything of substance... __________________ "We weren't worth a damn," the Kansas City Chiefs head coach said, shaking his head. "I'm not worth a damn. No one's worth a damn..." Former President of the Eric Downing Fan Club and Current President of the Kris"Secret Weapon"Wilson Fan Club
Posts: 4,357

05-21-2001, 07:46 PM	#18
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	That still doesn't answer the question of why you believe there [i]was[/i] anything of substance. The first story, as I recall from a week or so ago, was that the Bush administration did not keep adequate records so there was no real evidence. Now there's the GSA report that states that nothing happened beyond the removal of some 'w's from keyboards and a few mischevious signs, neither of which they felt was worth investigation. That tells me the story was fabricated by Bush's staff... I understand the corruption that people see in Clinton and his legacy, but please, to believe Republicans are infallable or not corruptable is simply ludicrous.
Posts: 58,682

05-21-2001, 07:55 PM	#19
NaptownChief Football Pimp Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Indianapolis,IN Casino cash: $9974900	I have a hunch that Sen Bob Barr and his committee didn't call for an investigation just because of rumors...My guess is that they had information from credible sources...Otherwise we would see five new investigations launched every time the National Enquirer hits the news stands...:D As for the Bush administration not keeping records, that only makes sense...Why would they be keeping records if Dubya doesn't want it to become an issue? They wouldn't... __________________ "We weren't worth a damn," the Kansas City Chiefs head coach said, shaking his head. "I'm not worth a damn. No one's worth a damn..." Former President of the Eric Downing Fan Club and Current President of the Kris"Secret Weapon"Wilson Fan Club
Posts: 4,357

05-21-2001, 08:17 PM	#20
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $4451711	I'm sure that if even some of the serious allegations were true, there would have been some kind of documentation in the form of purchase orders and receipts for replacement parts. I just don't see this report as disputable. The folks who sign the GSA's paychecks have nothing to gain by being told that they have a bunch of liars in their midst: this much, at least, should be obvious.
Posts: 4,225

05-21-2001, 08:50 PM	#21
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	[quote]I have a hunch that Sen Bob Barr and his committee didn't call for an investigation just because of rumors...[/quote] Why, exactly? That's the double standard that irritates me so much. Every good church-going, god-fearing, genius-level intellect Republican is above question, yet every statement by a "Demorat" (or someone non-republican, more times than not...) is instantly disregarded as fallacy, lies or double-talk by commie morons. If there was anything to this story, it would not be simply swept under the rug because the President says "make it so". An cover-up like that would be both unethical and at least skirting on downright illegality. To say 'duhbya' called of the proverbial dogs is nothing more than spin control because there was nothing real to substantiate the rumors. The most ironic thing is that were situation reversed there'd be a hundred posts on here talking about how the Democrats viciously lied about the Republicans and it would cited as yet another example of the "liberal media" and their policy of slander.
Posts: 58,682

05-22-2001, 06:30 AM	#22
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	Overzealous hyperbole [quote]The most ironic thing is that were situation reversed there'd be a hundred posts on here talking about how the Democrats viciously lied about the Republicans and it would cited as yet another example of the "liberal media" and their policy of slander.[/quote] I find it interesting that a post bemoaning the partisan nature of some folks is so blatantly partisan. Yes, some folks would no doubt rake the Democrats over the coals, just as some folks take any excuse to rake the Republicans over the coals. The rest of us are quite comfortable here in the middle, thanks. xoxo~ Gaz Bashing both sides when the opportunity presents.
Posts: 5,911

05-22-2001, 07:18 AM	#23
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	[quote]I find it interesting that a post bemoaning the partisan nature of some folks is so blatantly partisan.[/quote] How so, Gaz? Facts, in the form of the GSA report, are simply being presented that demonstrate there were fraudulent claims made and then those facts are summarily ignored as some ludicrous good-will cover-up on behalf of the President. As I stated, in the quote you chose to use I might add, were the situation reversed (as has been the case often in the last 8 years) there would be crusade, if not a complete and total witch-hunt, and, as many events of the past months would demonstrate, certain members of this board would be on a crusade against the opposition, in terms likely more offensive and/or aggressive than those I used, all of which were "borrowed" from recent postings by those same folks I refer to. There is no partisanship there that I am aware of, just simple statements of fact. I'm in the middle as much as you are, Gaz, as you should well know, and simply pointing out the flaws of the flawless right does not mean I'm acting for the benefit of the left. I did not expect this issue to be addressed here because of the political "tilt" on this board, so I felt I would bring it to people's attention to spark some conversation.
Posts: 58,682

05-22-2001, 07:24 AM	#24
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	A new definition of "non-partisan" hits the shelf. [quote]Every good church-going, god-fearing, genius-level intellect Republican is above question, yet every statement by a "Demorat" (or someone non-republican, more times than not...) is instantly disregarded as fallacy, lies or double-talk by commie morons.[/quote] Non-partisan? xoxo~ Gaz Genius-level intellect Libertarian.
Posts: 5,911

05-22-2001, 07:45 AM	#25
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Ironic and humorous anti-conservative hyperbole does not make me a Democrat, Gaz. Your mind must be seeing partisan phantoms.
Posts: 58,682

05-22-2001, 07:47 AM	#26
NaptownChief Football Pimp Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Indianapolis,IN Casino cash: $9974900	Keg, It is fact that the GSA made a report stating minimal substance...But you are making the claims that anything in their report has to be absolute truth....You know better than that. It could be absolute truth or it could be completely fabricated cover-up...Neither one of us know. I am willing to give the report the benefit of the doubt but to claim it as absolute fact is naive...There is a lot of government reports historically and currently that are released that are complete fabrication that are put together for whatever political motivation the originator is looking to achieve. __________________ "We weren't worth a damn," the Kansas City Chiefs head coach said, shaking his head. "I'm not worth a damn. No one's worth a damn..." Former President of the Eric Downing Fan Club and Current President of the Kris"Secret Weapon"Wilson Fan Club
Posts: 4,357

05-22-2001, 07:54 AM	#27
NaptownChief Football Pimp Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Indianapolis,IN Casino cash: $9974900	[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by keg in kc [/i] [B]Ironic and humorous anti-conservative hyperbole does not make me a Democrat, Gaz. Your mind must be seeing partisan phantoms. [/B][/QUOTE] You and Oleman47 spend the vast majority of your political conversations attacking Republicans and defending DemoRats but try to constantly sell this "Non-Bias" plea...I'm not saying a person can't be non-partisan, but if they were truly "non-biased" the political ripping would be fairly close to 50-50, not 90-10 or 100-0 like you guys are....You guys are very biased yet try to make your arguments against Republicans seem more credible by labeling it as unbiased attacks...I don't care about the label, just what's in the package... __________________ "We weren't worth a damn," the Kansas City Chiefs head coach said, shaking his head. "I'm not worth a damn. No one's worth a damn..." Former President of the Eric Downing Fan Club and Current President of the Kris"Secret Weapon"Wilson Fan Club
Posts: 4,357

05-22-2001, 07:56 AM	#28
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	[quote]But you are making the claims that anything in their report has to be absolute truth....You know better than that. It could be absolute truth or it could be completely fabricated cover-up...Neither one of us know. I am willing to give the report the benefit of the doubt but to claim it as absolute fact is naive...[/quote] Naive? No more (or less) naive than treating any other source, say an internet rumor monger or a popular conservative radio host as "absolute truth". The GSA report [i]is[/i] the be-all end-all of the situation, and barring further reports, which are apparently not coming, it [i]is[/i] the absolute truth, at least the only truth we have to rely on. Anything else is paranoid speculation, rumor or conspiracy theory (three things I'm, of course, often party to since I'm a nut). You have to draw the line somewhere, at it seems clear to me the report is it... On that note, I'm off to bed. Can you say "completely fucked circadian rhythm"?
Posts: 58,682

05-22-2001, 07:56 AM	#29
KCTitus Archivist Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ethernet Casino cash: $9892732	jl: in defense of oleman, he's very up front about his 'bias'. He's claimed on several occasions that he is liberal and leaning toward socialist.
Posts: 26,193

05-22-2001, 08:04 AM	#30
NaptownChief Football Pimp Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Indianapolis,IN Casino cash: $9974900	[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by keg in kc [/i] [B] Naive? No more (or less) naive than treating any other source, say an internet rumor monger or a popular conservative radio host as "absolute truth[/B][/QUOTE] Go back and look at my post...No where in there will you find me claiming anything to being absolute truth or fact....I've seen enough in the political arena over the past 8 years to know that very little of what you see has much credibility let alone being a simple black and white matter...I just merely threw out an idea that could very easily and logically happen. __________________ "We weren't worth a damn," the Kansas City Chiefs head coach said, shaking his head. "I'm not worth a damn. No one's worth a damn..." Former President of the Eric Downing Fan Club and Current President of the Kris"Secret Weapon"Wilson Fan Club
Posts: 4,357