Moving Nationally or Internationally

[BIG_DADDY]

If you were going to move would you consider an international move ever? If you were going to pick another spot in the good old USA where would you like to be? For me I could see Austin in my not too distant future. If our country goes hard left I would have to look at the options at that time but I am going to start the process next year. I would love to look at Panama. I have seen several clients and friends move over the years. The most popular places have been Costa Rica, Philippines, Equador and Brazil but I know a lot of Brazilians. i can't forget Monaco for those with a lot of cash.

[KCUnited]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Heh. I intended to mention that. They put their signature style on the house.

I liked that both the Sedona and Tucson house had guest cottages, though. I'd like to have a guest cottage.

I really liked the Tucson house and while it wouldn't fit the style for that particular house, a pool would be a must for me there.

[DeepPurple]

I live in central Florida a few miles from Orlando and moved back here 9 years ago after being in the north for 20 plus years. I grew up in St. Petersburg and if I were single, I would trade in the SUV for a Jeep Wrangler and buy a condo on Pensacola Beach, Panama City Beach or Clearwater Beach or in that area.



I would buy a Seedoo or Waverunner, or at least rent one.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by lewdog

Lots of “off the path” hiking spots to avoid the crowds.

Only been once?!?!

Sedona is stunning.

Yeah, we have plenty of those without driving to Sedona.

The route going into Jerome, Cottonwood, Sedona, and to Flagstaff is pretty awesome.

And I take that back, I've been there twice.
A few years ago, to some overpriced winery and the main strip, which was pretty forgettable (cool and rainy, but still a lot of people). Also made a visit to some hotel/resort that had a really nice view from their outdoor patio, with some good drinks.

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Yeah, we have plenty of those without driving to Sedona.

The route going into Jerome, Cottonwood, Sedona, and to Flagstaff is pretty awesome.

And I take that back, I've been there twice.
A few years ago, to some overpriced winery and the main strip, which was pretty forgettable (cool and rainy, but still a lot of people). Also made a visit to some hotel/resort that had a really nice view from their outdoor patio, with some good drinks.

Northern Arizona is just amazing. Driving those roads through those towns is awesome, especially in the beautiful weather here most of the year. Good break from the heat in Hell Valley right now.

[scho63]

The road that parallels 17 as if you were going to Sedona but going to Flagstaff instead is a gorgeous ride.

Rt 179 north into 89A north connecting back into Rt 17.

Tons of great places to stop for photos

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by DeepPurple

I live in central Florida a few miles from Orlando and moved back here 9 years ago after being in the north for 20 plus years. I grew up in St. Petersburg and if I were single, I would trade in the SUV for a Jeep Wrangler and buy a condo on Pensacola Beach, Panama City Beach or Clearwater Beach or in that area.

...

What do you know about Palm Bay and Tampa? They seem like legit contenders.

[Rain Man]

And now, the moment you've been waiting for. The top five scores in my "Potential Retirement Destinations" analysis. See the picture for scores and details.

Sample houses:

1 – Las Vegas (NV)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-35297?view=qv

2 – Albuquerque (NM)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-79104?view=qv

3 – Silver City (NM)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-00003?view=qv

4 – Rio Rancho (NM)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-41600?view=qv

5 - Portugal
https://www.realtor.com/internationa...-120047510719/

Summary (in ascending order)

Portugal – Okay, starting out I’ll note that this probably should be ranked lower. I assumed a similar tax rate to Denver, and a quick glance at it now indicates that it may be a higher tax rate. I’m not going to dive into all of the details of international taxation at this point, though, so maybe there are loopholes or deductions that I don’t know about. But setting that aside, it’s a pretty nice location. First, the climate is top notch, with winter lows of 59 with no snow and summer highs of 83. There’s a reason that they call it a “Mediterranean climate”. The house is pretty expensive, and not as big as I could get in the States, but it’s very nice. Obviously there are language barriers to overcome, but it would also be a great base to explore Europe in retirement. This is a winner more for climate than housing, but it’s enough of a contender that I may look into it more. I’d love to do cheap travel in Europe. Honestly, I’d probably look more at renting there instead of buying.

Rio Rancho (NM) – My in-laws lived here for a while so I’m somewhat familiar with it. It’s a suburb of Albuquerque and while I’m not a suburban guy I remember it being very affordable so I put it into the mix. Add about 4 degrees in the winter and the summer compared to Denver, so that’s neutral other than the fact that it gets far less snow. So climate is a win since we’re hoping to avoid snow more than cold. Housing is ludicrously inexpensive, and I can get a good-sized house far cheaper than almost any other city we’ve looked at. (Warning: the sample house shows some broncos stuff, but I can fumigate before I move in.) Even if it’s not the friendliest tax environment, this equates to a very affordable location where I can cut 1.5 years off my retirement schedule. It’s a good-sized community so you’re close to services, too. This place is very hard to beat.

Silver City (NM) – I know nothing about this place other than seeing it on several “best small towns to retire in” lists. It’s ridiculously affordable on housing, cutting 2 full years off my retirement schedule, though the housing market is pretty lean given the small size. The climate is one of the best on the list, because it’s notably warmer in the winter with almost no snow, and actually slightly cooler in the summer. The big worry about this place is just the remoteness. It’s a small town and it’s not near any bigger towns. It’s 2.5 hours from El Paso as the largest metro area. In the long run, that might be a problem, but it’s really tempting.

Albuquerque (NM) – Even though Albuquerque is right next to Rio Rancho, it’s two degrees warmer in winter and two degrees cooler in summer. That’s a win. There’s relatively minor snow, getting 3.5 feet less than Denver does. The cost of living is higher than Rio Rancho, and only a little cheaper than Denver, so it saves .5 years toward retirement. The housing market there is great, with all sorts of interesting homes. I’ve spent a lot of time there over the years and it’s not really walkable, but it’s a nice city. So in summary the climate’s nice and the market is affordable and you can pick from a lot of nice houses. I kind of figured this would be a strong contender, and it is.

Las Vegas (NV) - #1 on the list? It surprised me. Las Vegas combines big-city services with an affordable housing market and low taxes to form a great combination. The sample house is architecturally rather blah, but it shows what you get for you money. And I kind of want a pool. It would cut 1.5 years off my retirement schedule, so it’s very affordable. The winter climate is close to ideal with January lows of 37 degrees, but of course … summer. Summers are brutal. I’d just have to spend a lot of time in the pool and at air-conditioned lounge acts on the strip, I guess. My wife is anti-Vegas, but she also doesn’t know about their tax structure. I wasn’t expecting this to be a contender, but it gets the highest score of all the cities I looked at, so I’m game.

[Rain Man]

So what good cities did I miss on my list? I can add them into the rankings. I heard a suggestion for Prescott (AZ), and I probably should include Scottsdale and/or Phoenix. I excluded Phoenix originally because I figured I wouldn't relocate from one large metro to another one that is on the surface of the sun, but I think Phoenix is pretty cheap compared to Denver.

Just for fun, I should also pick some small town somewhere where housing is really cheap in a low tax state. Maybe Ely, NV, or Muleshoe, TX.

I also excluded Salt Lake City, which I find interesting, but I think the odds are zero that my wife would move there so I didn't include it.

[CanadaKC]

Come on up to Vancouver! Your dollar worth a lot more than ours and I need more Chiefs fans up here! Apparently a lot of Americans are trying to claim refugee status up here on the grounds they are escaping an unsafe country. Not shitting ya.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

So what good cities did I miss on my list? I can add them into the rankings. I heard a suggestion for Prescott (AZ), and I probably should include Scottsdale and/or Phoenix. I excluded Phoenix originally because I figured I wouldn't relocate from one large metro to another one that is on the surface of the sun, but I think Phoenix is pretty cheap compared to Denver.

Just for fun, I should also pick some small town somewhere where housing is really cheap in a low tax state. Maybe Ely, NV, or Muleshoe, TX.

I also excluded Salt Lake City, which I find interesting, but I think the odds are zero that my wife would move there so I didn't include it.

Anthem might be a good alternative to Phoenix. It's a far north suburb around ~2000', I believe... checking the weather, it's 97 there right now and 114 in Phoenix (I was going to guess 5-10 degrees cooler, so that's a bit surprising and maybe not normal). Still only ~30-40 minutes to Scottsdale, ~30 minutes to downtown Phoenix.

Don't forget Ventura/Oxnard, California... seems surprisingly affordable for being on the coast and not terribly far from LA. Granted, the taxes will still suck.

[Bearcat]

A little surprised by Vegas, too.... why is your wife against it?

I've only stayed off the strip once, which definitely helps with any thoughts that Vegas is entirely contained inside a few blocks of hotels and casinos. Granted, their concert/hockey arena and now the Raiders' Roomba are at the end of strip as well, and even the airport is right there.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by CanadaKC

Come on up to Vancouver! Your dollar worth a lot more than ours and I need more Chiefs fans up here! Apparently a lot of Americans are trying to claim refugee status up here on the grounds they are escaping an unsafe country. Not shitting ya.

Well, gosh, I am the wretched refuse of my country's teeming shore. Does your country like refugees like that, too?

I put Vancouver on the list but it scored poorly based on some assumptions I was making. However, I put almost no effort into the non-USA tax studies. What are taxes like in Canada for an expat American?

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Anthem might be a good alternative to Phoenix. It's a far north suburb around ~2000', I believe... checking the weather, it's 97 there right now and 114 in Phoenix (I was going to guess 5-10 degrees cooler, so that's a bit surprising and maybe not normal). Still only ~30-40 minutes to Scottsdale, ~30 minutes to downtown Phoenix.

Don't forget Ventura/Oxnard, California... seems surprisingly affordable for being on the coast and not terribly far from LA. Granted, the taxes will still suck.

I'll add Anthem, which I've never heard of, and Ventura/Oxnard. Phoenix kind of scares me on temperature.

Interestingly, I did a quick look at Ventura/Oxnard and one challenge is finding single-level homes. I think maybe California land is expensive enough that two-story homes are more common. But I'll find one and measure it.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

A little surprised by Vegas, too.... why is your wife against it?

I've only stayed off the strip once, which definitely helps with any thoughts that Vegas is entirely contained inside a few blocks of hotels and casinos. Granted, their concert/hockey arena and now the Raiders' Roomba are at the end of strip as well, and even the airport is right there.

Her nominal reason is that it's too hot, but I think she also dislikes the reputation of the city. She's only been there once and we stayed on the Strip, and she's really not into the casino scene at all. But I think big chunks of Vegas have nothing to do with the casino scene, so that shouldn't be particularly relevant to a long-term living decision.

At some point I'll give her a powerpoint presentation or something, and we'll see if I can broaden her thinking. However, I'm not a fan of intense sun and 100+ degree days, so I'm not sure how hard I'd push for it despite the scoring.

I think the big lesson here is that a state with a lower tax structure can really impact your retirement lifestyle if the housing is also affordable. Nevada, Alaska, and Florida really jump out as being friendly. South Dakota and (surprisingly) Washington are also pretty good.

[Rain Man]

Recognizing that my scoring scheme is not going to be perfect, I would look at the cities and identify the following as being particularly interesting:

Albuquerque/Rio Rancho (NM)
Sedona (AZ)
Port Angeles (WA)
Ketchikan (AK)
Tampa (FL)

There are others that are very interesting such Las Vegas (NV), Bullhead City (AZ), Silver City (NM), Cocoa Beach (FL), Eugene (OR), etc., but they often have one glaring weakness that I think is understated in the scoring that might be a fatal flaw.