Teicher-Chiefs pursue the perfect mix

C-Mac · 01-08-2006, 07:45 AM

Chiefs pursue the perfect mix
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star
Herman Edwards is expected to be introduced as the Chiefs’ new head coach at a news conference Monday. Then, with a defensive-minded boss to go along with their high-powered offense, will all finally be right with the Chiefs’ world?
Maybe, and maybe not.
“I’m not positive about how that whole cocktail is going to mix,” CBS television analyst Randy Cross said. “Just because (Edwards) was recruited by Carl Peterson and played for Dick Vermeil doesn’t mean he is Dick Vermeil.”
In sending the Chiefs’ fourth-round draft pick to the Jets for Edwards, Peterson is trying for the best of both worlds. He is hoping at long last the Chiefs will respond defensively, something they never did for Vermeil or coordinator Gunther Cunningham, while retaining at least most of their offensive might.
That’s a tricky balance for any coach. In the Peterson era, the Chiefs have never been able to master it. They were competitive for most of their seasons under Marty Schottenheimer and Cunningham and their defensive philosophy, but never reached the Super Bowl.
They were then brilliant offensively in the five Vermeil years, but were undermined by a consistently lousy defense. Last week, Peterson indicated finding that balance would be a consideration as he searched for a new head coach.
“Specific to the philosophy of the Kansas City Chiefs going forward, I have to make that decision,” Peterson said. “We did a dramatic change from a player personnel standpoint and from a financial standpoint (under Vermeil). My two previous head coaches were defensive coaches. When I hired Dick, I knew where he was going to go. That’s why I made the trade for Trent (Green), I made the trade for Willie Roaf and brought in some other offensive people: Eddie Kennison, Priest Holmes.”
It doesn’t figure to be easy under Edwards. He showed no interest in his five New York seasons in a fast-paced offense. His teams were more conservative and relied mainly on the running game.
The Chiefs have the back to run that type of offense in Larry Johnson. The rest of their pieces were assembled for the type of offense the Chiefs used under Vermeil. Green hasn’t played in any other type of system since arriving in the NFL in 1993.
At least one offensive player, Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters, indicated many veterans wouldn’t accept big changes to the system.
“Anybody who comes in here will realize this is a pretty good machine as it is,” Waters said before the Chiefs hired Edwards. “They might want to put a little change here or a little change there, but this offense has been put together well. It would be a mistake to tinker with it too much.
“This is a veteran football team. That type of change would meet with a little resistance.”
Even if Edwards doesn’t want to scale back the offense, keeping pace may be difficult without offensive coordinator Al Saunders. Much of their success can be traced to Saunders’ willingness to continually attack the defense and because he fitted the system so well to the abilities of his players.
Saunders has been interviewing for head-coaching jobs since the Chiefs ended their season. He met with Peterson about the Chiefs’ vacancy before they hired Edwards and with Vikings officials before they hired Brad Childress.
He also talked with the Texans, will probably do so this week with the Lions and may wind up speaking with the Raiders.
The contracts of Saunders and the other Chiefs assistant coaches are up at the end of the month. The Chiefs may try to keep as many other offensive coaches in place as they can, but one assistant said nobody had yet contacted him about a contract extension.
The Chiefs had remarkable coaching-staff stability under Vermeil, particularly on offense. Saunders, Mike Solari (offensive line), Charlie Joiner (wide receivers) and James Saxon (running backs) were part of Vermeil’s staff from start to finish.
That stability, Cross said, was a major factor in the Chiefs’ success.
On defense, Edwards’ philosophy is far different from that of Cunningham, who for that reason probably wouldn’t be welcomed on the new staff.
Edwards prefers a defensive system known as cover 2, which features plenty of zone coverage and few blitzes. Cunningham favors a system with man-to-man coverage and pressure on the quarterback, often with exotic blitzes.

milkman · 01-08-2006, 08:52 AM

One would assume, and hope, now that Carl has his HC in place that the offensive assistants are contacted about extentions, post haste.

chiefsfaninNC · 01-08-2006, 08:57 AM

To hell with the assistants. Who is the OC?

milkman · 01-08-2006, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefsfaninNC

To hell with the assistants. Who is the OC?

Who the OC will be is a very important issue, but you can't dismiss the job these guys have done either.

How well a HC does is determined to a great extent by his staff, and by extention, an OC's performance is is influenced by how good his staff is.

NaptownChief · 01-08-2006, 09:29 AM

Herm Average, as with most coaches unless they were great coordinators themselves, will only be as good as the coordinators he can put on his staff.

If he brings in very good coordinators then it should be a very good team, anything less will probably lead to a struggle. Going through 3 OC's in 5 years at NY we know he doesn't really have his own philosophy on that side of the ball nor does he have any good connection with an existing OC that would be worth bringing in. That probably bodes well for the current system staying somewhat in place.

**MahiMike** · 01-08-2006, 09:35 AM

This article pretty much sums up what I've been trying to say. I don't care if Saunders gives Herm copious notes on how to coach the offense down to the minute details, every coach/person will interpret them differently.

Not hiring Saunders is gonna backfire in so many ways. Now even the veterans are warning about their displeasure...

Dammit Carl!!!

**Bowser** · 01-08-2006, 09:47 AM

ANY coach that comes in here and tries to tinker with this offense deserves to be flogged in public. But remember, even Marty Schottenheimer realized what he has on offense in San Diego. Edwards would be a retart to try and re-introduce this team as a "Three Yards and a Cloud of Dust" type of offense, Larry Johnson or no.

As for the defense, I don't think we will automatically jump to a Cover 2 phillosophy. We just don't have the personnel to run it as our base defense. I can see musch of the same for our D in 2006, with new wrinkles.

**mlyonsd** · 01-08-2006, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Mac

The Chiefs may try to keep as many other offensive coaches in place as they can, but one assistant said nobody had yet contacted him about a contract extension.

I suppose this makes sense....you have to have your HC signed before offering extensions to assistants.

But Jesus H Christ, at least talk to them about it and show interest in them staying.

philfree · 01-08-2006, 10:52 AM

I wonder what was discussed when Carl intervied Al Saunders last week? I bet Carl asked Al if he'd consider working under Herman Edwards as OC if the price was right. Every thing I read says Saunders is gone if he doesn't get to be HC but I've never heard it from him. Is there any chance he'll stay to run the offense with Edwards as the HC? It wouldn't suprise me to see Saunders do what he did two years ago and take some big money to stick around.

PhilFree

**mlyonsd** · 01-08-2006, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

I wonder what was discussed when Carl intervied Al Saunders last week? I bet Carl asked Al if he'd consider working under Herman Edwards as OC if the price was right. Every thing I read says Saunders is gone if he doesn't get to be HC but I've never heard it from him. Is there any chance he'll stay to run the offense with Edwards as the HC? It wouldn't suprise me to see Saunders do what he did two years ago and take some big money to stick around.

PhilFree

I'd easily match the Redskin's contract for their DC Williams.

Course, if I had Lamar's money beer would be free at Arrowhead.

milkman · 01-08-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

I wonder what was discussed when Carl intervied Al Saunders last week? I bet Carl asked Al if he'd consider working under Herman Edwards as OC if the price was right. Every thing I read says Saunders is gone if he doesn't get to be HC but I've never heard it from him. Is there any chance he'll stay to run the offense with Edwards as the HC? It wouldn't suprise me to see Saunders do what he did two years ago and take some big money to stick around.

PhilFree

I just can't see it.

What would you do?

You've worked for the same company for 15 of the last 18 years.
You been passed up for a promotion three times, twice by guys that never proved they were as competent at their jobs as you have been.

You've shown over the last 5 years that you are the best at what you do.

Would you stick around, even for more money?

philfree · 01-08-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideWinder

I just can't see it.

What would you do?

You've worked for the same company for 15 of the last 18 years.
You been passed up for a promotion three times, twice by guys that never proved they were as competent at their jobs as you have been.

You've shown over the last 5 years that you are the best at what you do.

Would you stick around, even for more money?

I can see that but he had the chance to leave two years ago to be a HC for Al Davis and he stayed n KC. Stranger things have happened. See Gunther as Chiefs DC under the guy who took his job.

PhilFree

**jAZ** · 01-08-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Mac

On defense, Edwards’ philosophy is far different from that of Cunningham, who for that reason probably wouldn’t be welcomed on the new staff.
Edwards prefers a defensive system known as cover 2, which features plenty of zone coverage and few blitzes. Cunningham favors a system with man-to-man coverage and pressure on the quarterback, often with exotic blitzes.

Oddly enough, this is the only part of the article that troubled me at all. I've heard others point out that a change to the cover-2 system will require a change in personel (once again). I assume that's true and that is a concern given our moves last season.

It also concerns me because wasn't that the same basic system that we moved away from with Greg Robinson? I'm not saying it can't work, but that's some bad memories.

milkman · 01-08-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

I can see that but he had the chance to leave two years ago to be a HC for Al Davis and he stayed n KC. Stranger things have happened. See Gunther as Chiefs DC under the guy who took his job.

PhilFree

I think that Al felt he still had an opportunity in KC, and was probably smart enough to stay the **** away from Al Davis.

milkman · 01-08-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ

Oddly enough, this is the only part of the article that troubled me at all. I've heard others point out that a change to the cover-2 system will require a change in personel (once again). I assume that's true and that is a concern given our moves last season.

It also concerns me because wasn't that the same basic system that we moved away from with Greg Robinson? I'm not saying it can't work, but that's some bad memories.

The schemes are similiar.

The difference is philosphy.

Spinner's scheme was a passive one.

Kiffen's is aggressive.

As for personnel, we are essentially looking at better talent in the defensive front, something that we need regardless of scheme, and more speed at safety.

01-08-2006, 07:45 AM
C-Mac Lurker Extraordinaire Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wally World Casino cash: $2313699	Teicher-Chiefs pursue the perfect mix Chiefs pursue the perfect mix By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star Herman Edwards is expected to be introduced as the Chiefs’ new head coach at a news conference Monday. Then, with a defensive-minded boss to go along with their high-powered offense, will all finally be right with the Chiefs’ world? Maybe, and maybe not. “I’m not positive about how that whole cocktail is going to mix,” CBS television analyst Randy Cross said. “Just because (Edwards) was recruited by Carl Peterson and played for Dick Vermeil doesn’t mean he is Dick Vermeil.” In sending the Chiefs’ fourth-round draft pick to the Jets for Edwards, Peterson is trying for the best of both worlds. He is hoping at long last the Chiefs will respond defensively, something they never did for Vermeil or coordinator Gunther Cunningham, while retaining at least most of their offensive might. That’s a tricky balance for any coach. In the Peterson era, the Chiefs have never been able to master it. They were competitive for most of their seasons under Marty Schottenheimer and Cunningham and their defensive philosophy, but never reached the Super Bowl. They were then brilliant offensively in the five Vermeil years, but were undermined by a consistently lousy defense. Last week, Peterson indicated finding that balance would be a consideration as he searched for a new head coach. “Specific to the philosophy of the Kansas City Chiefs going forward, I have to make that decision,” Peterson said. “We did a dramatic change from a player personnel standpoint and from a financial standpoint (under Vermeil). My two previous head coaches were defensive coaches. When I hired Dick, I knew where he was going to go. That’s why I made the trade for Trent (Green), I made the trade for Willie Roaf and brought in some other offensive people: Eddie Kennison, Priest Holmes.” It doesn’t figure to be easy under Edwards. He showed no interest in his five New York seasons in a fast-paced offense. His teams were more conservative and relied mainly on the running game. The Chiefs have the back to run that type of offense in Larry Johnson. The rest of their pieces were assembled for the type of offense the Chiefs used under Vermeil. Green hasn’t played in any other type of system since arriving in the NFL in 1993. At least one offensive player, Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters, indicated many veterans wouldn’t accept big changes to the system. “Anybody who comes in here will realize this is a pretty good machine as it is,” Waters said before the Chiefs hired Edwards. “They might want to put a little change here or a little change there, but this offense has been put together well. It would be a mistake to tinker with it too much. “This is a veteran football team. That type of change would meet with a little resistance.” Even if Edwards doesn’t want to scale back the offense, keeping pace may be difficult without offensive coordinator Al Saunders. Much of their success can be traced to Saunders’ willingness to continually attack the defense and because he fitted the system so well to the abilities of his players. Saunders has been interviewing for head-coaching jobs since the Chiefs ended their season. He met with Peterson about the Chiefs’ vacancy before they hired Edwards and with Vikings officials before they hired Brad Childress. He also talked with the Texans, will probably do so this week with the Lions and may wind up speaking with the Raiders. The contracts of Saunders and the other Chiefs assistant coaches are up at the end of the month. The Chiefs may try to keep as many other offensive coaches in place as they can, but one assistant said nobody had yet contacted him about a contract extension. The Chiefs had remarkable coaching-staff stability under Vermeil, particularly on offense. Saunders, Mike Solari (offensive line), Charlie Joiner (wide receivers) and James Saxon (running backs) were part of Vermeil’s staff from start to finish. That stability, Cross said, was a major factor in the Chiefs’ success. On defense, Edwards’ philosophy is far different from that of Cunningham, who for that reason probably wouldn’t be welcomed on the new staff. Edwards prefers a defensive system known as cover 2, which features plenty of zone coverage and few blitzes. Cunningham favors a system with man-to-man coverage and pressure on the quarterback, often with exotic blitzes.
Posts: 5,632

01-08-2006, 08:52 AM	#2
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	One would assume, and hope, now that Carl has his HC in place that the offensive assistants are contacted about extentions, post haste. __________________
Posts: 70,769

01-08-2006, 08:57 AM	#3
chiefsfaninNC Starter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Greensboro NC Casino cash: $10004900	To hell with the assistants. Who is the OC?
Posts: 941

01-08-2006, 09:29 AM	#5
NaptownChief Football Pimp Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Indianapolis,IN Casino cash: $9974900	Herm Average, as with most coaches unless they were great coordinators themselves, will only be as good as the coordinators he can put on his staff. If he brings in very good coordinators then it should be a very good team, anything less will probably lead to a struggle. Going through 3 OC's in 5 years at NY we know he doesn't really have his own philosophy on that side of the ball nor does he have any good connection with an existing OC that would be worth bringing in. That probably bodes well for the current system staying somewhat in place. __________________ "We weren't worth a damn," the Kansas City Chiefs head coach said, shaking his head. "I'm not worth a damn. No one's worth a damn..." Former President of the Eric Downing Fan Club and Current President of the Kris"Secret Weapon"Wilson Fan Club
Posts: 4,357

01-08-2006, 09:35 AM	#6
MahiMike He's Mahomie! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Jax, FL Casino cash: $10023443	This article pretty much sums up what I've been trying to say. I don't care if Saunders gives Herm copious notes on how to coach the offense down to the minute details, every coach/person will interpret them differently. Not hiring Saunders is gonna backfire in so many ways. Now even the veterans are warning about their displeasure... Dammit Carl!!!
Posts: 17,387

01-08-2006, 09:47 AM	#7
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $3411616	ANY coach that comes in here and tries to tinker with this offense deserves to be flogged in public. But remember, even Marty Schottenheimer realized what he has on offense in San Diego. Edwards would be a retart to try and re-introduce this team as a "Three Yards and a Cloud of Dust" type of offense, Larry Johnson or no. As for the defense, I don't think we will automatically jump to a Cover 2 phillosophy. We just don't have the personnel to run it as our base defense. I can see musch of the same for our D in 2006, with new wrinkles.
Posts: 100,705

01-08-2006, 10:52 AM	#9
philfree Indian Twitter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Free Agency Casino cash: $1616198	I wonder what was discussed when Carl intervied Al Saunders last week? I bet Carl asked Al if he'd consider working under Herman Edwards as OC if the price was right. Every thing I read says Saunders is gone if he doesn't get to be HC but I've never heard it from him. Is there any chance he'll stay to run the offense with Edwards as the HC? It wouldn't suprise me to see Saunders do what he did two years ago and take some big money to stick around. PhilFree __________________ [/SIGPIC]
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