Chiefs Props to CP!!! We essentially got 2 1st rounders for JA! - Page 2

**DaKCMan AP** · 04-23-2008, 05:37 AM

We received the Vikings 1st round pick #17 overall and BOTH of their 3rd round picks (#73 and #82).

Now, follow along here:

If you take the draft value chart, the combined value of the two 3rd round picks is 405 pts which is equivalent to the #17 or #18 pick in the 2nd round this year.

Now, a 1st round pick NEXT YEAR (2009) is equivalent to a 2nd round pick THIS YEAR (2008), meaning the #17 or #18 pick in the 2nd round is equivalent to the #17 or #18 pick overall in 2009.

Strictly from a draft value chart standard, we received the #17 overall pick in 2008 and the #17 or #18 pick overall in 2009.

Just giving credit where credit is due, and we are in great position now (if our draft board is setup correctly - a big if) to get SEVEN (7) of the top 100 players in the draft.

patteeu · 04-23-2008, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Poz

I wouldn't be praising Carl here, he was the reason why the best DE in the game wanted out in the first place. He should have extented his contract right after the commish announced his 2 game suspension - could have gotten fair value then.
The way I see it, when you have studs on the O or D line, you don't run them out of town thinking they will be easily replaced through the draft.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with what we got for him in this trade, I just wish it shouldn't have gotten to this point in the first place - thanks Carl, you dink.

I don't think you can give all the credit to Carl for getting us to this point. JA deserves a good share of it. JA is the one how racked up a couple of DUIs. JA is the one who got pissy when the team refused to give him a major contract on the heals of a substance abuse suspension even though he still had a year left to play out on his contract. And JA is the one who showed up to the 101 banquet in a freaking tuxedo t-shirt, for goodness sake.

My preference would have been for the Chiefs and JA to work out a reasonable deal to keep JA in Chiefs red for a long time, but JA made the choice that he didn't want to be here.

CoMoChief · 04-23-2008, 06:47 AM

If Matt Ryan is there at our pick we should consider trading down to BAL pick.

**DaKCMan AP** · 04-23-2008, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

Straight up? No. However, you can package those two 3rds to move up into the 2nd round - and teams have traded next year's 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick.

In fact, just last year Indy traded a 4th round pick and next year's (now 2008) 1st round pick for the 49ers 2nd round pick.

**DaKCMan AP** · 04-23-2008, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

I don't think you can give all the credit to Carl for getting us to this point. JA deserves a good share of it. JA is the one how racked up a couple of DUIs. JA is the one who got pissy when the team refused to give him a major contract on the heals of a substance abuse suspension even though he still had a year left to play out on his contract. And JA is the one who showed up to the 101 banquet in a freaking tuxedo t-shirt, for goodness sake.

My preference would have been for the Chiefs and JA to work out a reasonable deal to keep JA in Chiefs red for a long time, but JA made the choice that he didn't want to be here.

Absolutely. Both sides are responsible for how it transpired to this point, but once it got there CP made the best of it in the compensation received.

Fairplay · 04-23-2008, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

No thanks. We have 13 picks and need to get a top-5 player. If we want someone in the 12-15 range I'd rather we traded UP from #17 than DOWN from #5.

Im actually looking at this through King Carls perspective.

(El cheapskate)

If he traded down it would mean less money to pay out. I don't really agree with this, but certainly would not put it past would him. Would you?

keg in kc · 04-23-2008, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

No thanks. We have 13 picks and need to get a top-5 player. If we want someone in the 12-15 range I'd rather we traded UP from #17 than DOWN from #5.

I'd like to see us stay at 5 and go DOWN from 17, if that's in any way possible.

**alanm** · 04-23-2008, 06:59 AM

Don't tell me you actually believe that the Chiefs are going to somehow work this to their advantage?
They'll piss these picks away like they do every year. Likely drafting a bunch of camp fodder and over paid bench warmers.

KCUnited · 04-23-2008, 07:03 AM

Carl could've easily traded Allen for a 1st and a 3rd and think that he would have if the Vikes would've taking a harder stance. I think with this deal Carl can save face if we can get the Oline rebuilt. Not only did we get a 1st and 2 3rds and a better 6th, but if we can get the Oline rebuilt it gets us more bang for our buck with LJ and probably just prolonged his career by 2 years.

**Rain Man** · 04-23-2008, 07:03 AM

I've never quite understood the logic of saying that a 2nd-round pick this year is equivalent to a 1st-round pick next year. Draft picks aren't like money; there's no inflation to dwindle a player's value. Other than the risk that the NFL will shut down, it's merely a decision between immediate gratification and delayed gratification.

I recognize that in 2008 it's nicer to have a player on the field right now, but from a big-picture perspective the goal is to put the best players on the field over a specific time period. In 2018, it will be nicer to have another guy on the field then.

Ask the Redskins and the Chargers if it really helped them when Bobby Beathard would acquire 2nd-round picks on draft day by trading his next year's 1st-round picks. I don't think it was a good idea.

Put another way, how many of you would trade our 1st round pick in 2016 for a 7th-round pick next week? I would hope that no one would.

HypnotizedMonkey · 04-23-2008, 07:09 AM

Carl will get no gratitude from me. I don't think any number of draft picks could equal the talent level of Jared Allen... especially since you don't know who you're getting, and even if you DID know who you were getting, they could end up being a failure. We lost a TON of leadership in this deal. So what if he WAS problematic... he rebounded like a TRUE champion to turn his life around AND lead the league in sacks.

Call me hard-headed... but marquee players are what fill the seats.
I say PROPS to Carl for driving a marquee player out of town while setting the stage for it to happen again...
Carl... go ahead and run D-Bowe off too... he looks promising.

This move does make our inevitable #1 spot in next year's draft a bit more affordable, though... good thinking Carl. 4 years after he signs he will hate your a$$ and want to leave too!

Congrats to JA for successfully jumping from a sinking ship and getting his well-deserved payday. He will be missed on my side of the Chiefs Planet.

In closing... I'm picking the Vikings to win the SuperBowl this year... I might end up watching more of THEM than the Chiefs... for shame.

BigChiefFan · 04-23-2008, 07:09 AM

So now we have even more holes to fill. I'm glad we got some value for him, but we won't be able to replace him with a player of equal value, so the team will be even worse, IMO.

TEX · 04-23-2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I've never quite understood the logic of saying that a 2nd-round pick this year is equivalent to a 1st-round pick next year. Draft picks aren't like money; there's no inflation to dwindle a player's value. Other than the risk that the NFL will shut down, it's merely a decision between immediate gratification and delayed gratification.

I recognize that in 2008 it's nicer to have a player on the field right now, but from a big-picture perspective the goal is to put the best players on the field over a specific time period. In 2018, it will be nicer to have another guy on the field then.

Ask the Redskins and the Chargers if it really helped them when Bobby Beathard would acquire 2nd-round picks on draft day by trading his next year's 1st-round picks. I don't think it was a good idea.

Put another way, how many of you would trade our 1st round pick in 2016 for a 7th-round pick next week? I would hope that no one would.

I'm with ya.
That being said, once things got to where they are with JA, I'm glad we got what we got THIS year.

chief52 · 04-23-2008, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I've never quite understood the logic of saying that a 2nd-round pick this year is equivalent to a 1st-round pick next year. Draft picks aren't like money; there's no inflation to dwindle a player's value. Other than the risk that the NFL will shut down, it's merely a decision between immediate gratification and delayed gratification.

I recognize that in 2008 it's nicer to have a player on the field right now, but from a big-picture perspective the goal is to put the best players on the field over a specific time period. In 2018, it will be nicer to have another guy on the field then.

Ask the Redskins and the Chargers if it really helped them when Bobby Beathard would acquire 2nd-round picks on draft day by trading his next year's 1st-round picks. I don't think it was a good idea.

Put another way, how many of you would trade our 1st round pick in 2016 for a 7th-round pick next week? I would hope that no one would.

I have never understood it either. I think they got a good value for JA, but in no way did we get the value of 2 first rounders. Could those two third round choices be packaged to move up to a #1? No, you can not get someone to do that. You can read all you want in to a chart, the bottom line is will teams give you that value? The answer quite clearly is no...well, unless maybe you get Cerrano and Snyder of the Redskins on the line. No telling what dumb and dumber might do.

**DaKCMan AP** · 04-23-2008, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I've never quite understood the logic of saying that a 2nd-round pick this year is equivalent to a 1st-round pick next year.

If you look at how teams trade picks that is how they're valued.

For example, the Colts traded a 2007 4th round pick and their 2008 1st round pick for a 2007 2nd round pick.

**DaKCMan AP** · 04-23-2008, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief52

I have never understood it either. I think they got a good value for JA, but in no way did we get the value of 2 first rounders. Could those two third round choices be packaged to move up to a #1? No, you can not get someone to do that. You can read all you want in to a chart, the bottom line is will teams give you that value? The answer quite clearly is no...well, unless maybe you get Cerrano and Snyder of the Redskins on the line. No telling what dumb and dumber might do.

You don't get it. It would take 2 trades. If you look at trades that happen EVERY SINGLE YEAR, teams have traded two 3rd round picks to move up to the 2nd round and teams trade NEXT YEAR's 1st round pick (and sometimes more) for a 2nd round pick.

It's not like I'm pulling this out of my ass, those two types of trades happen all the time.

04-23-2008, 05:37 AM
DaKCMan AP Beloved & Awesome CP Celebrity Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Florida Casino cash: $6734952	Props to CP!!! We essentially got 2 1st rounders for JA! We received the Vikings 1st round pick #17 overall and BOTH of their 3rd round picks (#73 and #82). Now, follow along here: If you take the draft value chart, the combined value of the two 3rd round picks is 405 pts which is equivalent to the #17 or #18 pick in the 2nd round this year. Now, a 1st round pick NEXT YEAR (2009) is equivalent to a 2nd round pick THIS YEAR (2008), meaning the #17 or #18 pick in the 2nd round is equivalent to the #17 or #18 pick overall in 2009. Strictly from a draft value chart standard, we received the #17 overall pick in 2008 and the #17 or #18 pick overall in 2009. Just giving credit where credit is due, and we are in great position now (if our draft board is setup correctly - a big if) to get SEVEN (7) of the top 100 players in the draft.
Posts: 35,695

04-23-2008, 06:47 AM	#17
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $8052254	If Matt Ryan is there at our pick we should consider trading down to BAL pick. __________________
Posts: 39,156

04-23-2008, 06:59 AM	#22
alanm Feeling Victorian Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Nebraska/Wyoming/Colorado Casino cash: $1806436	Don't tell me you actually believe that the Chiefs are going to somehow work this to their advantage? They'll piss these picks away like they do every year. Likely drafting a bunch of camp fodder and over paid bench warmers. __________________ It bears repeating, ** Herm, Pioli, Haley, and Crennel for ing up my franchise for a goddamn decade. Buehler 445**
Posts: 33,620

04-23-2008, 07:03 AM	#23
KCUnited Cheat Death Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Land of Drincoln Casino cash: $2258244	Carl could've easily traded Allen for a 1st and a 3rd and think that he would have if the Vikes would've taking a harder stance. I think with this deal Carl can save face if we can get the Oline rebuilt. Not only did we get a 1st and 2 3rds and a better 6th, but if we can get the Oline rebuilt it gets us more bang for our buck with LJ and probably just prolonged his career by 2 years.
Posts: 33,938

04-23-2008, 07:03 AM	#24
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3288491 VARSITY	I've never quite understood the logic of saying that a 2nd-round pick this year is equivalent to a 1st-round pick next year. Draft picks aren't like money; there's no inflation to dwindle a player's value. Other than the risk that the NFL will shut down, it's merely a decision between immediate gratification and delayed gratification. I recognize that in 2008 it's nicer to have a player on the field right now, but from a big-picture perspective the goal is to put the best players on the field over a specific time period. In 2018, it will be nicer to have another guy on the field then. Ask the Redskins and the Chargers if it really helped them when Bobby Beathard would acquire 2nd-round picks on draft day by trading his next year's 1st-round picks. I don't think it was a good idea. Put another way, how many of you would trade our 1st round pick in 2016 for a 7th-round pick next week? I would hope that no one would. __________________ I'm putting random letters here as a celebration of free speech: xigrakgrah misorojeq rkemeseit.
Posts: 141,458

04-23-2008, 07:09 AM	#25
HypnotizedMonkey usually hooplah is involved Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Casino cash: $10004925	Carl will get no gratitude from me. I don't think any number of draft picks could equal the talent level of Jared Allen... especially since you don't know who you're getting, and even if you DID know who you were getting, they could end up being a failure. We lost a TON of leadership in this deal. So what if he WAS problematic... he rebounded like a TRUE champion to turn his life around AND lead the league in sacks. Call me hard-headed... but marquee players are what fill the seats. I say PROPS to Carl for driving a marquee player out of town while setting the stage for it to happen again... Carl... go ahead and run D-Bowe off too... he looks promising. This move does make our inevitable #1 spot in next year's draft a bit more affordable, though... good thinking Carl. 4 years after he signs he will hate your a$$ and want to leave too! Congrats to JA for successfully jumping from a sinking ship and getting his well-deserved payday. He will be missed on my side of the Chiefs Planet. In closing... I'm picking the Vikings to win the SuperBowl this year... I might end up watching more of THEM than the Chiefs... for shame.
Posts: 1,311

04-23-2008, 07:09 AM	#26
BigChiefFan MVP Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: In the Top 10 Casino cash: $9924205	So now we have even more holes to fill. I'm glad we got some value for him, but we won't be able to replace him with a player of equal value, so the team will be even worse, IMO. __________________ A 35 year drought can make you thirsty.
Posts: 15,777