Career Advice

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by frazod

In this economy, do you want to give up a secure, reasonably long term job that you're happy with to become the newest employee for a competitor? That's a serious consideration in this economy. And if you get greased by the new place, good chance you'll have burned your bridges with the old one.

A few years ago, I'd say jump and not think twice. But this ain't a few years ago.

For years, employers have held all the cards. I happen to have been dealt a pretty strong hand all of a sudden. My value at to current employer has never been higher (At least that's the way I perceive it), and there is another company that needs someone with exactly my skill set. I certainly don't want to overplay my hand, but I don't want to muck it, either.

The way I see it, if I don't take some sort of chance now, I might not ever do it. To further the analogy, should I wait until I have a royal flush before pushing in my chips?

[MahiMike]

Originally Posted by frazod

In this economy, do you want to give up a secure, reasonably long term job that you're happy with to become the newest employee for a competitor? That's a serious consideration in this economy. And if you get greased by the new place, good chance you'll have burned your bridges with the old one.

A few years ago, I'd say jump and not think twice. But this ain't a few years ago.

Good answer and pretty where I'm at too. I've turned down plenty of higher paying but less secure jobs. Then again, I'm 50 and not 27. At that age, there's plenty of more opportunities.

[NWTF]

Originally Posted by frazod

In this economy, do you want to give up a secure, reasonably long term job that you're happy with to become the newest employee for a competitor? That's a serious consideration in this economy. And if you get greased by the new place, good chance you'll have burned your bridges with the old one.

A few years ago, I'd say jump and not think twice. But this ain't a few years ago.

^^this^^

[cdcox]

I'm reading a book The Best Things in Life... in kind of a mid-life reflection to make the most of my remaining years. It is a philosophy book, but very practically oriented and easy to read. One item related by the author:

Most people find that once their basic needs are taken care of, making more money generally does not improve their happiness.

I would base my decision on:

Which employer would give me better opportunities to grow?
At which employer would I enjoy my working hours better?

[2bikemike]

Not sure if your just talking strictly salary, but I see too many people focusing strictly on salary. Be sure to compare benefits as well. I took a pay cut to come to work for my present employer. But I felt that the prospect of job security was better and they offered a much better retirement plan. Which dollar for dollar more than made up for the decrease in salary.

The other thing is if possible negotiate vacation time. If you have been with your present employer for 5 years you are probably getting an added week of vacation. I was able to negotiate for an added week but I still lost a week of vacation. Don't discount the cost of a week or 2 of pay if your vacation time is reduced.

[Marcellus]

Without knowing your company or boss's attitude towards these types of things, I would say keep this in mind.

You are basically holding your company hostage if you tell them about the other offer and ask them to match or meet you somewhere.

Nothing wrong with that but keep in mind, even if they match or meet you in the middle, there may be resentment going forward that could cause trouble later. Maybe not I don't know your company.

Not saying it should be that way or it's correct just saying I have seen it happen.

One approach would be just to put in notice. They will obviously ask you why and you can tell them better financial opportunity. If they want to make you a counter offer it's on them at that point.

I guess all I am saying and you may already know this, don't go in there saying or implying I am leaving unless you give me XXX. Let them approach you about what they need to do to keep you.

If they don't do that you are probably better off going where they value you more anyway.

Good luck.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Without knowing your company or boss's attitude towards these types of things, I would say keep this in mind.

You are basically holding your company hostage if you tell them about the other offer and ask them to match or meet you somewhere.

Nothing wrong with that but keep in mind, even if they match or meet you in the middle, there may be resentment going forward that could cause trouble later. Maybe not I don't know your company.

Not saying it should be that way or it's correct just saying I have seen it happen.

One approach would be just to put in notice. They will obviously ask you why and you can tell them better financial opportunity. If they want to make you a counter offer it's on them at that point.

I guess all I am saying and you may already know this, don't go in there saying or implying I am leaving unless you give me XXX. Let them approach you about what they need to do to keep you.

If they don't do that you are probably better off going where they value you more anyway.

Good luck.

I think I can be diplomatic enough about it that it's not going to be seen as me trying to hold them hostage. If I tell them that another company has made me a very compelling offer and that, while I would prefer to stay put, I can't ignore somebody waving some pretty serious dollars at me, I think they will understand where I'm coming from. I work there because they pay me, after all.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Without knowing your company or boss's attitude towards these types of things, I would say keep this in mind.

You are basically holding your company hostage if you tell them about the other offer and ask them to match or meet you somewhere.

Nothing wrong with that but keep in mind, even if they match or meet you in the middle, there may be resentment going forward that could cause trouble later. Maybe not I don't know your company.

Not saying it should be that way or it's correct just saying I have seen it happen.

One approach would be just to put in notice. They will obviously ask you why and you can tell them better financial opportunity. If they want to make you a counter offer it's on them at that point.

I guess all I am saying and you may already know this, don't go in there saying or implying I am leaving unless you give me XXX. Let them approach you about what they need to do to keep you.

If they don't do that you are probably better off going where they value you more anyway.

Good luck.

Thats pretty much how I feel. Your company should know what you are worth and if there is recruiting and competition for labor in your profession, they should know that paying too little has consequences.

If I ever decided to leave someday (I'm happy where I'm at now), I'd pretty much follow what you describe here.

My only other piece of advice is not to make a promise that you cant keep. Don't tell company B that you'll come if they offer +25% and then go back to company A for a match.

Following a long interview process and offer a long time ago for my first job out of college, I didn't have a better option (and liked the company anyway) so I told them that yes, I was coming. The day after another attractive company that had been sitting on my resume forever finally called me for an interview and I shut them down because I already gave my word to the offer I had accepted.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Without knowing your company or boss's attitude towards these types of things, I would say keep this in mind.

You are basically holding your company hostage if you tell them about the other offer and ask them to match or meet you somewhere.

Nothing wrong with that but keep in mind, even if they match or meet you in the middle, there may be resentment going forward that could cause trouble later. Maybe not I don't know your company.

Not saying it should be that way or it's correct just saying I have seen it happen.

One approach would be just to put in notice. They will obviously ask you why and you can tell them better financial opportunity. If they want to make you a counter offer it's on them at that point.

I guess all I am saying and you may already know this, don't go in there saying or implying I am leaving unless you give me XXX. Let them approach you about what they need to do to keep you.

If they don't do that you are probably better off going where they value you more anyway.

Good luck.

I agree with this whole heartedly. I wouldn't make any demands. I would decide if I was willing to leave, and if I was, I would explain that it's simply too much money to pass up and give notice. I would also make it clear that I didnt want to go but again, the money is just too much to pass up. If they offer you more, youre good. If they dont, they should at least understand and respect your decision enough to leave an open door if things dont work out at the new gig. Good luck with whatever road you decide to go down.

[guns blazing]

I'd prefer to be comfortable personally. That said I think it would be highly appropriate to demand a nice raise from your current employer. Showing loyalty will pay off in many ways and its rare to be loyal these days.

[rageeumr]

I think the crux is that you say "Assuming that everything is a push in terms of pros and cons between the two companies", but the fact is that they probably aren't, and those non-monetary factors can affect your happiness, whether you're cognizant of it or not.

The example I always give people about my job is freedom. I work out on the company clock nearly every day. A lot of days I eat lunch at my desk or work late and more than make up for it. But some days I don't. And no one is watching me and auditing my hours. I can go run errands during the day if I need to. If I get my stuff done, no one messes with me. I'd turn down a 25% raise in a heartbeat if they told me I had to be there 8-5 unless I got it cleared with a manager.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by rageeumr

I think the crux is that you say "Assuming that everything is a push in terms of pros and cons between the two companies", but the fact is that they probably aren't, and those non-monetary factors can affect your happiness, whether you're cognizant of it or not.

The example I always give people about my job is freedom. I work out on the company clock nearly every day. A lot of days I eat lunch at my desk or work late and more than make up for it. But some days I don't. And no one is watching me and auditing my hours. I can go run errands during the day if I need to. If I get my stuff done, no one messes with me. I'd turn down a 25% raise in a heartbeat if they told me I had to be there 8-5 unless I got it cleared with a manager.

You are describing my current situation perfectly. In fact, that's easily the biggest positive about where I'm at now. I would describe the rest of my current situation as average to slightly below average compare to my perception of the rest of my field. That's a huge positive, though. I plan on finding out if the new employer is similar in this regard before making a decision.

[KurtCobain]

Originally Posted by Ku Klux Klan 4 KC

Saul Good you are a pillowbiter

And you're probably an obese WOW nerd.

[Ming the Merciless]

Good luck....

I can't really offer any advice.....but just wish you the best.

[Dayze]

i left a stable job in Feb '08 for a new gig making 30% more/ new position to build upon etc.

By Oct 08/low point of the economy, new gig went bankrupt; office closed. Out of work for 6 months. finally took a job (the only offer I received in 6 months) for 42% less than my FEb '08 salary; couldn't keep up; foreclosed upon etc.

life has sucked for 2+ years; slowly improving though.

Granted, that was 2 years ago so maybe the economy and job market is better now etc. But, I'm basically done taking risks in that regard. those 2 years nearly killed me man.

I haven't had a job that didn't suck for over 16 years; so I figure i'll stay with the secure one that sucks.

Good luck dude; sounds like some tough decisions headed your way.